Tekonsha Prodigy RF Wireless Trailer Brake Controller - Issue noted when towing

klenger

When I bought my T@B 320 S in January this year, I opted for the Tekonsha Prodigy RF Wireless Trailer Brake Controller because of the simplicity of the installation and no modifications to my tow vehicle (2019 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited V6).  For the most part, I have been pleased with the operation of the controller, but have noticed that it seems to immediately "grab" the brakes as soon as slight brake pressure is applied at very slow speeds.  I thought this was odd since there is really no deceleration happening, just application of the brake lights.  My understanding is that the controller is supposed to be "proportional" by use of accelerometers. 

Yesterday, while towing on the freeway, I was adjusting the temperature controls on my Jeep, and accidentally bumped and turned on the warning flashers, but did not realize it right away.  The trailer immediately started bucking, so I pulled over on the shoulder, finally noticing that the flashers were on.  I turned them off and the bucking immediately stopped.  It appears that because the brake controller does not directly sense application of the brake light switch, it uses the L and R turn signals (also the brake lights on a 7 pin tow wiring harness) to determine application of the brake lights.  When the brake controller sensed the L & R turn signals on at the same time, it interpreted this condition as repetitive application of the brakes and responded accordingly.  I find this situation most unsettling.  I have used brake controllers in vehicles towed behind motor homes for years, and they use the same interface to sense brake application, but require the turn/brake signal to be applied for several cycles before determining that the brake have been applied. 

Due to this issue, and just general poor brake operation, I will be removing the Prodigy RF Wireless Trailer Brake Controller from the T@B and installing a Tekonsha Prodigy P3 Trailer Brake Controller in the tow vehicle as a conventional brake controller.  

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has seen this issue, or would be interested in testing the operation of the Tekonsha Prodigy RF Wireless Trailer Brake Controller with the emergency hazard flashers enabled (in a safe environment).  This could be done at slow speeds, even in a parking lot.

MikeJulieAdventure

Hi Klenger,

I have a 2019 Wrangler Rubicon 2.0L First thing I had to laugh a little as I am constantly bumping the hazard lights while making temperature adjustments (Wrangler design flaw). Thank you for sharing your experience on the braking system as I am currently shopping for a brake system for our 2020 T@B 320S (delivery June). I was looking into the Curt Bluetooth system but will love to hear peoples experiences.

Happy Monday!

Mike

Travelin3D

I will also be taking delivery of a new 320 very soon and was set on using the Tekonsha RF. It has always gotten good reviews and I'm surprised that I haven't seen this mentioned before.  I went to the e-Trailer site and they specifically note that "the Prodigy RF cannot distinguish between hazard lights and brake lights. If you turn on your flashers while using this controller your trailer brakes will pulse."  There is no mention of any way to override this from happening (maybe temporarily switching off the controller?).  Maybe I will reconsider and go with the P3 instead. Finding a spot to hang something under the dash is a bit of a pain, though.

mreric

according to the note in the E-trailer website it is part of the function-   or in this case i would call it flaw.   i havent had to use my flasher with it.     but i have been considering the Curt wireless Bluetooth unit 

ADRawli

I must admit that I thought I knew about this issue and had tested before installing the RF, but I’m no longer so sure right now.  When I first “tested” the controller before final install, I only checked to make sure the flashers on the trailer worked when I turned on the emergency flashers from the TV.  They did, and my mind was put to rest, and I mounted the RF to my trailer frame.  But... my brakes might have been pulsing too.  I just did not check that (forehead slap), as I wasn’t moving at the time.  Dang...now you’ve got me worried again.  I’ve loved the RF otherwise. 

Cbusguy

Makes me glad I chose old school hardwired,    took me a couple of hours for the install.     Seems like time well spent now.

Sharon_is_SAM

Good to know regarding the emergency flashers.  We love our Prodigy RF controller.  @klenger, we have dialed back the brakes to 3-4 and no longer have grabby brakes.

lkc001

Now that is very concerning-- that sounds like an accident waiting to happen.  I'm glad I have a hard wired controller Tekonsha P3-- I'm very happy with it.

ScottG

I don't have that controller, but I have noticed the brake grab at very slow speed--particularly when coming to a stop on a slight decline. Adjusting the brake drums (as well as the controller) seems to have solved that problem. Ergo, I don't think that is necessarily an issue specific to your wireless controller

There's more recent discussion about brake adjustment here.

mreric

i had no idea of this flaw before the purchase.    but if brake controller had some type regulation - this flaw would not pass the test and be ready for sale to the consumer as a safe product.      imagine.   we have technically render our emergency lights useless during towing

Marceline

mreric said:

i had no idea of this flaw before the purchase.    but if brake controller had some type regulation - this flaw would not pass the test and be ready for sale to the consumer as a safe product.      imagine.   we have technically render our emergency lights useless during towing

In quite a few states it's ILLEGAL to have your hazards lights on while you're driving down the road.
You're supposed to use them when you're stopped or when you're in the process in stopping for an obstruction. 
The only time I use them while towing is:
1) I've had to pull off the side of the road to check something on the trailer
2) There's an obstacle directly ahead of me (traffic jam) and I don't want to get rear-ended.

What the heck are people using their hazards for that doesn't involve braking?

https://blog.firestonecompleteautocare.com/driving/when-use-cars-hazard-lights/
https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/hazard-light-use/

klenger

Marceline said:

What the heck are people using their hazards for that doesn't involve braking?

https://blog.firestonecompleteautocare.com/driving/when-use-cars-hazard-lights/
https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/hazard-light-use/

As stated in my original post, I accidentally touched the hazard flasher switch while changing the AC temperature setting in my Jeep Wrangler.  The result was a dangerous braking situation caused by poor design of the brake control system.  If I have been towing in poor weather conditions, the outcome could have been much worse. 

I was looking at the Tekonsha brake controller comparison chart and Tekonsha lists the P3 as the 2nd best in performance, only topped by the RF model which I have now.  It appears that Tekonsha ranks their performance by price alone, not by actual functionality.  

dsfdogs

@klenger have you tried to contact Tekonsha? Or Q&A on their website? Maybe there is an explanation or solution.

Verna

I truly would recommend contacting the manufacturer.  

I was approaching stopped traffic on an interstate last week and I turned my flashers on to warn those behind to be aware of something going on ahead of them. While my RF model display does flash, the brakes do not “flash” or “pulsate” at the same rate as the 4-ways. 

In fact, every morning before I start out, I perform a full Circle of Safety with my headlamps and 4-ways on so I can test all of the lights, windows, tires, cargo doors, etc., and, yes, the RF display flashes then, too, which is how I discovered the flashing on my first drive.

ADRawli

@Verna So it may not be that all of us with the RF have the same issue.  I’m anxious to try the moving test this weekend after I free our T@B from its interim camp purgatory (storage shed). 

klenger

I don't remember seeing this statement on the etrailer.com website when I ordered my brake controller.  It may have been added since I purchased mine.  I don't know if I would have purchased it had I known of this issue.  The statement sounds rather benign, but in reality is quite dangerous.  I have since purchased and will be installing the Prodigy P3 this weekend and will remove the RF model.  

• The Prodigy RF cannot distinguish between hazard lights and brake lights. If you turn on your vehicle's hazard lights while towing with this controller, your trailer brakes will pulse.

Marceline

klenger said:

Marceline said:

What the heck are people using their hazards for that doesn't involve braking?

https://blog.firestonecompleteautocare.com/driving/when-use-cars-hazard-lights/
https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/hazard-light-use/

As stated in my original post, I accidentally touched the hazard flasher switch while changing the AC temperature setting in my Jeep Wrangler.  The result was a dangerous braking situation caused by poor design of the brake control system.  If I have been towing in poor weather conditions, the outcome could have been much worse. 

I was looking at the Tekonsha brake controller comparison chart and Tekonsha lists the P3 as the 2nd best in performance, only topped by the RF model which I have now.  It appears that Tekonsha ranks their performance by price alone, not by actual functionality.  

My reply wasn't to your post. My reply was to mreric, who said, "we have technically render our emergency lights useless during towing," which I don't think is a reasonable response to this issue.

My point is that is seems like the danger only exists if a driver is using the hazards when they shouldn't be using the hazards. There are all kinds of things in a vehicle that are dangerous if they're used improperly.

mreric

just note that this is also the issue with the Curt wireless controller 

 "by: William03/24/2019

We just took out the curt echo on a week long camping trip. Overall it worked well and as advertised but there was one incident that seemed dangerous. We were going down a particularly steep grade and wanted to turn on our emergency flashers because we were going very slow. When we turn on the emergency flashers the brake controller started breaking In conjunction with the pace of the lights flashing. We were super confused and couldn’t get it to stop because we didn’t realize what was going on until we got to the bottom of the hill. This felt like a really dangerous situation. We were driving a 2009 Acura MDX towing a 19 foot Jayco trailer. 613895

Comments

I spoke with Curt about the trailer brakes pulsing with the hazards and according to Curt, this is a function of the wireless nature of the controller. With an older wired-in controller, a pulse prevention device could be used but because this is a wireless device it wouldnt work. Curt states that there isnt a solution for this issue.

-- Mike L - 03/28/2019

Travelin3D

I just sent an email to Tekonsha tech support asking about this issue and also about whether the hard-wired P3 would have the same problem.  I will report back if/when I hear something.

It's disappointing to hear about this as I was ready to install one when my T@B arrives - now I'm not sure which way to go.  Though better to know about it now rather than later, I guess.

tabiphile

Travelin3D, from my experience the P3 does not exhibit this issue.
It's been said before, if you have a pre-wired TV and if you do not plan to tow with another TV, the wireless unit does not offer any advantages..
Never mind the concept of a wireless safety system, not being able to use the hazard indicators seems like an extraordinarily unsafe compromise.   

klenger

I disagree on the statement that this cannot be fixed and is the nature a wireless system.  I have had a number of vehicles that I towed behind motorhomes that used brake systems similar to this, but installed in the towed vehicle, and never had this problem.  A reasonably simple timing circuit that checked for a steady state 12 VDC on the L and R turn signals would prevent this problem.  The reason that the problem does not exist in a conventional "hard wired" brake controller is because the controller senses brake application directly from the brake pedal switch, but this signal is not connected to the 7-way connector, and therefore not available to a trailer based controller.  

BTW, the whole concept of the "RF wireless" brake controller is more hype than reality. The only wireless aspect of the system is the connection from the hand-held control unit to the brake controller, but the wiring from the tow vehicle to the controller is still hard-wired copper.  The "wireless" controller works the same whether the hand-held controller is plugged in or not.  You simply can't manipulate the controller w/o the hand-held control unit. 

What's really sad is that the wireless controller is at least twice the price as a conventional "Prodigy P3" controller and in some cases, considerably more work to install. Unfortunately, I was fooled by the hype and bought into it.  Now I have to spend upwards of $180 to replace it (partially because I shortened the 7-way cable when I installed the wireless controller and now have to replace it).

My wireless controller will go on eBay if anyone here is interested in it after all this discussion.  It is in excellent condition and works "as advertised". 

Travelin3D

@tabiphile, thanks I agree. My TV is a new Ascent and it is pre-wired so as long as I can mount the unit in a reasonable location I may just go with the P3.

klenger

Travelin3D said:

@tabiphile, thanks I agree. My TV is a new Ascent and it is pre-wired so as long as I can mount the unit in a reasonable location I may just go with the P3.

Check to see if they make a pre-wired cable for your vehicle.  If so, it's a very simple installation.  

Travelin3D

@klenger, Subaru actually supplies a cable with the car when you have the tow package. I assume the end that plugs into the controller is a standard plug.  I'll just have to find a mounting spot that's accessible but not a knee-whacker.

Cbusguy

@Travelin3D there is no possible way for the hardwired brake module to have the issue as it takes it's input directly from the vehicles factory tow wiring or directly from the brake pedal wiring and it uses a separate wire from the controller all the way to the brake motors.

 the issue with the wireless is it takes a lamp input and makes assumptions based on the lamp voltage.    Turn signals and brake lights often share the lamp lamp filament,   One lamp on the driver has the turn signal on,   both lamps on the driver is applying the brakes.

The fix is when climbing a long hill and feel the need for hazards is to turn off the brake controler or dial it back to the point is has a minimal impact.    

It is a compromise solution at best.......

@klenger  a timed delay?   how can that work?   a jackknife happens is split seconds.    Looking beyond the T@B world these wireless controllers are used on rigs weighing tons more.   Then we delve into the impact this has on TV's with or without ABS.     

Sharon_is_SAM

We just picked up our TaB from storage.  We tested our Prodigy RF brakes at a controller setting of 4 and at 7 at a speed of 20, 30, and 35 mph with the emergency flashers activated. The emergency flashers did not illicit any braking.  One question @klenger, do you have a full 7 pin including the brake wire connected, or is the brake wire to the 7 pin absent/disconnected?  

ADRawli

@klenger @Sharon_is_SAM. We too picked up our 400 yesterday and although I could hear a buzz when I put my ear near the trailer tire while parked with the flashers on, I did not feel any pulsing when towing at 35-40mph after turning on the flashers.   My brakes seemed to be working fine otherwise, so now I am not sure what to think. With a true full 7 pin connection, could it be the Prodigy RF is smart enough to know there is no braking signal even though the signal for the flashing lamps is being sent?  

klenger

@Sharon_is_SAM and @ADRawli:  My Jeep does have the factory tow package with 7-pin wiring harness.  Because I did not have a brake controller installed in the Jeep, the brake signal wire (usually the blue wire) to the 7-pin harness would not have been connected to anything.  I suspect that the reason we are seeing different affects with the hazard flashers on is that some vehicles make flash at longer or shorter durations that the Prodigy RF is sensitive or not sensitive to.  In any case, if it works for you and you are happy with it, then travel on. 

WilliamA

It is entirely possible that the variations in experiences with RF controllers is the cycle frequency of the vehicles'  flasher.  Some are quicker, some slower.  I don't doubt but RF controllers have some sort of discrete circuitry to try and hide that foible but it's only so good and must err on the side of caution.  To me, the brake circuit is the sacred cow of my safety system.  I lie awake at night thinking of the imagined nightmarish conversations of wifi brake controllers:

"Was that a brake command? Or just Hank Williams on single side band?"

 For me?  No thanks.  I'll have a large order of hard-wired please....To go...

WilliamA 

Sharon_is_SAM

As it turns out, the Prodigy end does not have a wire to accept a signal from the brake wire at the 7 pin harness.  

@klenger, is it possible that when you shortened the Prodigy 7 pin you shorted something?  I hate to see you invest in a whole new system if you can repair the RF brake controller.

klenger

Sharon_is_SAM said:

As it turns out, the Prodigy end does not have a wire to accept a signal from the brake wire at the 7 pin harness.  

@klenger, is it possible that when you shortened the Prodigy 7 pin you shorted something?  I hate to see you invest in a whole new system if you can repair the RF brake controller.

This problem has been reported by other users also.  I'm sure my wiring was fine.