hot water

Dwiegel

It seems my alde system does not produce hot water pluged in to shorepower (120 V ) do I need to be pluged into 240V.  Thanks

Sharon_is_SAM

It would help if you gave us some more info.  TaB year, Digital Alde display?  Does it heat the water at all?  Does it heat the cabin?

You are appropriately plugged into shorepower if you plugged into the 30 amp outlet on the pedestal at a campground or if you have used an adapter to plug into a 120 ac 20 amp circuit at home.  Never use 240.

1.  Assuming other electrical appliances work and your shorepower is intact, check that the Alde is plugged into it’s own outlet under the bench.  Is that outlet active?

2.  Does the Alde display light up?  Is it set to the maximum electric (2 elements) on the display?  

3.  Is there glycol in the Alde expansion tank?

4.  Try using propane to run the Alde.

5.  Have you tried the boost mode?  The water heats to a set temperature as a default, but the boost mode will increase the temperature for 30 min. then returns to baseline.

6.  Have you adjusted the mixer valve?

Dwiegel

I guess I didn’t explain well enough. The Tab is plugged into a 240/120 outlet when ever you are at a place with full hookup. When my tab is at home it is plugged into 120. The water does not seem to get hot. How long before hot water gets the sink facet? I thought I waited long enough. It works with gas and it works with full hook up.

DougH

@Dwiegel ; I don't think I've read of anyone getting Alde heat and hot water when on propane or when plugged into an RV park 30A circuit..   but not able to get Alde heat and hot water working with an adapter plugged into their house when using the original Nucamp power cable and plugged into a 20A circuit.

If using a long extension cord or on a lower current circuit, could the Alde not be getting the 950W for elec heat on setting 1, or 950W*2 on setting 2 (boost)?   Maybe.  I get more hot water on gas (akin to 3000W).  But if I just turn on the Alde with elec (plugged into house), and turn on water heating, and wait 15 minutes, I'll get warm water at the sink / shower after a few seconds.  Doesn't last very long, but adequate for navy shower.

You could set the temperature up to max on the Alde (80F?) as if heating cabin, also turn on water heat, wait 10 minutes, then feel the tubes going into the convectors under the passenger side bench (T@B S Max).  If they're not hot then the Alde doesn't like your house circuit, or any extension cord you may be using. 

Verna

Please never plug your T@B into 240V. Your T@B is set up to plugged up into 120V only for electrical power. 

ScottG

@Dwiegal, the T@B is wired for 30A 120V service. It is not wired for 240V--even if you plugged into a 50A 240V receptacle at a campground, you would need to use an adapter that would draw from only one 120V leg of the service. Simply said, not being plugged into 240V service is not why your Alde is unable to heat water.

When I heat water with electric, it gets pretty hot in twenty or so minutes, even using just one of the two elements.

Be sure the receptacle you are plugged into at home actually has power. If that's not the problem, review Sharon_is_SAM's questions above and get back to us with more info. Good luck!

Sharon_is_SAM

@Dwiegel, I agree with Doug.  If your Alde heats water to your satisfaction on LPG or at a campground, but not at home, sounds like you are losing voltage from an extension cord or is your circuit only 15 amps?  I think you need 16 amps to run maximum electric on the Alde.  Somebody correct me if I am wrong, please.

Are you running anything else besides the maximum electric for the Alde?  

You will get the maximum heat on electric by the 2nd level of electric.  The "shower" icon boost will simply stop the circulation of glycol and the all the heat will be concentrated to heat the Alde water tank.  That only last for 30 minutes, so you have a longer period of hot water because you can mix less hot water at the faucet for the same temperature shower.

BrianZ

@Dwiegel, if you could answer Sharon's excellent questions, then someone may be able to help you solve your issue.

davel4wa

The 30A RV shore power connector cannot be plugged into a 240 VAC connector. They are not compatible. You would need an adapter to connect the 30A connector to a 50A outlet. The adapter would only pass one of the two 120V circuits in any case so you would only get 120V to the trailer anyway. If you managed to create your own adapter one phase of the 2 phase power  (just like the stove or dryer connection at your house) would be connected to the neutral or ground and should trip the breaker but not perhaps before you fry the electrical system in your trailer. That large 30A connector at the campsite is a single phase 120V connector not 220/240V.

Sierra

@Sharon_is_SAM It was my understanding that if I am plugging into my home plug I should only used #1 on the Alde Power selection and #2 was only for campground 30AMP. The Alde is barely heating on electricity at home.  

Sharon_is_SAM

@Sierra - house circuits can be 15 amp or sometimes 20 amp.  Even then, I understand that there is some variance to the upside.  So, even if you plug into a 15 amp circuit and run the Alde on #2 setting, it may or may not trip the circuit breaker in the house.  If you are only on #1 Alde hot water setting and the water seems not hot enough check the Alde control panel for the glycol and water temperatures in the service screen.  Also consider if you are giving enough time to heat, how cold is the ambient temperature, how cold is the starting water temperature, do you have the Alde Flow?

Sierra

@Sharon_is_SAM. Yes, I put on the propane first and it heated but then ran if on electric for an hour and the temperature did not go up. I have had it on 1 with the circuit breaker at 18 ( I had only just discovered that last year. Do you think that makes a difference ? We are usually boondocking so on propane)

We just had the glycol changed and the flow was making a terrible squealing sound. With help from someone on Facebook I turned down the pump and that appears to have helped the sound but have not yet tested the water heater again. It was not the consistent hot water we have had in the past. In the past we have had it super hot with the flow so you have to add hot water. So far it has just been hot in the first 20 secs then I can hold my hands there on full hot.
It's been about 7 -9 degrees Cel

Sharon_is_SAM

What is the water temperature on propane after an hour vs electric?

GregChris

I think I'm missing something here. Any 50 amp pedistle campground outlet I've ever seen is still only 120v.  A 240v power cord would be bigger around than your wrist.

ScottG

Sierra said:

...with the circuit breaker at 18 ...

@Sierra, can you clarify what you mean by this? Circuit breakers are not adjustable, and they are usually rated at 15, 20, or 30 amps.

Mickerly

Alde is complicated appearing, but simple in operation. The boiler unit is 3 concentric cans. The very inside is for the propane heating flame. The middle layer is where the glycol passes and has 2 electric heating elements. The outside is where the water is located.

Let's assume you are plugged in to a normal 110 outlet in your home. On the Alde panel there is a selection for "1kw" and "2kw". This is actually one heating element and 2 heating elements. When on normal 110 AC, always use "1kw." You have less power available than at a campsite. Below the selection for the number of elements is a triangle for water temperature. An empty triangle is a barely warm. A half triangle is moderate. A full triangle is very warm. We normally use the half.

If you don't want to heat the cabin, set the temperature, first line of the display, to a value at least 10 degrees below the cabin temperature. This will prevent the pump from circulating the glycol and heating the cabin.

Once the controls are set, give it an hour to heat the water on a cold day.

Sorry, I'm assuming you are about 2017 or newer with the digital display.

ScottG

GregChris said:

I think I'm missing something here. Any 50 amp pedistle campground outlet I've ever seen is still only 120v.  A 240v power cord would be bigger around than your wrist.

Typical 50 amp pedestal campground outlets are 240V. 30 amp and 20 amp pedestal campground outlets are 120V.

A 50 amp power cord would have four 6-guage wires in it. Certainly beefier than the 30 amp cords T@bbers use (which have three 10-guage wires), but still quite a bit smaller than your wrist.  :-)

Sierra

@ScottG there is a load monitor on the Alde panel 3020 that can be set for 18A 20A etc 

Mickerly

When we (T@Bs) use a 50amp pedestal, the link between our cord and the 50 amp  socket connects us to one side of the 240 volt line. We receive only 120 volts.

ScottG

Sierra said:

@ScottG there is a load monitor on the Alde panel 3020 that can be set for 18A 20A etc 

Ahh, ok--I though you were referring to the circuit breaker protecting the outlet to which your T@B is connected.

So, back to the problem...

North American Aldes have two 950W electric heating elements. Running them both (1900W) on 120V requires ~16 amps. As @Sharon_is_SAM noted above, this could trip your house breaker if you are plugged into a 15A circuit. However, a 20A home circuit should be up to the task (provided you are not running numerous other electrical appliances at the same time).

So, if you are plugged into a 20A home circuit, go ahead and try the 2kW setting (which activates both elements) and see if it makes a difference.

Keep in mind that the electric heating elements--even both of them running together--do not produce the same BTUs as the propane burner. As such, they may not maintain the water temperature as quickly as you are used to when boondocking with propane.

That said, the one-element-vs-two-elements question may be a red herring. There could be another problem yet to be diagnosed. Since having it serviced, have you tried running the Alde strictly on propane, as you do when you are boondocking? If not, that would be the first thing to try--if you get plenty of hot water that points to an issue with the electric heating elements. If you still don't get sufficient hot water, that suggests an issue with glycol circulation to the Alde Flow--a distinct possibility given the recent glycol change and the development of the squealing pump.

 

pthomas745

And, here is the deal on the Alde electrical elements, from the Alde manual and the Alde FAQ.

From the FAQ: each "element" (there are two of them) use 7.9 amps each.  So, on the 2KW setting it is using 15.8 amps.  If you try to run the Alde on "2KW" (both 7.9 amp elements) that is where the circuit breaker issue pops up. The Alde manual states the system "requires" a 20 amp circuit in that case. 

The other "distractor" in Sierra's case might be...not enough glycol.  The post mentions changing glycol, etc.  The recent track record of some of the dealer's "Alde Techs" has been sketchy.  Another cause of low heat from the system is...not enough glycol.  If it cannot fill the hoses or reach all the way to the farthest convector, that would equal low heat, also.

Cool the system down, find the glycol expansion tank, and check the level.

PS: the "Load Monitor" mentioned in the thread may not even be installed in our Aldes.  Many of the options on the Alde screen are not applicable to the Aldes we have.  I think the Alde Flow and the High Altitude mod may be the only ones routinely installed.

 

Sierra

Thanks everyone, FYI ours is the 2019 3020 with the high altitude. I have just been on the phone with the tech and at this point A- he thinks we may need a new mixing valve. B the glycol is not getting up to temperature.  The tank seems full enough. Cold it is just above min and at the Max when hot.
He was thinking the water wasn't getting out of the boiler perhaps? On the service screen the Boiler says "R027" and that is consistent, whether I run it on electricity or propane. He said it should be around 130. Does this make sense to anyone? I'm wondering if there might be an air bubble perhaps? 

Sharon_is_SAM

Is that a typo?  R027?  If not, is that an error code?

Sierra

@Sharon_is_SAM no not a typo. The tech asked me wanted to know what the number was. He was shocked it was so low. I'm not sure what the number means but as I said he was expecting R130. 

Sierra

We had to pay over $400 in ferry costs to get it the glycol replaced as no one local would do it. Hence, I can just take it back for him to look at. :( 

Sierra

@Sharon_is_SAM right maybe its supposed to be just 130. maybe it is a fault code??

Sharon_is_SAM

@Sierra - can you take a photo of the service screen with the glycol and water temps using propane after say 30-45 min.? 

If the glycol is heating, the water by default will heat.  Rule that out first.  Then if you still can’t get adequate hot water out of the tap, it may be the mixing valve.  

Sierra

This is the propane 

Sierra

This was last night on electric 2kw after quite a number of hours. Heating cabin was fine. Unfortunately didn't take photo of the glycol temp last night. I did try the hot water without the pump and it stayed  hot so pretty sure that is mixing valve is a problem. Alde Flow still making strange sounds and comes on. Says it's already at the temp IE  3 beeps and a solid icon  but continues to Humm loudly and Whine. I think I'll try raising the trailer then lowering it and see if it helps. Just strange it is all happening after the glycol change. 

Sharon_is_SAM

So, on propane, the Glycol is 149 F and the water is 136 F.  The second screen showing the PCB IS ???
Those temps are fine.  

Bayliss

@Sharon_is_SAM, I believe that is the "Printed Circuit Board" temp, but I have never noticed it on the screen.  49 degrees Celsius equates to 120 degrees Fahrenheit.  Seems hot for a circuit board, assuming that is what is being referenced.

All the 3020 manual states (that I can find) is:

"Overheat PCB: Failsafe in the heating system has been triggered. Check the fluid level in the expansion tank. It should be approx. 0.5 in (1 cm) above the Min mark when cool. Check that the heating system compartment is ventilated and that the vents are unobstructed. Do not stow items in the boiler compartment.