Budget Built-In Surge Protector

ScottG

I mostly dry-camp and have done without a surge protector for the last four seasons. However, despite my common refrain of living dangerously, I do see the wisdom of having one. Problem is, I want one that is built-in but doesn't clean a week's pay from my wallet.

I'm pondering incorporating a basic (i.e., less expensive) portable unit inside the trailer. This could be done by adding a compatible plug and receptacle on the incoming 30A line, or even by lopping the ends off the surge protector and simply hard wiring it in under the bench.

Anybody try this yet? I can't see any electrical reason why it would not work. Anything else I'm missing here with regard to functionality? Are the cheaper surge protectors ($100 or less) even worth the bother?

(And yes, I understand that this would almost certainly void the warranties on both the unit itself and the protected equipment.)

Thanks!

MuttonChops

I had considered the same type of installation.

Decided the benefit was not worth the effort.  Benefit being one less thing to deal with and no one would steal it.

Problem for me, would not be able to see the protector lights with out opening the driver side wheel well - - - and I store a bunch of stuff on the driver side seat - - -

So I deal with the extra thing and will just buy another if/when it is stolen.

TerryV6

This seems to be about the cheapest outside way to go....

• Protect your electrical equipment from improperly wired electrical boxes
• Diagnostic lights indicate faults before you connect your electrical cord
• Voltage analyzer with surge protection up to 1050 Joules
• 30 Amp Male (NEMA TT-30P)/30 Amp Female (NEMA TT-30R)

Seems like its better than nothing imho...

TerryV6

We used to park the camper in the drive when not in use and sometimes hook it up to the outside plug on the house.  During this time, we bought a surge protector/analyzer which we used when camping.  We didn't use it at home.  One afternoon, my wife went out to enjoy some alone time and listen to music while doing some reading.  All of a sudden I got a phone call saying that she could not leave the camper.  I ran outside and was told that she received a mighty zap from the door handle.  I let her out, of course, and put our protector into the plug and then hooked up the camper.  The protector wouldn't let the juice flow and said I had an open ground.  Doing some research, I found this:

the danger of a open ground is that if the neutral or common wire in the post or camper is not perfect , you can get what is called a hot skin , that is were the camper becomes live with power , if you touch the camper and stand on the ground you could get zapped dangerously hard , using a power post that is not right is not safe ..

Naturally, I made an appointment with an electrician and he came out and ran a new wire to the box.  ( I don't mess with the boxes...)

This might convince you to look further into electrical protection...

Bayliss

You can learn all about hot-skin/contact voltage here:

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-hot-skin-shock-recap/

ScottG

Electrical wiring rule #1: Never become the path to ground.

I hadn't given the "hot skin" consideration much thought, though it makes sense. Although it is less about surge protection than it is about circuit verification, it makes the argument that circuit verification may be even more important from a personal safety perspective.

Back to surge protection... I do like colorful lights (and the information they convey) so @MuttonChops makes a good point about not being able to easily monitor the unit status when it is buried under the bench. IIRC, some of the true built-in units offer an external monitor for this purpose.

I also like the compactness of the little unit @TerryV6 showed above (which apparently doubles as a circuit checker). Do you have this, Terry? When attached to your power cord, does it stick out enough to give you any trouble closing the weather lid on the pedestal box? And what is the model and where did you find it?

TerryV6

Well, we didn't pay this much for it.  I really watched the sales.  Also, we cable it to the post for security...  I'm sure there is always someone to say, I wouldn't have bought that.... but we did.  Anyway, I'm sure there are smarter people like Verna or Jenn that will give advice...


https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Industries-Portable-Protector-EMS-PT30X/dp/B01N0W4CZ8/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=progressive+industries&qid=1557429943&s=automotive&sr=1-1 

For less, the one I mentioned earlier was reccommended by someone here and it seemed to do the job.  We own that one too....  Sometimes our bigger one has problems with the poleplug and we still use our little yellow guy...

Verna

@TerryV6, I actually had a much simpler surge protector for over 3 years, using nothing on my first two teardrop, other than GFCI circuits. 

Yes, now I have the built-in Progressive Industries EMS and it is a great accessory. While I don’t always look at the display, it is in a cargo door opening next to the electrical cord connection. 

You have a good portable EMS, so don’t sell yourself short on that purchase. 

JanandDave

@TerryV6

We bought one of those yellow Camco circuit analyzers. On the third time we used it, it tripped the post circuit breaker immediately upon insertion (T@B not connected). Tried it three times with the same result. Then tried it on several empty campsites with the same result. Since we had camped in the very same spot before with no problems, we just connected the T@B without it, and had no problems.

It was less than two months old, so I contacted Camco about a warranty replacement and never heard back. $50 bucks out the window.

We no longer patronize Camco. 

tybladesmith

Saving money on family safety is not cost effective, IMHO. 

Amazon Prime $229 and it will not be stolen off the power pole.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Industries-EMS-HW30C-Electrical-Management/dp/B002UC6RSA/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=HW-30C&qid=1557441515&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
 
I mounted this PI EMS-HW30C under the drivers side bench and mounted the remote to the swing arm of the TV with wire ties. With the TV stowed the LEDS cannot be seen in the dark.

Sharon_is_SAM

Smart place to mount the remote monitor!

Travelin3D

That's a good idea @tybladesmith. I'm having one installed in my new (coming soon) 320 and will try to put the remote in the same spot.

klenger

tybladesmith said:

Saving money on family safety is not cost effective, IMHO. 

Amazon Prime $229 and it will not be stolen off the power pole.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Industries-EMS-HW30C-Electrical-Management/dp/B002UC6RSA/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=HW-30C&qid=1557441515&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
 
I mounted this PI EMS-HW30C under the drivers side bench and mounted the remote to the swing arm of the TV with wire ties. With the TV stowed the LEDS cannot be seen in the dark.

I mounted mine on the other (aft) side of that bulkhead and mounted my inverter on the forward side. 

ScottG

I think we are still talking about two different things, here. Surge protectors protect equipment. Circuit analyzers may protect equipment and people by revealing improperly wired receptacles. While typical surge protectors may provide provide both functions, a surge protector is not necessarily required to simply check a circuit for proper connections.

Regardless, At the very least you have convinced me to throw one of these in the camper, or maybe even check the pedestal with my multimeter (which I always carry) before hooking up.

tybladesmith

@ScottG, you are correct that surge protectors protect equipment,  and circuit analyzers test for properly wired receptacles. One other thing the PI EMS (Electrical Management System) does is continuously monitoring for voltage spikes and brownout. On a hot day when all the AC in all the Class A motorhomes come on this device will disconnect your camper from low voltage and wait until acceptable voltage returns, protecting your AC compressor, even if you are not at the camper.

https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

Using a circuit analyzer to test the pedestal receptacle before the camper is backed in will save time and heart ache.

I am not affiliated with Progressive Industries but have a lifetime of industrial electrical experience and appreciate real world solutions.

ScottG

So how susceptible is the converter (and its DC output) to AC power surges or brownouts?

The air conditioner is the only thing that uses 100% AC power, and mine has been removed. The Alde and fridge can use AC for their heating elements, but their electronics are all 12V DC. Of course everything else (lights, fan, pump, entertainment) are all strictly DC, so any detrimental effects would theoretically be secondary to converter damage.

tybladesmith

@ScottG There have been a number of posts and threads of converter failures. 
Does anyone have experience with converter damage and its cause?

An EMS costs almost the price of an air conditioner. But if an AC unit is not installed maybe a circuit analyzer is all you need Scott. 

ScottG

@tybladesmith, that's kind of what I'm wondering. Your earlier comment about damage to the A/C compressor made me wonder what exactly I would be protecting.

On the surface is does seems like surges or brownouts could potentially damage the converter, but the inner workings of that beast are a little out of my pay grade. I know there have been some failures, but the cause of those failures is not usually clear.

I did find this adapter that could be used with an ordinary circuit tester to quickly check 30A RV receptacles.

tybladesmith

Good thinking @ScottG, that should get the job done! 

Cbusguy

While the light tester will check polarity and make sure everything is wired appropriately it doesn't check voltage.     a Brown out will tear your equipment up as much as an over voltage.    

NomadPilgrim

@ScottG converter or inverter? I'm trying to follow this thread. I'm on my second WFCO in 4 years, no explanation as to why the first one died. I seldom camp with power but am this week and the WFCO fan is always on. Not sure why. I'm looking for an easy and cheap surge protector solution too. 

ScottG

@NomadPilgrim, I was asking about damage to the converter. I don't have an inverter.

Since the converter is an electronic device directly powered by 120V AC, it stands to reason it could be susceptible to damage from power surges and other electrical interruptions, but I was wondering if anyone could confirm that with experience, or further elaborate on the actual degree of risk.