Camper Drone

TerryV6

I figured this would be a good place (products and accessories) to start a discussion about these.  With the "Prime" weekend, I saw some less expensive drones being offered with some of the basic features that the good ones have, a fair camera, gps, auto return, stabilization etc.  The good ones are quite pricey. I almost bought one for little money just to play with.  I thought it would be cool to have an aerial shot of our camper and some neat videos of features we are camped near.  Then I looked into useage restrictions.  First, a lot of campgrounds do not allow it.  Also fellow campers might object.  Of course small ones don't need FAA registration.  So... I pulled my finger back from the keyboard and the "Buy" button.  I am still interested, but even $200 is not an inexpensive purchase.  I wonder what people think about these "drones".  My oldest brother thinks they should be banned.  grin...   At the 2018 Nucamp rally, I remember someone using one for a campground shot..

DenisP

I have a Spark that I received as a Christmas present. After some research and recent experience, there are many area which you are prohibited from flying.  No national parks or areas controlled by the Park Service, many State parks and campgrounds have prohibitions, Fort Wilderness is a no go.... just returned from a cross country 9500 mile trip and only used the drone twice. 

JohnDanielsCPA

I love the idea of a drone, but find there are more negatives than positives.  That is, many people are not responsible how they use these.  They fly them over people’s houses or campsites (both private places), thus invading their privacy.  They fly them early in the morning or late at night, which adds just one more element of noise polution to our lives.  They use them to taunt our pets.  They create dangerous situations; (running into cars, disrupting aircraft, running into electrical lines, etc.). And the list goes on.  All this to give someone a birds eye view of their surroundings.  Unfortunately, you can’t regulate stupid behavior.  Despite rules as to where you can or can not fly these, people will break the rules, or not use common sense.  I think drones in the hands of the public are a public nuisance.

cmac

Sounds like a target for a shotgun!

TerryV6

I don't own a shotgun and seeing them in the hands of people who break the rules, are a public nuisance.  Obviously those people and the ones who use drones or other RC controled aircraft irresponsiblely should get together for a meet.  

Verna

I can honestly say that I have been bothered by a drone (why me in my middle 60’s?) in a campground. I moved, it moved got a better look, more than once. Yes, it was invading my space.  One obscene gesture to it and me stomping h to the road to see who was using it was all it took to disappear. 

DougH

The tiny Zerotech Dobby and larger Parrot Anafi are both very quiet.  Former is good for quick 4k snapshots (smaller than your hand), but needs a repeater to get to any height or distance.  The Anafi has much greater range and speed, but costs more too. Both do follow me, pre-planned flyout or orbit camera work.  I've got the Dobby and the larger old Bebop 2 from Parrot now, and would never fly it in a campground, or with anyone within a quarter mile.  It's louder, heavier, and just not the risk of damage or being a nuisance. But on BLM or state parks or natl forests where not disallowed drones are great for capturing the beauty of an area (as long as wildlife are not disturbed).  I plan to trade my Bebop in for an Anafi once it gets to the second generation and any strange first edition bugs get worked out.  4k video from the Anafi is said to rival Phantom 4, at a lower price, much quieter than the Mavic, and without the nanny restrictions DJI has been baking in.

cmac

When I was participating in the 2016 CMP Rifle Matches in OKC the sponsor used a drone very carefully to get some very interesting photos of the firing line when folks were actually firing their vintage rifles at the firing line at 200 yard targets, during rapid fire - 10 shots in 70 seconds - prone position - fun photos of empty brass cases in flight during ejection after firing - usually M-1 Garand rifles.

The drone flyer always made sure to have enough elevation to stay out of the line-of-sight and high enough not to be a distraction - don't want to make 25 shooters with rifles made at your drone!

DigitalSorceress

I'm into photography and have thought about getting a quad-copter myself, but .. I notice so many places are denying them (likely due to a few bad apples spoiling the whole barrel) that I'll pass.

Were I to get one Id likely build my own though.. more fun and interesting to DIY (MicroCenter has all sorts of parts and kits etc...)

morey000

The DJI Spark would be a good choice.  ~$350.  there are cheaper ones, but they're not as good.  and better ones- but way more money. Solid, reputable company that is kinda' 'owning' the drone market right now.

TerryV6

That’s what another very knowledgeable person told me.  Also the Tello or  a Syma drone for a starter model.  I watch how we spend now a days.  I was tempted by the lightning deal price of $140.  Hate to buy things we end up not using.  I still have a generator in the garage that we still haven’t used in 3 years.  Wife said we needed it... I bought it...

The drone seemed like a hot button topic.  My brother thinks I would use it to spy in someone’s window, Go out to the airport and go aircraft hunting, or spoil the peace and quiet of the wilderness.  I could just look into a victron (sp?) battery monitor.  Or save my money for my electric bill after running the AC all week......

pthomas745

People have a very negative idea of the drones, but somehow love the video and photography from them.  Ignore the naysayers, follow the rules, be polite and buy it.  And post the pictures and videos for us.

jkjenn

Warning: Super long post. My apologies.

Drones are here to stay, although the leash on the hobbyist just got a little tighter through some new FAA rules covering those who fly for fun. Drones are being used to improve the safety of many jobs as well as to aid in many life saving activities like search and rescue and wildfire monitoring. In addition, there is widespread use of drones in agriculture, mapping, construction, and real estate.



Full disclosure: I own a drone and possess a Part 107 certificate. If you use a drone for any part of business, selling photos, social media promotion of your business, or in exchange for anything related to business, the FAA considers you a commercial drone pilot and you must be a Part 107 certificate holder to legally fly your drone for business. I primarily I use my drone for landscape photography and will occasionally fly it to shoot photos of the campground where I am staying to add to reviews. I do this when it is legal, and try to do it at a time and in a manner that will not disturb others. However, I am aware that there are those who will be disturbed just knowing I do this and I can offer you no help but the recommendation to find a therapist.



For those who do not own a drone and finding them annoying or intrusive:

1. Shooting at a drone is a federal offense. Plus, really? Does it really make you feel like more of a human to shoot a drone and risk damaging injury to people, animals, or property? Be better. If you think the drone pilot is violating the law, ask she or he what they are doing or call the police. You just might make a friend. The drone pilot is very likely to offer to let you see what they are shooting, if you ask nicely.

2. Regarding privacy: People think they own the airspace above their property. They do not. They have the right to a reasonable distance above their homes or other structures, but they do not own the space. The FAA regualtes all airspace, not local authroities. Local municipalities have implemented their own laws and those laws have been overturned. States and local authorities do have the right to enforce existing privacy laws and in most cases, existing privacy laws are sufficient. Legally, there is no expectation of privacy if you are on public lands (National Forest, BLM, etc..) This is true whether using a drone or a cell phone camera. 

A little commentary for you to consider: in many cases, anxiety over drones invading privacy or overdone. Most drones come with a wide angled camera, not a zoom and most people are looking for a wide angle view. So, the mere presence of a drone near you, means they likely find the whole scene interesting. For the most part, cameras able to zoom and truly invade your privacy tend to be more expensive and less likely for the average Joe to spend money on. That being said, yes, there are issues of the random drone spying on people, hovering 50' over someone's yard or close to their window. If this happens, do yourself and the cause of civility a favor and ask the drone operator what they are doing? You might be surprised to find out that it is a commercial drone pilot taking photos of your neighbor's property for a real estate listing or someone hired to do mapping.

So let me throw out some information to help everyone stay safe and legal (Source: FAA) for hobbyists. If you fly commercially, you should know, already or know where to find out what it legal. You bear a higher burden of responsibility:

1. You cannot fly directly over people. A lot of good pilots have become quite good at some nice shots where the drone stops just short of going over people. A handful of companies have received waivers for this rule, but it is not easy.

2. You cannot fly beyond the line of sight, with the naked eye. Yes, you might have FPV goggles, but using them while flying alone means you are out of compliance if you are the remote pilot.

3. Unless you are in Class G air space, or have been granted permission through the FAA or through the new LAANC.

4. No night time flying. It must occur between civil sunrise and civil sunset.

5. You may not fly near other aircraft.

6.You may not fly near large groups. There are usually temporary flight restrictions in place for these. Examples: concerts, ball games, rallies, etc...

7. You may not fly near emergencies, accidents, fires, etc..

8. Lastly, not a law, but a consideration, if you lose control of your drone (flyaway) and it crashes into someone's property, are you prepared to pay out of pocket for damage?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c5zSTKjvow

pthomas745

I think you might have some difficult syntax in number 3.  I think this is what you are referencing.

Fly your drone at or below 400 feet when in uncontrolled or "Class G" airspace. This is airspace where the FAA is not controlling manned air traffic. To determine what type of airspace you are in, refer to the mobile application that operates your drone (if so equipped) and/or use other drone-related mobile applications. Knowing your location and what airspace you're in will also help you avoid interfering with other aircraft.

And, it sounds so quaint now, but the same kind of laws and panic about "flying" near airports used to be a concern  for..................kites.

jkjenn

Yeah, I must have been interrupted. Up until a couple of months ago, the rules were different for hobbyists when it came to airports. They were tightened a bit and now require permission via a mobile app or website through the LAANC system.

As far as depending on the mobile app from your manufacturer, that probably is not the way to go. You are responsible for knowing where you can and cannot fly an I know my manufacturerxs app has been wrong more than once.

dCliffhanger

When I go camping I want peace and quiet. I don't want anyone taking a photo of me or my camper or my car. I realize that I am out in a public space. But, just because automation has now enabled such intrusions, does not mean people should do it.  I was out on some BLM land for the last solar eclipse. As the the world dimmed into a spectacular enchanting twilight, someone launched several drones to record the event..... buzzzzzzz buzzzzzz and every person in a several thousand foot radius literally screamed at them to stop, and they did. The eclipse proceeded spectacularly and undisturbed.  I go to nature for peace. Leave it alone. Just my thing.

jkjenn

To each his own. Things I could do without when I camp:

Smoke from wood campfires
People talking loudly after 9:00 PM
Screaming kids
Barking dogs
Smelly foods from other campsites
Bright lights

We all have to put up with things that are not our preference and we enjoy ourselves more when we are able to just smile and be happy that someone is enjoying something we don't. 

DenisP

@jkjenn I agree with all your points.  My photos are of the landscapes and the camping memories. IMHO I would like to add that generator noise has interrupted the peace of camping in the most idyllic spots I have encountered. Everyone has their own approach to camping and flexibility is paramount to fully enjoying the experience. Resentment is a bitter pill.

ColoradoJon

A drone is one of those things - if you have a need for aerial photographs or publish a lot of photos, it's awesome.  If you are just curious and want to take a few pics just for fun, well, it's great for the first month or two.  I have a DJI Phantom 3 that now sits in the closet.  I haven't used it in over a year.

I do enjoy flying it, though, but nowadays I can only look at so many aerial photographs of my house...

ChanW

Whether or not it's legally defined as an invasion of privacy, it's one of those new 'toys' that's got great potential to impinge on the privacy we have previously taken for granted. Like jet skis in a previously quiet lake, like ATVs that give all sorts of folks access to backcountry. 

Comes with the growing population. I don't like it either, but I don't have one. I appreciate your observation @ColoradoJon. My closets are all full!

jkjenn

DenisP said:

@jkjenn I agree with all your points.  My photos are of the landscapes and the camping memories. IMHO I would like to add that generator noise has interrupted the peace of camping in the most idyllic spots I have encountered. Everyone has their own approach to camping and flexibility is paramount to fully enjoying the experience. Resentment is a bitter pill.

Perfectly stated!

ColoradoJon said:

A drone is one of those things - if you have a need for aerial photographs or publish a lot of photos, it's awesome.  If you are just curious and want to take a few pics just for fun, well, it's great for the first month or two.  I have a DJI Phantom 3 that now sits in the closet.  I haven't used it in over a year.

I do enjoy flying it, though, but nowadays I can only look at so many aerial photographs of my house...

I think there is a lot of this and that public interest will wane and that creepy behavior will become less of a problem. I don't believe all creepy behavior is intended and sometimes it just takes a conversation. 

ChanW said

Whether or not it's legally defined as an invasion of privacy, it's one of those new 'toys' that's got great potential to impinge on the privacy we have previously taken for granted. Like jet skis in a previously quiet lake, like ATVs that give all sorts of folks access to backcountry. 

Comes with the growing population. I don't like it either, but I don't have one. I appreciate your observation @ColoradoJon. My closets are all full!

Yes, to some degree, but the growing surveillance state is probably a larger and more real concern than drones, where there actually camera, everywhere. If you read about China does with cameras and surveillance, it is beyond creepy.

DougH

Sheesh, I can't even take pics of my house anymore. More than 5 miles from an airport, but AirMap, B4UFLY started showing our place in controlled airspace a year or so ago.  I think I'm still allowed to fly the 1oz Dobby inside the house, but who knows.  I really wish the FAA would put in a legal ceiling like 50 feet everywhere...  if I'm trying to remotely inspect my roof for damage after a hail storm, and a 747 flies over at under 50 feet, we probably have bigger issues. 

TerryV6

@ColoradoJon, is there room in your closet for a generator....

jkjenn

DougH said:

Sheesh, I can't even take pics of my house anymore. More than 5 miles from an airport, but AirMap, B4UFLY started showing our place in controlled airspace a year or so ago.  I think I'm still allowed to fly the 1oz Dobby inside the house, but who knows.  I really wish the FAA would put in a legal ceiling like 50 feet everywhere...  if I'm trying to remotely inspect my roof for damage after a hail storm, and a 747 flies over at under 50 feet, we probably have bigger issues. 

I agree with the 50' rule and have said so many times, myself.  The LAANC system is designed to allow for just that type of thing. You can get instant permission. 

ColoradoJon

Sorry, @TerryV6.  There is no room at all!  I'm not even sure what's in there anymore...

DougH

@jkjenn :  Question Flurry (sorry):  I thought LAANC was just for commercial use.  Can a rec user also get permissions in controlled space? Is it built into AirMap or something already?  Or do I need to wait for FAA to update B4UFLY?

pthomas745

@DougH what airport are you talking about?

DougH

DFW in North Texas.  It's got a funny shape now, maybe as they add new runways.  Instead of a five mile circle around the airport it stretches out a few extra miles in areas, maybe for common low flight paths.

pthomas745

And, not to mention all the other airports nearby!  And, keep in mind, some of those funny shapes are from different types of airspace:  Class D, Class B, etc. 

Ratkity

Try living in the DC Metro area. Everything is restricted. *sigh* There are those that can get special permission, but even the pro photographer I know that does a lot of the Coast Guard pictures said he just rents a helicopter lol.

jkjenn

DougH said:

@jkjenn :  Question Flurry (sorry):  I thought LAANC was just for commercial use.  Can a rec user also get permissions in controlled space? Is it built into AirMap or something already?  Or do I need to wait for FAA to update B4UFLY?

With the changes 2 months ago they announced LAANC for recreational flyers and I believe it live bow in apps like Airmap and Kittyhawk, but I might be wrong about that.