Winterizing Issue?

mandt
mandt Member Posts: 158
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
Ok, first I drained all the freshwater by opening the freshwater valve next to the footstep and the 2 valves next to the aldi and put the yellow tab next to the aldi in the up position. I let it drain then I tilted the nose of the trailer high and then low. Got the freshwater gauge down to 6 percent.
So far so good...
Next I left all the valves open plus I turned on the indoor and outdoor shower and kitchen faucet. I also disconnected the water hose to the toilet. Then I connected the compressor to the city water connection. I let the compressor run until no more water came out anywhere. Then did it nose up and then nose down. Freshwater gauge reads zero percent. No water left..
Or so I thought.
After I was all done I turned on the water pump and heard slight gurgling sounds. What!!?? So I disconnect the inlet and outlet of the pump and run the pump. No water there. So next while the compressor was running I closed all valves but one to build more pressure and I cycled thru all the valves. Next I took off the pressure regulator to get more pressure (it automatically shuts off at 50) Tried it all again, maybe got a couple drops. Still hear slight gurgling when I turn on the pump. The only thing that seemed odd to me was that I felt no air pressure coming out of the 2 showers even though they were turned on. I did feel air pressure coming out of the kitchen faucet.
So, should I ignore the gurgling or....???
Mickey & Terri
2016 Max S
Kalamazoo Michigan
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Comments

  • bramptontab
    bramptontab Member Posts: 16
    Hi @mandt, I had the same issue just this past weekend on my 2017. I ran some antifreeze through the water pump from the freshwater tank just to be on the safe side, then disconnected the inlet and outlet to the pump as per the manual. 

    I then tried my best to angle the open hoses downwards to help drain. 

    I also cycled between camping mode and winter mode on the small ball valves in the manual pictures for hot and cold.
    2017 T@B S Max
    2016 Toyota Venza 3.5V6
    2012 ShihPoo White
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  • mandt
    mandt Member Posts: 158
    I was hoping not to put antifreeze in the freshwater tank, sounds like that is what you did?

    Mickey & Terri
    2016 Max S
    Kalamazoo Michigan
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    @mandt
    For the main shower I screwed off the shower head and drained the hose - awkward to keep the hand held piece in place.  
    If you disconnected the hose on both sides of the pump after running dry and emptied the pump filter cup, the pump should be dry.  If the pump is dry, really no need to add antifreeze to the fresh water tank/pump.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • dragonsdofly
    dragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,927
    One of the easiest solutions we have found to help empty that fresh tank is to have the door side down a couple of inches. Seems we get another half to full gallon to empty out that way.
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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  • jgram2
    jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    Another use for those blocks!
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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  • bramptontab
    bramptontab Member Posts: 16
    @mandt yes it my hope to not put any in either. Unfortunately it gets really cold where I am, didn't want to take any chances. I only put in a quart, and ran with pump until I had pink foam at the sink and showerhead. I got my trailer having had antifreeze in holding tank beginning of April. Ours came direct from Factory to dealer to us. Also had a sticker on window "this unit has been winterized". 
    2017 T@B S Max
    2016 Toyota Venza 3.5V6
    2012 ShihPoo White
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  • Michigan_Mike
    Michigan_Mike Member Posts: 2,858
    There might be a very small amount of water in the fresh water tank, but if you've taken ample time to drain it via lowering the tongue, etc. you should be fine.  A small amount of leftover water won't hurt anything.  I don't put any of the pink RV antifreeze in to any of my lines other than the black tank, gray tank, sink, shower and stool area.   I set the air compressor at 20-25# PSI and it does a nice job of blowing out all the lines.  Have never had any issues here in Michigan and am confident things will be fine this year as well.   
    Mike - Elmira, Mi / 2019 T@B 400 / 2021 Chevy Silverado LTZ
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    @mandt and @bramptontab, if you really want to get antifreeze into the pump--but not everywhere else--you could do this. It's probably overkill, but it will eliminate any concern about residual water remaining in the pump and freezing:

    Reach down into the wall and disconnect the two pump lines where they tee into the supply-side and distribution-side plumbing. Run the outlet hose into a bowl. Turn the pump on and slowly pour a little antifreeze into the inlet hose until you see it coming out into the bowl. Run the pump a few more seconds until nothing more comes out, then hook everything back up. 
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • bramptontab
    bramptontab Member Posts: 16
    Thanks @ScottG, I thought of that as soon as I opened up that little compartment behind the toilet. But I like to leave a little antifreeze anywhere I can, its easier to flush than replace a blown tee or line. I will sanitize and flush in the spring anyways as per the manual. 
    2017 T@B S Max
    2016 Toyota Venza 3.5V6
    2012 ShihPoo White
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  • mandt
    mandt Member Posts: 158
    Ok, I have taken the advice of some of you and tried tilting the trailer toward the passenger side by placing 3" block under the drivers side tire. Turned on the compressor and got some drips out of the freshwater drain but certainly not much. I have run thru all the procedures again with nose up and nose down and can't get another drop out of the freshwater drain. It reads zero. But if I turn on the pump I still hear some slight gurgling. I wonder if anyone else has turned on the pump after draining the system to hear the sound. Am I being to picky? 
    Mickey & Terri
    2016 Max S
    Kalamazoo Michigan
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  • ColoradoJon
    ColoradoJon Member Posts: 415
    @mandt - I don't tilt my trailer at all when I winterize.  I level it, drain, blow out the lines, then add antifreeze to the gate valves and traps.  I wouldn't call it picky, just cautious :)

    I do remove the lines to the water pump and run the pump until most of the water is gone.  Like @Michigan_Mike said it's ok if there is a little water left in.  It is such a small amount that it will not expand much at all.
    Jon & Angela | Florissant Colorado | 2017 Outback S
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  • Photomom
    Photomom Member Posts: 2,217
    My theory is that leaving the drains and faucets open after winterizing will allow any remaining freezing water to expand.
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    Mandt, if all you get out of the faucets when blowing out the lines is mist, you are good to go.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    mandt said:
    ...
    But if I turn on the pump I still hear some slight gurgling. I wonder if anyone else has turned on the pump after draining the system to hear the sound. Am I being to picky? 
    I think so...  ;-)

    If you are worried, follow SAM's and other's suggestion to disconnect the pump lines and let it dry out thoroughly.

    If you are really worried, follow my suggestion to run a little antifreeze through the pump.

    If you are really really worried just pump antifreeze through everything, rest easy through the winter, and flush it out in the spring! 
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    Scott, too funny.  We need a ScottG Winterization Worry Scale!
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • bramptontab
    bramptontab Member Posts: 16
    @ScottG agree with @SAM that is the perfect scale.

    @mandt, to ease your mind, I would follow number two, run a little anitfreeze from a bowl directly into the pump into a white pail on the other side and see if its pink, that way any water leftover or trapped will not be able to freeze. 

    @MandyLea has a funny suggestion of running vodka through system in one of her youtube videos. Unfortunately alcohol is super expensive in Ontario. I think I saw a 3L jug in Myrtle Beach SC Costco for 15 bucks. 
    2017 T@B S Max
    2016 Toyota Venza 3.5V6
    2012 ShihPoo White
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    Yeah, RV antifreeze is pretty cheap. I'll reserve the vodka for winterizing my system...  ;-)
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • ericnliz
    ericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    @ScottG, Atta boy, save it for the after snow shoveling experience! :joy::rofl:
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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  • mandt
    mandt Member Posts: 158
    Well, I guess I will find out if it works next spring...
    Mickey & Terri
    2016 Max S
    Kalamazoo Michigan
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    @mandt, FWIW, plenty of people just blow the lines, spin the pump dry for a few seconds, and call it good. However, I've yet to see a report of freeze damage to a pump. YMMV!
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • TerryV6
    TerryV6 Member Posts: 1,101
    Last of all, for those people like me who pull their battery for the winter, take a picture of the connections.  For most of the smart people here, that’s not a problem..  For the rest of us...


    Terry & Jody...  2025 Honda Ridgeline RTL
    2016 NuCamp 320 T@B Max S
    T@bbey  Road   
    Appleton,  WI





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  • IslandJo
    IslandJo Member Posts: 60
    edited November 2017
    I just winterized my new T@b CS-S using all the helpful info on the forum. Kudos to @Sam for the cheat sheet. Thanks to all.
    2018 T@B CS-S on an Outback axle 
    2017 Toyota Tacoma with tow package
    Pacific Northwest 
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    Glad it was helpful:)
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • BrianZ
    BrianZ Member Posts: 1,770
    Adding my thanks to @SAM for the winterization guide, but since I tend to be thorough, I ended up going to level 2 on the ScottG Winterization Worry Scale..
    I stumbled upon these right-angle connectors on the pump manufacturer's site & found them on Amazon & figured I could make both an intake & output tube for what Scott suggested.  Worked great!  I pumped out the antifreeze, but left the tubes in for rinsing in the spring.
    Thanks, @Scott & @SAM.





    Used the permanent curve in the tubing to hook the open ends over the plumbing pipe for the winter, then will use it in the spring for rinsing.
    I feel better now, since we're supposed to get down to 24° tonight.  Our normal "first frost" date is around mid Nov here in central VA, but we're getting an early hard freeze instead.

    -Brian in Chester, Virginia
    TV: 2005 Toyota Sienna LE (3.3L V6)
    RV: 2018 T@B 320S, >100 mods 
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  • jgram2
    jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    That is elegantly simple! You are ready for winter and spring! 
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    Clever. Then you won't need to flush out the AF through the rest of the system, just let it exit the pump. That works!  The duct tape is a nice touch
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    edited November 2017
    Great idea, @BrianZ --that's a whole lot better than the juggling/contortionist act I've been pulling off! I'll be adding those parts to my shopping list ASAP.
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • BrianZ
    BrianZ Member Posts: 1,770
    PS:
    I have to admit, the Shurflo pump manufacturer's manual neither suggests nor discourages using antifreeze in the pump, but they do state freezing damage voids the warranty.  They also suggest it's best to just run it til no water left & leave it disconnected, but I figure they are just trying to keep things simple while avoiding added concerns about water line contamination.  So, whichever way you like is good. 
    I did follow their suggestion to put a "plumbing disconnected at pump" note on a piece of tape over the tank filler on the outside, as that could be a disaster leaving lines open inside the wall & then forgetting.  Probably wouldn't hurt to put tape over the pump switch too.  I also rinsed out the inline filter next to the pump, since that had a few small particulates.



    -Brian in Chester, Virginia
    TV: 2005 Toyota Sienna LE (3.3L V6)
    RV: 2018 T@B 320S, >100 mods 
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  • jkjenn
    jkjenn Member Posts: 6,417
    My tip to emptying the freshwater tank, completely, is to open the drain valve on the way back from camping, unless you live in a completely flat area. The natural motion and up and down driving does a nice job.

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    Thanks Brian, I will update the winterization instructions to include this.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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