Good idea? Lithium Battery in T@B 320s front storage tub (or similar)

VictoriaP

NomadPilgrim said:

Where will all these lithium batteries go when they die? 

Well, the good news is, they’re less toxic than lead acid batteries. The bad news is, they still haven’t figured out how to fully recycle all the material used. They’re getting closer, though. 

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/03/25/innovation-boosts-lithium-ion-battery-recycling-rate-to-over-80/

Cbusguy

@NomadPilgrim I work for a major health system in engineering,   we use a huge number of lithium packs,   hundreds a week.   They all get recycled.    Your properly cared for Lithium battery should last 10 years in your camper.

So when it is done take to your local recycler

Tabnero

I have Battle Born Li. Love it. Lighter weight, more amp hours, nothing to take care of. Charged to 100% with Zamp solar, charged to 13.8 v with SFCO. Full charge on mine is 14.2

DigitalSorceress

I am seriously looking into doing an upgrade on my battery system (in my 320) and adding solar. After all the reading I've done, I'm thinking dual 100Ah LiFePO4 (battle born probably) in parallel would be my "dream setup" and would giveme more than enough storage. I'm thinking of making a custom battery box to put them in that would go on one side of the Boondock front rack... clearing out room for a second propane tank in the tub perhaps?

Only thing I worry about is that is about $200 worth of batteries so I'd want to make that custom battery box really secure... that and if I leave them outside then the inverter probably needs to go there too (much easier to run 110v from inverter back to inside than to run super heavy battery leads needed for inverter back).. Or I'd need to mount em inside.. but space inside is at such a premium... so many decisions to make...

Truthfully, I will likely just add a second standard deep cycle (which I already have) up front with an A/B switch (different capacity batteries should not go in parallel) for now.. and worry about the "dream setup" later.

N7SHG_Ham

@DigitalSorceress I think you left a zero off, two BB LiFePo4 batteries are $2000 nominally.

DigitalSorceress

N7SHG_Ham said:

@DigitalSorceress I think you left a zero off, two BB LiFePo4 batteries are $2000 nominally.

Yep you're right the ones I was looking at were $949 each .. so I rounded to 2000 and somehow dropped the zero - sorry

I have been thinking about my setup.. and the big thing I'm stuck on at the moment is that for any battery on the boondock front bumper.. I really need to protect the batteries from the elements AND secure them from at least casual theft (no theft protection of any reasonable weight is going to deter a determined thief with time and tools)

I was leaning toward just bolting a large-ish weatherproof tough plastic toolbox down.. I have a Rigid toolbx set I use as a toolbox and for $59, I could get something about the right size and with some locks.. fairly secure at least to casual theft...

But they're black and therefore will heat up a LOT

So, I thought about building custom enclosure out of some diamond plate aluminum.. I can't weld that though so it would need to be L brackets and rivits and will likely not be super weatherproof (enough to keep batteries dry probably but wouldn't want to risk an inverter

I THINK I may have an idea though.. a cheap marine cooler.. If I replaced the hinges with metal and bolted in a hasp it cold be secured enough.. and marine coolers are white for good sun reflection and insulated.. It would be very weatherproof (a bit too well sealed actually.. I'd have to "ruin" the cooler part by adding some venting in the back along with the holes for the cords... and bolts through the bottom

Still I am leaning toward this unless./until I am willing to design a custom diamond plate battery enclosure and get a welder friend to TIG weld a few key things for me.. which may be my long term as I think it would look REALLY good with teh Boondock.

Either that or go "full Mandy Lea" and replace the boondock tub with a big 60" wide toolbox (probably would have to remove the boondock "bike rack" type metal tubes at the back to do this .. and I kind of hate that idea. (Hate cutting the boondock's original bumper.. not the idea of the toolbox.. I think that looks pretty good on her 320)

Cbusguy

@DigitalSorceress we are doing exactly that,  removing the boondock platform and tub and replacing it with a large aluminum tool box.    More secure storage room to grow my solar, dry camp set up.   I would have ordered the trailer with out them and just the standard setup but was told no.   All I really wanted was the boondock axle tire combo.   

we have really been enjoying harvest hosts and think that will be our method of camping our way a crossed the country.    

DigitalSorceress

@Cbusguy  I will admit that the large toolbox does seem like a much better big picture fit for my needs if I want to extend boondocking (2 propane, 2 batteries, storage for my mini generator) ... I am just too chicken to think about removing the boondock platform yet... so I'm going to check out "marine coolers" to see if I can find one that will fit the battery, possibly a future solar charger and an inverter.. and go about wrecking that.. and keep the boondock platform intact for now.

But I'll be really curious about how your mod goes.. From the looks of the one Mandy Lea did on her T@B, it seems she cut the rails off and removed the tub to make room for the box.


This is the toolbox they used (though I found a different seller than they linked as it was a couple hundred cheaper)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001SF9UR0/?coliid=I10IQFTDTH9HWY&colid=3BPXCV38N2IP6&psc=0

It seems to have the depth/height to fit the propane ...

You are tempting me now...

VictoriaP

@DigitalSorceress It won’t fix the overall storage issue, but locks are available for battery boxes. This is just one example.

https://www.statetrailer.com/products.php?item=RV+BATTERY+LOCK+STRAP+12V&cat=E1&item_no=17099000&detail=true

People have fit two 6v batteries and a single propane tank into a Boondock tub. I’ve wondered if you could put a 30lb tank in there instead of the stock 20lb.

Alternatively, the lithiums (or sealed AGMs) can go inside under the dinette, along with solar charger and inverter.

Marceline

DigitalSorceress said: 

So, I thought about building custom enclosure out of some diamond plate aluminum.. I can't weld that though so it would need to be L brackets and rivits and will likely not be super weatherproof (enough to keep batteries dry probably but wouldn't want to risk an inverter

I THINK I may have an idea though.. a cheap marine cooler.. If I replaced the hinges with metal and bolted in a hasp it cold be secured enough.. and marine coolers are white for good sun reflection and insulated.. It would be very weatherproof (a bit too well sealed actually.. I'd have to "ruin" the cooler part by adding some venting in the back along with the holes for the cords... and bolts through the bottom

Still I am leaning toward this unless./until I am willing to design a custom diamond plate battery enclosure and get a welder friend to TIG weld a few key things for me.. which may be my long term as I think it would look REALLY good with teh Boondock.

Either that or go "full Mandy Lea" and replace the boondock tub with a big 60" wide toolbox (probably would have to remove the boondock "bike rack" type metal tubes at the back to do this .. and I kind of hate that idea. (Hate cutting the boondock's original bumper.. not the idea of the toolbox.. I think that looks pretty good on her 320)

How about putting the batteries inside the trailer?

DigitalSorceress

@Marceline Indeed I have thought about that.. if/when I go Lithium and I'm looking at $2000 worth of batteries I may... Lithium don't need the venting that AGM/GEL/SLA do.. but still there is a heat factor .. heating up the interior etc.. and there's precious little space as there is so I'd love to make the best use of the interior space.

It's a real trade off

For my own current project I have a spare Group 27 SLA Deep cycle lying around. I bought a $28 white cooler from WalMart and am going to strap that down to the boondock bumper... I'll wire it up to an A/B switch (replacing the normal cutoff)

If that works out OK, I'll actually cut some holes in it for venting and to run a 110v outside outlet to it and wire in my 1500w inverter so I have a source for fully off-grid AC (without the generator)

That is all cheap enough I can do it and then throw it away/replace it if/when I do something bigger/better/more.

Cbusguy has got me tempted to go full on replace the deck with a big toolbox... but I feel I might get a lot of bang for the buck with what I have for the time being.

pthomas745

If you don't want to completely remove your propane box, these aluminum storage boxes are quite secure.  These are from the famous "Bat Tab", but I borrowed the idea and had some made. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/2726/custom-diamond-aluminum-storage-boxes-for-outback

I did the same thing with slightly different sized boxes, but from the same company.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/64847#Comment_64847

Cbusguy

The issue is tongue weight,  adding all those extra boxes and not removing anything is an issue.   So you add two 6 volt batterys, you add boxes to lock them you add locks and wire and associated hardware your tongue weight is going to skyrocket.  especially if you are adding a second propane tank and more batterys.

My plan is to remove the boondock tub and platform,  replace with a full width tongue box,   remove lead acid batterys add lithium or two.....I think my tongue weight should remain very close to stock or maybe a bit heavier.   I think @klenger has a setup pretty close to what I am looking at.

No desire for a generator,   going to do my best to avoid carrying one.

klenger

^^  Thank you.  It's working out very well for me.  Yes, the setup was pretty much a wash, except when I add the generator.  When I do that, I try to load as much additional weight on the inside floor as I can.  I think the max tongue weight I've seen is ~260#.

N7SHG_Ham

I am already considering a big box for my new 400, there is no room on tongue to mount a generator and I want storage plus dual propane tanks so may make that mod down the road. Will of course need to ventilate the box but in the end way more storage.

DigitalSorceress

@pthomas745  Thanks for those links.. Sadly, the original posts linking to the product site were removed by admins for being against the advertising rules...  I msg'd the original poster to ask for the links..

Those look perfect and I can't find anything quite right.. closest I found were "underbed" tool boxes with front opening in 24x18x18 or so .. which would work but there are SO MANY really really cheaply made knockoffs and for whatever reason, the "real brands" are as expensive as just getting a 60" x19x21 Lund and replacing the whole thing...

My idea of a marine cooler worked well.. to a point.. except I didn't have time to fully add the locking hasp so I used tie downs to hold it shut (no latch).. well, I lost both the tie down AND the lid at some point .. guess it wasn't as tied as I thought..

Instead of spending yet more on another cooler which will be a "you'll do" I think I will just do mine right.

It's never easy is it?

DigitalSorceress

Yeesh.. there seems to be this one really shoddily made underbed box showing up all over amazon.. there are tons of negative reviews about how thin the aluminum is.. and It seems like it's just different names for the same one.. I can tell because there's an image of the dimensions and they mis-labeled one of them (The numbers on the page would make a box M.C.Escher would be proud of) .. their pricing is around $100 for them but based on the "name hopping" and the negative reviews on some, I'm forced to conclude I need to spend around $200-300 each on the boxes to get a solid brand.. At that price the Lund full 60"x19"x21" (I think that's the dimensions) and pulling the whole boondock bumper is looking better all the time.

I think I found a company who can do custom boxes.. maybe worth seeing what they'd charge to make me a 24x18x18 front opening box.

Cbusguy

@DigitalSorceress I am in the exact same spot.   Look local for your box as I found one I like at home depot of all places,   on amazon it was 699 and home depot it was 399.   I havent compared the bar codes yet,  but it looks to be the same box

TheTabster

Battle Born now makes the 100 Ah Lithium 12V in a self-heating option.
But to minimize footprint in the cramped tub and reduce tongue weight of a 2021 TAB 320S BD, I'm looking at a single Renogy 170 Ah Lithium vs (2) Battle Born 100 Ah Lithium.

The loss of 30 Ah from 200 Ah total seems somewhat negligible, but the advantages are:

(1) Renogy 170 Ah: 48.5 pounds, 6" x 14" footprint, $1,500.
Vs
(2) BB 100 Ah: 62 pounds, 13" x 14" combined footprint, $2,100.

Seems like the advantages here are way more compelling than the loss of 30 Ah - assuming the quality and longevity of both battery brands are similar? BB has a 10 year warranty, Renogy is 5 years.

Well informed opinions on the above are welcome and appreciated...

As far as the self-heating advantage of the new BB: does anyone have a good DIY solution for keeping a Lithium battery in the tub warm enough to charge during very occasional and brief cold spells while Boondocking?

Any particular aftermarket product with a proven track record?

Would it be crazy (and dangerous) to use those chemical hand warmer packets in the metal tub - just to get through a cold night?

VictoriaP

@TheTabster I suspect chemical handwarmers might not be sufficient. BattleBorn does make a heating pad that wraps around their original battery, so that or something similar might work.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/heat-pad-for-bbgc2/

Olena

I just bought an Enerwatt Lithium battery (a Canadian company - so cheaper for me to buy). The seller, Solacity, has a great detailed write up on their site about Lithium batteries which I found very educational. Here is the link: 

https://www.solacity.com/how-to-keep-lifepo4-lithium-ion-batteries-happy/

Oneota

We have ordered a 2021 320s which should be built in January.  We asked for a Battleborn battery mounted under the driver's side seat with the other electronics.  Not sure if this will happen at NuCamp or the dealer before we take delivery.

ontheroad

@Oneota...I believe the only batteries that are installed in a trailer by nuCamp is the 400...all others are installed by your dealer...last I'd heard.

MarkAl

Suggestion, because this is a non-standard place for the battery, I'd recommend you clarify with nuCamp. Otherwise depending on the dealer you may find a minor rat's nest of power cables running from the front to the bench area. Also unless installed with the battery space allowed for, there may not be space for it.

dbrislawn

I understand that Jenn Grover moved her two lithium batteries into a custom compartment built in front of the Alde heater.  I am looking at doing that very same thing to free up tongue weight and to add two Allpro storage tubs up front.  Am working on adding connections for second solar panel and 75/10 and some other mods, too, so using waste space makes sense absent some other issue.  Am conferring with my local RV mod expert.