Alde Thoughts

bergger · June 2024

Sorry to hear of your troubles. We've not had any issues with our Alde but as I've mentioned in past threads I have a love hate relationship with the Alde. I would much prefer a Truma Combi unit and told myself if our Alde every goes out I would try to replace it with a Truma. I look forward to seeing what solution you come up with.

WayneW · June 2024

There are some interesting discussions on U.K. camping forums if you google Truma Combi vs Alde. Folks have a lot more experience with both and the discussions are quite informative. There seems to be no clear favorite among the ones I read.

bergger · June 2024

I'll have to check those forums out. I have no experience with the Combi but I do own a Truma Vario heater that is in my truck and I really like it. The CP control panel is easy to use and the night mode is very quiet. I'm sure the Combi is very similar in performance.

BillCB · June 2024

Having only just bought our TAB 400, we haven't yet run the heating. I understand it takes a while to warm up. Is there any reason it can't be run while driving? For example, if you're going to set up camp at 6pm, can you stop for a minute at 5pm to turn the system on?

Maple_Geek · June 2024

@BillCB this would imply that you are driving with propane turned on. I'm not sure I would be comfortable with that personally and there may be some laws against that (not sure). That said, I don't see why it could not be done mechanically.

pthomas745 · June 2024

The Alde works driving down the road just fine. I've done it accidently a couple of times. The trailer is not very air tight, however, so it is not the most efficient way to run it.

Whenever the discussion about "how long it takes to heat come up", it isn't like it takes several hours. You can have hot water after just a few minutes on propane or electric. Getting the rest of the trailer "warm" does take a bit longer, since the warm glycol has to travel around the trailer and warm up the hoses and convectors.

Sharon_is_SAM · June 2024

Pg 2 of the Alde 3020 manual

WARNING FIRE/EXPLOSION HAZARD VARNING

Do not use the LP Gas operation on the hydronic heating system while refueling or pumping gas.

AVERTISSMENT

Do not use any type of open flame when checking for gas leaks. WUsAe RgeNnuUinNe AGlde replacement parts only.

LP tanks must be filled by a qualified gas supplier only.

Use with LP Gas only.

Shut off the gas and the LP tank when the vehicle is in motion. This helps disable all gas appliances and pilot lights.

Gas appliances must never be operated while the vehicle is in motion.

swiftwave · June 2024

I understand there are diverging views on the topic of running propane appliances while underway. I make no exceptions: My propane cylinders are always turned off when I’m towing. Propane is an extremely high energy product, not to be taken lightly.

I do a lot of boondocking in northern Canada, so my trailer is often quite cold inside when I first arrive at a campsite. My first task upon arrival is to turn on the propane, then turn on the Alde and the fridge. Then, after I’ve lowered the stabilizers and set up my campsite, the inside of the trailer is usually well on its way to becoming comfortably warm. Sometimes, if an extra initial burst of heat is desired, I will turn on a small portable 110 volt ceramic heater for a few minutes to take the chill off. To conserve my T@B 400's onboard batteries, I plug this little heater into a portable lithium power station that I carry and charge inside my tow vehicle. Just a few minutes of electric heat makes a big difference and will enable the Alde to maintain the accumulated warmth, rather than struggle to achieve the warmth on its own.

My Alde days are over though; I have recently installed a Suburban propane forced air furnace, ducted into the original air conditioning vents as well as a custom vent behind the bed. My maiden voyage with this new heat source is soon approaching…

Citruscountytab400 · June 2024

I will be installing a Mr cool mini split since the Aldi and cool cat are so inefficient. I also plan to go with a 10 gallon gas/electric water heater in the future. I may leave the cool cat for a backup, but the Aldi is such a waste of space and too complex for long-term reliability. Everything mechanically in the tab 400 is over engineered and more of a novelty compared with other rvs and their reliability using basic ac, heat, and water heaters. The basic shell of the tab is okay, but the exterior plastic trip drives me crazy for a $50000 rv.

Binghi · July 2024

So why did you buy it?

riseandshine · July 2024

For anyone interested, the Truma Combi is not available in the U.S. for aftermarket or retail sale to the public - it's only available to authorized OEM manufacturers who make or repair RVs. I contacted Truma directly and they verified this. So the Truma Combi is off the table for most DIY folks, unless you want to source the unit and installation parts from overseas and forfeit any manufacturer warrantee and customer service. There have been some DIY folks online that successfully ordered the Combi from OEM sources in the U.S. and Canada, but Truma said this is not allowed by them.

Fortunately, there is a very similar alternative to the Truma Combi that looks nearly identical in specs, performance and price called the Aqua-Hot Gen 1 Propane. And unlike the Combi, Aqua-Hot makes this unit and all installation parts available to the DIY market through multiple retailers. The Gen 1 is relatively new, launched in 2022, but Aqua-Hot has made heating systems for years.

stepheng · March 13

Has anyone retrofitted this?

VonAustria · March 29

I have been impressed with how well the Alde system keeps the camper so nice and cozy warm. I love it but I have a real problem with NuCamp. As the manufacturer of the Tab trailers, it seems to me they have no desire to improve the installation to make flushing the system a much simpler process, a process that the owner could perform if that is his or her desire. The forum has been doing everything under the sun to develop and share their processes on their own to keep the corrosion issue at bay.

Nucamp needs to step up and develop a fluid change process with specific instructions that are simple to follow and easily understood.

I also don’t understand why the “ingredients” in the fluid are so secret. Automobiles manufactured today for the most part are equipped with aluminum radiators and they don't require the antifreeze be replaced every 2 years. Is it their concern that the special anti-corrosive ingredient is present in one or all the antifreezes developed for the automotive industry?
To me it’s sad that every NuCamp owner has to live with this nagging worry and expense to ensure the super efficient, quiet heating system will self destruct if not properly flushed properly every 2 years. A NuCamp dealer charged me $600+ to replace my fluid and it took them 5 hours to do it. NuCamp seems to be tone deaf to all the complaints and owner efforts to maintain the system themselves.

Please develop and publish a well defined procedure with a list of parts (with part numbers) if needed that would be readily available from your dealers.

Please, NuCamp, HELP!

GBL_citruscountyfl · March 29

I live full-time in my 2020 (built in 2019) 400, and besides for hating the complexity of the aldi, I use it all year, plus a month a year in -3 or lower temperatures with no issues. I've never changed the fluid and just add when it evaporates from 24/7 use. I do test the ph level and it hasn't changed from the new century fluid. It's absolutely automotive antifreeze rebranded and sold at double the price, but its still only about 15-20 dollars a gallon when I buy the super concentrated bottle.

Maple_Geek · March 30

I have a 2022 TAB320 and I've only topped up the ALDE fluid. I've never replaced it. I monitor my fittings regularily and nothing seems to have changed. I'm sure my warranty is likely void by now but I don't see the need to do this fluid replacement, at least not at the frequency they recommend it. My TAB seems to have different fittings than the older one that corroded in the pictures I saw in this forum. If one day I have evidence that my approach was wrong, I will report it here for sure, but until then, I continue to camp stress free with the ALDE.

rfuss928 · March 30

GBL_citruscountyfl said:

It's absolutely automotive antifreeze rebranded and sold at double the price,

ABSOLUTELY NOT - Automotive antifreeze is extremely toxic. Alde recommended fluid is not. If any internal leaks develop the heat transfer fluid could mix with the fresh water and contaminate the entire system.

Grumpy_G · March 30

rfuss928 said:

GBL_citruscountyfl said:

It's absolutely automotive antifreeze rebranded and sold at double the price,

ABSOLUTELY NOT - Automotive antifreeze is extremely toxic. Alde recommended fluid is not. If any internal leaks develop the heat transfer fluid could mix with the fresh water and contaminate the entire system.

Alde fluid *in the US* is not automotive antifreeze, in Europe it is indeed the same fluid as VW G12 coolant. Which might be part of why corrosion issues are common here.

GBL_citruscountyfl · March 30

I full-time in my 2020 400, and never done the century fluid. I add to it, maintain the hoses and fitting, and test the ph. I've found the ph to be about 10.5 in the Aldi, and 10-10.5 in the new fluid. I do, however take wheel bearings and tires seriously, and repack every year, and replace my Goodyear tires every two years/6k miles.

scott14 · April 1

We have a 2019 400 purchased used in June of 2023. We don't know the history of the glycol, for example when it was last changed. It is the Century glycol.

After reading the comment from @GBL_citruscountyfl, I decided to test the pH of our glycol.
pH Test Results:

Century Glycol in original sealed bottle pH = 9.0 (Label on bottle says pH is to be between 8.0-10.0)

1st test sampled from overflow tank (cold fluid) pH = 8.5-9.0

2nd test sampled from overflow tank (cold fluid) pH = 8.5-9.0
3rd test sample from overflow tank (after circulating glycol for 5 minutes [no heat]) = 8.5-9.0

The results tell me that at present the glycol is okay, but it is aging. There is no immediate need to do an exchange. It would be advisable to plan for an exchange at the end of this season or next spring. This would then reset the known baseline, restore full corrosion protection, and remove any doubt about the system for years.

I was talking with the Truma Service Center (Elkhart) to schedule an exchange and upgrade to the Rhomar glycol. After reviewing this information, I will wait until at least next year before spending the $600.

I say all of this to ask, why Truma and/or nuCamp does not discuss checking the pH on a regular basis to determine the need for a glycol exchange? This test seems like a good indicator for the "health" of the glycol.

pthomas745 · April 1

The PH is not a good example of the ""goodness" of the glycol. The many many posts about the pH measurements have shown over and over the glycol seems fairly stable. The measurement that counts is the amount of the "anti corrosion" chemicals that are present in the glycol, and we have several owners who have sent their glycol samples into Rhomar (the company that actually makes the glycol Alde sells to owners) and gotten results back. You can find some results here:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/209534/#Comment_209534

Note that this owner has discovered (again!) corrosion of their convectors even after Truma worked on the system and replaced convectors, etc.

Over and over we come back to the way the Alde convectors and parts are constructed. If glycol gets under the hoses because of poorly fitted parts, it doesn't seem to matter how often you change the glycol. The parts that are not provided the anti-corrosion elements in the glycol will corrode.

RCB · April 2

Perhaps this continuing saga of the corrosion of aluminum parts in the system is a result of the legislation that requires polypropylene glycol as the carrier of the corrosion inhibitors. In the automotive world aluminum radiators and engine components are connected with similar rubber like hoses and clamps all similar to what is used in the Aldi, but use ethylene glycol based coolants. Could it be that the ethylene glycol does a better job of protecting such systems from corrosion ? In Europe the Alde change cycle for their ethylene based glycol is 5 years. The Alde fluid there is to a VW coolant spec. So on that basis the conclusion is simple: it offers better corrosion protection than the fluids in use in the US and Canada.

pthomas745 · April 2

Going back to the Mark Turney videos about the cause of the corrosion, he says somewhere in there that automobile manufacturers learned the lesson of proper clamping and sealing aluminum sections a long time ago. If the propylene glycol was truly "corrosive" we would be seeing entire aluminum interiors of the Alde convectors collapsing just like we see the outside of the "stubs" being eaten through from the glycol being trapped under the hoses.

He also claimed the other day that the Aldes in the UK had coated stub ends or components, and I'm trying to learn more about that. In the Corrosion of the Alde Convectors thread, there were several different methods used to "coat" and protect the aluminum "stubs": shrink wrap, various epoxy combinations, etc. And, proper clamping. I know that in my trailer I am approaching the 2.5 year mark, and when I do drain the glycol I will take the hoses off in the spots I can reach easily and see how the "shrink wrap" I used is holding up. I'm sure there are other owners will be checking their stub ends, too, to see if their various methods worked.

Freespirit · April 2

Sharing what my experience has been after my first system flush to change from Century to Rhomar, and 2 additional flushes (Rhomar to Rhomar) both after 2 years. I found the pH analysis to be misleading at best, and confirmed my suspicions by sending a 16 ounce sample of Rhomar fluid drained from my second system flush to Rhomar Water for their analysis.

Here is their analysis of my 2 year old Rhomar fluid:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/4g/wuzobuiqnoeu.jpeg

That analysis resulted in this degree of corrosion:

I am not a chemist, engineer or scientist, so I have no explanation for what is happening in the Alde system. Only an opinion based on my experiences, what you cannot see may be a big problem later, do what you feel comfortable with to fight corrosion. Do I think there is an issue with Rhomar fluid, yes, do I know what it is, no. I will leave that for people smarter than me to figure out.

manyman297 · April 2

@Freespirit So you had issues with the Rhomar water? It seems the vast majority of users had issues with Century but I haven’t heard much about Rhomar. I’m coming up on year 3 of not changing my fluid (I did perform a fluid swap after two years of ownership though). I do a visual check of the convectors and they look fine but who knows what could be going on inside the piping.

scott14 · April 2

Thank you for this continued discussion. After some reflection, we have decided to proceed with the glycol flush and refill at Truma's Service Center in Elkhart. We have an appointment scheduled for mid-June.

Freespirit · April 2

@manyman297, I had no issue with the Rhomar water, my Rhomar was within their specifications after 2 years of use. All which adds to the continued discussion, “why are so many Alde systems developing corrosion after following manufacture maintenance recommendations”.

ckjs · April 2

Freespirit said:

Here is their analysis of my 2 year old Rhomar fluid:

The Nitrate and Phosphate levels are way down from the original specification! I’m don’t have the chemistry to assess that, but I’m surprised that the now-trace amounts of those are considered still okay.

RCB · April 5

I understand Polypropylene to be a plastic in its ‘raw’ form and is dissolved into a liquid carrier. I wonder if the sludge in the pics is somehow polypropylene that has separated from the liquid coolant.

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