We bought two 100ah Battleborn Li-Po batteries before our inaugural 9-week trip, run off the 2021 Wefco 8200 charger/inverter system which does not fully charge them. Installed in passenger side bed storage, ran #8 THHN wires in liquitight conduit, from the factory terminal box on trailer frame and back again via battery shut off switch. Probably need to do some further rewiring- other folks seem to use much heavier conductor sizes.
Nucamp has given us the data to upgrade the Wefco to properly charge Li-Po batteries, but the plethora of info on other gear is overwhelming.
What do we need for basic battery monitoring and charge control?Here is our preliminary list, guidance welcome.
1. WFCO WF-8950L2-MBA Replacement RV Power
Converter Lithium-Ion Main Board
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TZNCFG4
To have a reasonably accurate meter of charge state I’d
appreciate some guidance. Are these appropriate?
2. Victron
Energy BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor (Grey)
www.amazon.com/dp/B075RTSTKS
This
seems to be the higher end version with display, the Smart Shunt appears to be the lower end version without display.
3. Victron
Energy Temperature Sensor for BMV-702/712Victron Energy Temperature Sensor for
BMV-702/712
I
am not clear if this is needed or works with a pair of batteries in series.
I bought the battleborn heated batteries so they’ll charge in colder
weather.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M06654A
4. Are folks de-wiring the LED battery indicator on the Nucamp factory panel by the door?
Appreciate all the insights already posted and any guidance you can provide.
We have not done any solar upgrades and will hold off on that for now, can use generator when needed.
Comments
Cheers
I went with a Progressive Dynamics model 9160ALV in our 400 and installed it inches away from the battery junction block under the bed. I done this to make sure that the 8-gauge wiring wasn't a restriction of any kind in my effort to charge the batteries. I can get the full 60 Amps through the shunt, so I am very happy with that.
Battleborn Batteries have both a low temperature charge protection AND a low temperature discharge prevention built into the BMS. They (BB) cost more upfront but in my opinion, they are worth it, I have 4 of them. There are lots of other choices and I encourage everyone to investigate and make decisions based on their style of camping and budget. I would NEVER suggest someone adding things that are put on a credit card and not paid off at the end of the month!
With that said, having the temperature senser for additional protection is not a bad idea, they are a minimum investment compared to the rest of what you are doing or have done already. I have one and if nothing else it has given me great peace of mind knowing that I can see what the temperature is in my battery compartment under the bed.
As far as the OEM installed LEDs for battery SOC, they are set for the voltages of AGM or SLA batteries and are of ZERO value with Lithium.
Brad
2022 Black Series HQ19 aka "Cricket"
2021 F-250 Tremor with PSD aka "Big Blue"
Concord, NC
2013 CS-S us@gi
2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
2021 T@B 320S Boondock/ 2012 Tacoma 4 cylinder truck / 2023 Tacoma 6 cyl. truck
1. Swap in 2 100Ah Battleborn batteries to get to lithium/ better capacity utilization. I believe the GC2 form factor is the appropriate drop in for the AGM's as delivered with the 400.
2. It is my understanding that the 2022 converter is lithium compatible as delivered, and only requires flipping the "little white switch".
3. It is my understanding the the Victron Solar Charge Controller as delivered is nearly maxed out (amperage) by the factory installed roof-mounted solar panel. To make use of any meaningful solar capacity add-on, an additional Victron solar charge controller should be installed and connected to the solar accessory port.
4. To have a reliable measurement of battery status, a Battery Monitor should be installed. The Victron Smart Shunt seems to be the unit of choice as the display unit is redundant given the features of the app that can interface to either, and to the solar charge controller.
Cheers
2013 Toyota Highlander 3.5L V6
I would open up the battery compartment and measure the batteries before ordering. To be honest, I wouldn’t spend the money until you have done a few outings first. I think lithium is great, but, IMO, you only need them if you consistently hit 50% or more usage on the AGMs, which we do camping in the NE for 4 or more days at a time. Awesome for boondocking, overkill for weekend trips (again, in my opinion/experience).
2018 T@B 400, 300Ah Renogy LiFePo batteries, 350W Renogy rooftop solar
Poughquag, NY
1a. Contrary to Nucamp advice, do not upgrade the Wefco converter element of the power station to the newer Wefco lithium-switched model. It would undercharge at 13.6v, without battery balancing, versus higher charge needed for Battleborn to trigger battery balancing.
1b. Buy the Progressive Dynamics PD4135K 35 amp Power Control Center (from etrailer, others). It looks like this is a swap out of the entire unit, not just the converter. So possibly a lot more wiring. Don't know until we see it. Don't know if the circuit breakers and automotive fuses are a one for one swap or if need variants as well.
2. for charge monitoring, the Victron BMV-712 has the digital readout we desire and also bluetooth monitoring. Yes the bluetooth Smartshunt would also work and be cheaper.
3. temperature monitoring option not needed, the battery heaters obviate.
4. no specific recommendations on wire (awg/kcmil) size. Right now everything is no.10. The NEC tables for 120/240v amp/wire size don't necessarily apply at 14.xx volts.
5. Inquired about on-board 120v to 12v inverter, our 2021 320S does not appear to have one despite a Nucamp telecom indicating we did! ("some do, some don;t" ... they don't have a record of what they built?. No 120v power at any outlet when not on landside or generator power.) For the modest medical heating pad we need they suggested just using an inverter that plugs into the cigarette lighter rather than hard-wiring something.
6. Battleborn indicated the factory Victron solar charge controller is maxed out with the factory 105 watt panel, if we add suitcase solar we would need to upgrade it. Did not write down model as not much solar availability in new england camping and will hold off on this. HOWEVER the settings need to be CHANGED to accommodate the higher Battleborn charge. They emailed instructions that vary depending on whether the version onboard has bluetooth access or has dip-switches. Again, NuCamp could not tell us what they installed.
Components arriving this weekend but waiting for the latest 12" of snow and ice to melt off (and less mud...) before taking our near-new trailer out of covered storage even temporarily.
I must say, I find NuCamp lack of documentation truly dismaying. Forensic investigations to determine what we bought and how it is to be used, adjusted, or drained should not be required! That said, they have been readily available and attempted to be helpful during calls on our inaugural trip.
2021 T@B 320S Boondock/ 2012 Tacoma 4 cylinder truck / 2023 Tacoma 6 cyl. truck
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
2020 Subaru Outback XT
Pacific NW
Cheers
1B. This is a self-contained unit in an enclosure and will accept up to 4-gauge (on the PD9160ALV anyway) cables. It is a converter only, so you remove the OEM WFCO Converter, it is 2 screws and 5 wires. This makes for a much cleaner install and most importantly it will allow max charging. BTW, you could use a 60 Amp also with 2 batteries if you were so inclined. It all depends on how long you want to take to recharge and what you will use.
2. I used a BMV-712 and finally installed the gauge this past winter so I could see it. Either one will work for you, but I like the idea of a backup plan with the gauge.
3. This is a loaded comment, only because it depends on where the batteries are installed. If you are installing them inside, I would add the temperature probe for $30 and use standard non-heated batteries from BB.
4. I am attaching a chart for reference.
5. As @pthomas745 already said, no inverter on 320's
6. Not sure which controller they use on a 320, our 400 BDL has a 75/15, which means a maximum of 75 volts and up to 15 Amps. NuCamp installs a "Smart Controller", which means it is Bluetooth equipped and you can use the Victron App to connect to it. Setup is very simple.
I have been down this road all the way, having installed 4 x BB's, Converter, etc. Please send me a message if you have questions, I am glad to help.
Brad
2022 Black Series HQ19 aka "Cricket"
2021 F-250 Tremor with PSD aka "Big Blue"
Concord, NC
Cheers
Will have to test the Sunbeam heating pad on my truck 12v outlet before starting; maybe we do want a hardwired inverter. Glad Dutch061 flagged this potential issue!
Ordering some terminal blocks for a cleaner setup more conducive to re-wire for the inevitable future changeup /upgrade. Trying not to overbuy on components, and test and harden systems in the yard before hitting the trail. [Of course, we could not have anticipated the factory e-brake wires would be improperly designed/installed and rub on the tyre on bumps only and fail at 12000 feet at 4F temp. But that is a separate post.]
2021 T@B 320S Boondock/ 2012 Tacoma 4 cylinder truck / 2023 Tacoma 6 cyl. truck
(Alde: 3020; Refrig: Isotherm Cruise 65 Eleg; Battery: BB 100Ah LiFePo4; Solar: Renogy 100Ah Suitcase; Victron BMV-712; Pwr Cntr: PD-4135KW2B; EMS: PI-HW30C)
Greg & Marlene (Tucson, AZ)
I would reach out to WFCO and Progressive Dynamics both to see if they offer just a replacement converter that you could swap out instead of changing the entire PDC. If so, that would be the simplest, removing 5 wires (2 DC and 3 AC) and 2 screws.
If that is not an option, alternately you could install a PD9130LV separately from the PDC and remove the WFCO Converter. If you were to do this, you could actually use a PD9145ALV and reduce the charge time further. You could install a 120 VAC outlet in place of where the OEM converter was wired in and use a couple of short lengths of wire (8-gauge minimum but suggest 6-gauge) to connect the DC output back to the PDC.
Brad
2022 Black Series HQ19 aka "Cricket"
2021 F-250 Tremor with PSD aka "Big Blue"
Concord, NC
(Alde: 3020; Refrig: Isotherm Cruise 65 Eleg; Battery: BB 100Ah LiFePo4; Solar: Renogy 100Ah Suitcase; Victron BMV-712; Pwr Cntr: PD-4135KW2B; EMS: PI-HW30C)
Greg & Marlene (Tucson, AZ)
Appalachians/Canadian maritimes camping is iffy for solar- heavily treed and limited sun. That said, ready to add a solar suitcase and 20-ft or longer 10awg umbilical to the mix.
A 200w Rhenology suitcase comes with a decent 20a controller. Following @SLJ example I would relocate the controller close to the batteries under the passenger side. An intriguing 300w off-brand suitcase comes with a deficient controller that reviewers recommend replacing. Hence the idea of going with a 30a or 50a Victron MPPT that I can monitor with the Victron smart phone App.
Can I replace the existing MPPT controller with a larger one and wire BOTH the suitcase and TAB rooftop solar to it or does each solar panel need it's own controller?
2021 T@B 320S Boondock/ 2012 Tacoma 4 cylinder truck / 2023 Tacoma 6 cyl. truck
2018 T@B 320 Sold
Racing the Wind and Chasing the Sun
We also went with the 100/30 Solar charger. However, I ran it out into the Nautilus space. This way I can run the wire out through the bottom hole in the cabinet and the door can remain closed.
Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
2024 - 2 Trips - 25 nights - 4 National Parks, 3 National Forests
2013 CS-S us@gi
2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
2024 - 2 Trips - 25 nights - 4 National Parks, 3 National Forests
You are correct the BMS won't balance the cells until they are close to fully charged. Most BMS's will turn on balancing at 3.4 vpc which is 13.6 volts for a 12v LifeP04.
An absorption charge for LifeP04 is not needed. Just bulk. You will also want a float voltage if you have loads on the batteries. When we are at our offgrid place (48v 280ah LifeP04 battery bank) I set the bulk to 54.4v, absorb to 54.4v (one minute absorb time) and float to 54v. When the place is vacant with light loads I lower both the bulk and float to a setting below 54v. This changes based upon the weather and proximity to winter solstice. I don't like them sitting above 80% when we aren't there unless I know cloudy weather or snow is setting in for a few days. They get balanced out when we are using the place.
It is not harmful if they get out of balance. Grade A cells that have been matched should go a long time at lower voltages without getting out of balance. You would probably be fine charging to 100% just a few times a year. Charging to 100% will synchronize your shunt based battery monitor if you have one.
This is the exact same reason why cell phones that constantly charge to 100% have their battery degrade faster.
Heating pad is for my back as spinal debility takes over from a career in Construction.
All, thank you for the inputs and ideas. Will go with separate Victron MPPT and a through-wall female
Anderson RV outlet with cover. Leaning towards the name-brand 200w suitcase solar.
Phase Three is upgrading the vehicular charge system with a DC to DC charger from the new truck.
Rare to see any electrical hookups at our preferred campsites, and those sites that have them are usually taken already.
1. Add two multi-terminal blocks, substitute switchable 30A circuit breakers for the inline Maxi fuses I used.
2. Renology (or Victron) 30A DC to DC converter, close to batteries, 8awg output 6awg input from truck per their tables (30-40 ft routing)
3. Battery Isolator Relay (Blue Sea SI-ACR) close to batteries, 6awg positive
4. Anderson fem. outlets at TV bumper and T@B front box, 6awg male umbilical between when towing
5. 6awg homerun from TV battery, 1" heater hose protected, and pair 60A inline switchable breakers.
Oh boy, more crawling under the truck and trailer!
Looking into various battery terminal mount options to reduce battery-top clutter and give me room for battery kill switches to use when parked at trailheads. These newfangled vehicle key codes can be duplicated when live? Truck tailgates are being stolen? Good grief. Something to be said for a rustbucket as deterrant.
Still contemplating a Phase Four upgrade to 3000w inverter and 400ah of Battleborns to run microwave and A/C, but the kitty is bare after buying my duodecennial (12-year) vehicle upgrade. We have a Ryobi 1800w generator that can do both and never use it, too noisy.
Last fall we think we finally achieved more hours actually camping than hours working on camper and truck systems starting in fall 2021. From NuCamp outright defects to Marmots eating wires to optional upgrades, been quite a ride.
2021 T@B 320S Boondock/ 2012 Tacoma 4 cylinder truck / 2023 Tacoma 6 cyl. truck
Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
2024 - 2 Trips - 25 nights - 4 National Parks, 3 National Forests
Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
2024 - 2 Trips - 25 nights - 4 National Parks, 3 National Forests