Inverter question

dsfdogs

I believe mine was manufactured in August 2017. So it seems a change was made between May and August and maybe that's why my label was handwritten. I seem to recall your discussion of the different fuses. 

Bayliss

Although not an inverter question, I am going to jump in here to share how the fuses on my 2019 320S Boondock Lite are configured and labeled.  I wrote to Creed at nüCamp, but he did not provide a particularly clear-cut or reassuring response to my inquiries, so maybe one or more forum members can shed some light on whether my DC fuses are correctly installed.

Below is a photo of how the fuses are installed.  Note that the handwritten label does not correspond with the fuses installed for circuits #1, #3, and #4:

 
I have reviewed @klenger's very detailed (and impressive) wiring diagrams.  He has the same year and model that I have, but he has circuit #1 labeled as a 3A fuse (mine is 7.5A), #4 as a 7.5A fuse (mine is 20A), and #5 as a 20A fuse (mine is 7.5A).  @klenger has possibly updated his drawings since I downloaded them back on February 23rd, but maybe he can confirm his drawing is accurate as to his converter.

This is Creed's response to my inquiry about the fuses and label:

"The labeling seems to be incorrect but the fuses are correct." 

Use of the word "seems" is not particularly helpful, and also makes me question his use of the word "correct" at the end of his short response.  Creed is probably a very busy man, and I didn't specifically request it, but I wish he would have clarified what each fuse is linked to.  That additional information would have provided some reassurance.  Unfortunately, after re-reading this thread, I am even more concerned/confused, and will likely need to trace each wire to determine what each is powering.

As for the AC circuit breakers, as depicted in the photo above, there are 6 on my converter (i.e., a main and five branch circuits), but the typewritten label (see photo below) makes it appear as though there are only 5 (i.e., a main breaker plus four branch circuits):



My question posed to Creed was:

"Although the AC breakers are labeled, the label identifies the far left 30A Main breaker and four branch circuits.  However, there are a total of six circuit breakers (i.e., 30-15-15-20-20-20-20 Amp.)  Should there be five branch circuits listed on the label?  OR, is the 15A associated/connected to the 30A breaker?  If so, what is the purpose of that particular breaker?  I am assuming from the label that the branch circuits are the four breakers on the right side of the bank of breakers.  Am I correct about that?"

Creed responded:

Main Branch: 30AMP

Branch #2: GFI Outlets

Branch #3: Alde

Branch #4: A/C

Branch #5: Fridge

He did not specifically answer my question about the 15A breaker (Branch Circuit #1) to the right of the 30A breaker, but I do see a notation on the converter that indicates, "CONVERTER INPUT IS ON A BRANCH CIRCUIT."  I am assuming that is the 15 A breaker immediately adjacent to the 30A breaker.  (If I recall correctly, a forum member recently posted that they were having an issue with their 30A breaker tripping, with the adjacent breaker tripping as well, which makes sense to me now that I have found that notation about the converter input circuit.)

Additionally, I recall seeing a photo of an earlier model converter, which only had 5 circuit breakers, but was labeled the same as mine.  Thus, I have concluded that nüCamp used old information to label the circuit breakers on my camper's converter.  I am curious whether other T@B owners have similarly mis-labeled circuit breakers and/or fuses (other than what has already been posted.)  If so, I may notify Creed to determine if that is something that needs to be rectified at the factory.

I am including the following forum members ( @klenger , @ScottG , @dsfdogs, @Awca12a , @BrianZ , and @N7HSG_HAM ) so they are notified of this post and may want to weigh in.  Thanks!!  (Greg) 

klenger

I’m not sure there is a “correct” fuse / CB arrangement used by nuCamp.  There seems to be a wide variation in layouts.   The AC circuit breakers are fairly simple.  On mine, CB 2 was the converter and cabin GFCI and galley outlet. CB 3 was the outside outlet and RH bed outlet.   The rest are Alde, Refrigerator, and AC.  For the DC fuses the best advice I have is to pull all the load fuses (not the 30 amp or 40 amp) and plug them back in one at a time and make your own map.  Use the drawing on my website as a starting point.   

Bayliss

Thanks @klenger.  You are probably correct re the arrangement.  However, I have wondered why you had a 3A fuse in slot #1.  All my wire colors (coming from the rear of the converter) are the same as your schematic, with the exception of Fuse #1.  Mine has a brown wire is brown; yours is labeled as being blue, but that may be a typo since the Fuse #3 wire is also labeled as blue.  Since nobody else has responded with a different suggestion or explanation, I will go ahead and see which circuits they protect.  Thank you for the suggestion.  (Greg)

dsfdogs

I just checked mine and I have five circuit breakers (30, 15, 20, 20, 20) which match the label. Does the manual for the WFCO say anything? Maybe also check the WFCO site? I also need to email a few times w/Creed to receive clear answers.

Bayliss

@dsfdogs , other than the general operation of the converter, the WFCO manual does not provide much information, except, as I mentioned above, the 15A branch circuit immediately to the right of the 30A apparently is the "CONVERTER INPUT."  I have not checked the WFCO web site, but I do not think that will resolve my questions, particularly as to how the fuses are arranged, because that is dependent on how nuCamp (or a different RV manufacturer using this same converter) has wired the camper/trailer and which size fuse they installed for each circuit.  It seems that all 2019 320S should be wired the same, which is why I was interested in how @klenger 's fuses are arranged.  It doesn't make sense from a manufacturing standpoint to do things differently on one camper from another for the same model year.

It sounds like your camper (a 2018 T@B 320S) had an earlier version of the converter (five circuit breakers instead of six.)  My guess is that your converter does not have a separate branch circuit for the converter input.  If you learn anything from Creed, I'm all ears.  He didn't really help me out much, but I don't want to keep bugging him.  (Greg)

ScottG

I also only have five AC branch circuits on my 2015. I've also noted some minor discrepancies in the labeling of both my 120V AC breakers and 12V DC fuses.

Wiring configurations are bound to change as things are updated and added. The WFCO itself is just a distribution box and with a few exceptions (main breaker and battery line) almost certainly doesn't care what is wired to what circuit.

In short, the only way to know exactly how things are connected is to carefully test it yourself by tracing wires (most are color coded) and methodically disconnecting circuits. Neither nuCamp nor WFCO will be able to provide a quick definitive answer for every camper out there.

Photomom

Olena said:

It would be nice to have separate power that is not linked to the T@B. I think I could justify a power source as a business expense, the T@B not so much.....

Olena, I bought a Yeti 400 (the lead acid one) and 100 watt Goal Zero solar suitcase last Black Friday. Somewhere in these threads you might find my post about my adventures using it with our ARB 12 volt fridge. Do the math and see if this setup would run your sewing machine as much as you’d like. It is a nice easy plug and play solution if it meets your power needs.

klenger

Note:  on my 2019 320 S the first 15 amp load CB (CB#2) was shared between the internal converter and the GFCI and Galley outlets.  CB #3 was used for the patio and bed outlets.   

Bayliss

Thank you, @klenger .

cameron

DougH said:

For the $100-200 lower power pure sine wave inverters that plug in our DC sockets, are there brands that work great and some not so much?  My camera and laptop only like pure sine wave (otherwise there's a unhealthy buzzing sound). 

If at all possible, find DC chargers for your notebook and camera. Going from battery to AC via an inverter is going to waste power, and then when you charge the camera or notebook, that is going from AC right back to DC.

For example, I use something like this for a Mac - https://smile.amazon.com/Charger-MacBook-Magsafe-Connector-A1278，A1181，A1184，A1344，A1330，A1342/dp/B06ZYPLZX2/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=magsafe+car+charger&qid=1554695395&s=gateway&sr=8-2

And I have something similar (USB-powered battery charger) for a camera.

If you can avoid running the inverter, especially for going DC -> AC -> DC, then that would save lots of power.

Also, the non-sine wave inverters really can destroy the cheaper AC->DC power converters that are quite common these days. (I've had this problem with battery backups in the office, for example.)

Cbusguy

Not a huge fan of anything goal zero.    There are equivalent solutions for much less $$$$

jkjenn

I use the Goal Zero Yeti 1000 and love it. It is a great solution to keep the ARB running, top off the T@b when solar is weak, charge drone and camera batteries, and charge up the laptop. They have outstanding customer service, too. 

BrianZ

@jkjenn, it does sound very handy to have. 

As far as recharging the T@B, GZ says "The least efficient way of using the battery in the Goal Zero Yeti is to use an AC-DC adapter off the AC ports"; but I realize everything is a tradeoff, so I guess it depends on your needs & priorities at the time.

BrianZ

Sorry I'm so late, @Bayliss, but wanted to add my breakers photo.  Not sure it helps, but still curious what you found out about what's on your fused circuits & what fuses you used.

Bayliss

Thanks @BrianZ.  I appreciate the photos.  I must admit that I have not yet gone back to trace the circuits, mainly because my camper is in storage when I am not using it.  When I have it, I am either making another modification or getting ready for a trip.  Additionally, I have put it on the back-burner since I have not been experiencing any electrical issues.  I should do it though, just to follow through and eliminate any concerns/questions.  Part of the difference in fuse sizes may be due to a different model refrigerator, LED lighting, etc., but that is just a guess.  (Greg)

Bayliss

@BrianZ, I am very late in getting back to you regarding your 05/26/19 inquiry about how my fuses are arranged/assigned.  I got around to figuring that out today.  Here is what I found (I apologize for some of the formatting, but that is the way everything prints out, even though I did not type it that way): 

            DC Circuit #1    Alde; Bath, Kitchen & Reading Lights            7.5A

            DC Circuit #2    TV/Radio                                                      15A

            DC Circuit #3    USB/12V Sockets                                          15A

            DC Circuit #4    Ceiling & Porch Lights; Refrigerator              20A

            DC Circuit #5    A/C & Ceiling Fans; Pump; Tanks; LPG          7.5A

            DC Circuit #6    Battery Charger                                             30A

            DC Circuit #7    Reverse Polarity Protection                            40A

The arrangement appears to be different, for the most part, from other configurations that I have seen posted by others.  As you may recall, three of the fuse sizes on my panel were mislabeled at the factory and they did not identify what circuits those fuses are protecting.  A bit unsettling, because it makes me wonder if nüCamp has properly configured the DC panel on my camper.  Additionally, they failed to identify what electrical items are on each respective circuit.  I believe @ScottG posted a thread two or three years ago about his fuses having been mislabeled as well.

The two 7.5A fuses cause me some mild concern, because I have not seen that size mentioned by others who have discussed the arrangement/amp size of their fuses.  However, looking at what those circuits include, Circuit #1 includes LED lights that use very little power.  Circuit #5 includes the holding tank sensors and LPG/Carbon Monoxide detector, which presumably also use very little power.  I suppose the good news is that the Refrigerator is on a circuit with a 20A fuse.  In the past, I believe that circuit only had a 10A fuse.  Also, the USB/12V Sockets are on a dedicated line with a 15A fuse, which may have been done to address problems that several T@B owners have had with the USB outlets failing.

********************

Below is how my AC circuits are configured.  I have no idea what Branch Circuit #3 (20A breaker) is for.  It does not appear to be controlling anything.  I have always been under the impression that Branch Circuit #1 has something to do with power to the converter itself, and that the GFI circuit is protected by Branch Circuit #2 on this newer 6-breaker converter.  (NOTE:  When I tested everything, I had the 12V battery disconnect switch set so that the battery was completely isolated from the AC system.)

MAIN Circuit                  30A

Branch Circuit #1           15A       GFI; A/C Fan; FanTastic Fan; Kitchen & Outside 110V Plugs; Lights; Propane-Carbon Monoxide Detector; Stereo; TV; Tank Sensors; USB Outlets; Water Pump.

Branch Circuit #2           15A       Alde; Rear Cabin 110V Plug.

Branch Circuit #3          20A       ????

Branch Circuit #4           20A      Air Conditioner (Danby)

Branch Circuit #5           20A      Refrigerator (Norcold N180-3X) 

Below is another photo of my converter panel and how it was labeled at the factory.  Regarding the fuse sizes, I just noticed (in the upper right hand corner of the photo) that the label indicates:  "Max Fuse Size 20A for DC CIR1-CIR4; Max Fuse Size for DC Cir 5-Cir6 30A."  Has anybody else noticed that?  The max for circuit 6 is 30A, yet it has a 40A fuse installed.  However, the label also specifies that the "Reverse Battery Protection" fuse is 40A, so I suppose it is not a concern.

Comments/concerns about any of the above information is greatly appreciated.  (Greg)