Winterizing Issue?

mandt

Ok, first I drained all the freshwater by opening the freshwater valve next to the footstep and the 2 valves next to the aldi and put the yellow tab next to the aldi in the up position. I let it drain then I tilted the nose of the trailer high and then low. Got the freshwater gauge down to 6 percent.
So far so good...
Next I left all the valves open plus I turned on the indoor and outdoor shower and kitchen faucet. I also disconnected the water hose to the toilet. Then I connected the compressor to the city water connection. I let the compressor run until no more water came out anywhere. Then did it nose up and then nose down. Freshwater gauge reads zero percent. No water left..
Or so I thought.
After I was all done I turned on the water pump and heard slight gurgling sounds. What!!?? So I disconnect the inlet and outlet of the pump and run the pump. No water there. So next while the compressor was running I closed all valves but one to build more pressure and I cycled thru all the valves. Next I took off the pressure regulator to get more pressure (it automatically shuts off at 50) Tried it all again, maybe got a couple drops. Still hear slight gurgling when I turn on the pump. The only thing that seemed odd to me was that I felt no air pressure coming out of the 2 showers even though they were turned on. I did feel air pressure coming out of the kitchen faucet.
So, should I ignore the gurgling or....???

bramptontab

Hi @mandt, I had the same issue just this past weekend on my 2017. I ran some antifreeze through the water pump from the freshwater tank just to be on the safe side, then disconnected the inlet and outlet to the pump as per the manual. 

I then tried my best to angle the open hoses downwards to help drain. 

I also cycled between camping mode and winter mode on the small ball valves in the manual pictures for hot and cold.

mandt

I was hoping not to put antifreeze in the freshwater tank, sounds like that is what you did?

Sharon_is_SAM

@mandt
For the main shower I screwed off the shower head and drained the hose - awkward to keep the hand held piece in place.  
If you disconnected the hose on both sides of the pump after running dry and emptied the pump filter cup, the pump should be dry.  If the pump is dry, really no need to add antifreeze to the fresh water tank/pump.

dragonsdofly

One of the easiest solutions we have found to help empty that fresh tank is to have the door side down a couple of inches. Seems we get another half to full gallon to empty out that way.

jgram2

Another use for those blocks!

bramptontab

@mandt yes it my hope to not put any in either. Unfortunately it gets really cold where I am, didn't want to take any chances. I only put in a quart, and ran with pump until I had pink foam at the sink and showerhead. I got my trailer having had antifreeze in holding tank beginning of April. Ours came direct from Factory to dealer to us. Also had a sticker on window "this unit has been winterized". 

Michigan_Mike

There might be a very small amount of water in the fresh water tank, but if you've taken ample time to drain it via lowering the tongue, etc. you should be fine.  A small amount of leftover water won't hurt anything.  I don't put any of the pink RV antifreeze in to any of my lines other than the black tank, gray tank, sink, shower and stool area.   I set the air compressor at 20-25# PSI and it does a nice job of blowing out all the lines.  Have never had any issues here in Michigan and am confident things will be fine this year as well.   

ScottG

@mandt and @bramptontab, if you really want to get antifreeze into the pump--but not everywhere else--you could do this. It's probably overkill, but it will eliminate any concern about residual water remaining in the pump and freezing:

Reach down into the wall and disconnect the two pump lines where they tee into the supply-side and distribution-side plumbing. Run the outlet hose into a bowl. Turn the pump on and slowly pour a little antifreeze into the inlet hose until you see it coming out into the bowl. Run the pump a few more seconds until nothing more comes out, then hook everything back up. 

bramptontab

Thanks @ScottG, I thought of that as soon as I opened up that little compartment behind the toilet. But I like to leave a little antifreeze anywhere I can, its easier to flush than replace a blown tee or line. I will sanitize and flush in the spring anyways as per the manual. 

mandt

Ok, I have taken the advice of some of you and tried tilting the trailer toward the passenger side by placing 3" block under the drivers side tire. Turned on the compressor and got some drips out of the freshwater drain but certainly not much. I have run thru all the procedures again with nose up and nose down and can't get another drop out of the freshwater drain. It reads zero. But if I turn on the pump I still hear some slight gurgling. I wonder if anyone else has turned on the pump after draining the system to hear the sound. Am I being to picky? 

ColoradoJon

@mandt - I don't tilt my trailer at all when I winterize.  I level it, drain, blow out the lines, then add antifreeze to the gate valves and traps.  I wouldn't call it picky, just cautious

I do remove the lines to the water pump and run the pump until most of the water is gone.  Like @Michigan_Mike said it's ok if there is a little water left in.  It is such a small amount that it will not expand much at all.

Photomom

My theory is that leaving the drains and faucets open after winterizing will allow any remaining freezing water to expand.

Sharon_is_SAM

Mandt, if all you get out of the faucets when blowing out the lines is mist, you are good to go.

ScottG

mandt said:

...
But if I turn on the pump I still hear some slight gurgling. I wonder if anyone else has turned on the pump after draining the system to hear the sound. Am I being to picky? 

I think so...  ;-)

If you are worried, follow SAM's and other's suggestion to disconnect the pump lines and let it dry out thoroughly.

If you are really worried, follow my suggestion to run a little antifreeze through the pump.

If you are really really worried just pump antifreeze through everything, rest easy through the winter, and flush it out in the spring! 

Sharon_is_SAM

Scott, too funny.  We need a ScottG Winterization Worry Scale!

bramptontab

@ScottG agree with @SAM that is the perfect scale.

@mandt, to ease your mind, I would follow number two, run a little anitfreeze from a bowl directly into the pump into a white pail on the other side and see if its pink, that way any water leftover or trapped will not be able to freeze. 

@MandyLea has a funny suggestion of running vodka through system in one of her youtube videos. Unfortunately alcohol is super expensive in Ontario. I think I saw a 3L jug in Myrtle Beach SC Costco for 15 bucks. 

ScottG

Yeah, RV antifreeze is pretty cheap. I'll reserve the vodka for winterizing my system...  ;-)

ericnliz

@ScottG, Atta boy, save it for the after snow shoveling experience!

mandt

Well, I guess I will find out if it works next spring...

ScottG

@mandt, FWIW, plenty of people just blow the lines, spin the pump dry for a few seconds, and call it good. However, I've yet to see a report of freeze damage to a pump. YMMV!

TerryV6

Last of all, for those people like me who pull their battery for the winter, take a picture of the connections.  For most of the smart people here, that’s not a problem..  For the rest of us...

IslandJo

I just winterized my new T@b CS-S using all the helpful info on the forum. Kudos to @Sam for the cheat sheet. Thanks to all.

Sharon_is_SAM

Glad it was helpful:)

BrianZ

Adding my thanks to @SAM for the winterization guide, but since I tend to be thorough, I ended up going to level 2 on the ScottG Winterization Worry Scale..
I stumbled upon these right-angle connectors on the pump manufacturer's site & found them on Amazon & figured I could make both an intake & output tube for what Scott suggested.  Worked great!  I pumped out the antifreeze, but left the tubes in for rinsing in the spring.
Thanks, @Scott & @SAM.





Used the permanent curve in the tubing to hook the open ends over the plumbing pipe for the winter, then will use it in the spring for rinsing.
I feel better now, since we're supposed to get down to 24° tonight.  Our normal "first frost" date is around mid Nov here in central VA, but we're getting an early hard freeze instead.

jgram2

That is elegantly simple! You are ready for winter and spring! 

Sharon_is_SAM

Clever. Then you won't need to flush out the AF through the rest of the system, just let it exit the pump. That works!  The duct tape is a nice touch

ScottG

Great idea, @BrianZ --that's a whole lot better than the juggling/contortionist act I've been pulling off! I'll be adding those parts to my shopping list ASAP.

BrianZ

PS:
I have to admit, the Shurflo pump manufacturer's manual neither suggests nor discourages using antifreeze in the pump, but they do state freezing damage voids the warranty.  They also suggest it's best to just run it til no water left & leave it disconnected, but I figure they are just trying to keep things simple while avoiding added concerns about water line contamination.  So, whichever way you like is good. 
I did follow their suggestion to put a "plumbing disconnected at pump" note on a piece of tape over the tank filler on the outside, as that could be a disaster leaving lines open inside the wall & then forgetting.  Probably wouldn't hurt to put tape over the pump switch too.  I also rinsed out the inline filter next to the pump, since that had a few small particulates.

jkjenn

My tip to emptying the freshwater tank, completely, is to open the drain valve on the way back from camping, unless you live in a completely flat area. The natural motion and up and down driving does a nice job.

Sharon_is_SAM

Thanks Brian, I will update the winterization instructions to include this.