See what's coming in the new 2021 T@B 320!

Denny16

The AC/DC fridge works great, I ran mine in the TaB400 for a day on Battery to see how it worked for boondocking and the solar panel (190 watt) kept up the battery nicely.   Others have reported being able to run the DC fridge for 3-4 days without issue.  Of course this depends on how often you open it and if the contents start out cold.
cheers

bergger

I wish the 400 had a cassette toilet option!

tepe50

bergger said:

I wish the 400 had a cassette toilet option!

and a larger gray tank

Mouseketab

Here are the steps with a cassette in a FHU campsite on a daily basis, because with two people overnight needs only that thing will be full. (Two - Three uses per person each night)
1. Grab the gloves
2. Go to the doorside of the trailer open the door
3. Remove the grey water hose from the sewer connection
4. Drag out the heavy tank
5. Rotate the nozzle, remove the cap
6. Try and tilt it to the sewer hole without spilling or splashing.
7. Rinse it out
8. Put the cap back on, rotate the nozzle
9. Reinsert, close the door
10. Clean up the splash
11. Put the grey water hose back
12. Drop some "enzyme" in the toilet

The steps for an 8 gallon blackwater tank on a daily basis with hoses already connected
1. Grab a glove
2. Put a piece of rock on the flusher to hold it open and have water flowing.
3. Pull the handle let it run, till it runs clear
4. Pull the grey handle, let it run till clear
5. Remove the rock
6. Close both handles
7. Drop some "enzyme" in the toilet

Five fewer steps, and a lot less messy and heavy.

Olena

I love the new split seat and bed slats. That is such a great feature whether you are camping alone or with a partner. After one season I think that the white ceiling would not be looking so pristine. There is lots mosquito squishing that needs to be done all summer. The birch ceiling is definitely easier to keep looking clean.

MuttonChops

Denny16 said:

The differences between a PortaPotty and a Cassette toilet are huge, more like night and day, with the later being far easier to dump,  . . .

Have to disagree. My sailboat had a Porta-Potty, a fancy two piece unit, the waste tank could be taken to a dump location and was smaller than a 5-gallon water Jerry Can.  Except for not having the 'waste dump arm tube  assembly thing' it was a cassette toilet.  And it was near impossible to empty at a standard toilet without slash back and mess and would have been impossible to dump into a 3-inch FHP drain.  In a video linked-posted above (several posts ago) the reviewers noted how they seek out vault toilets for dumping as the high drop reduces slash back.

Until cassette equipped trailers/campers come with complete materials to dump at standard North America dump stations or FHP sites they will be a source of issues for all campers in the area.

Also, no one has noted the 2020 320S still needs to stop at a standard dump station to empty the grey water.  So in 2017 nuCamp combined the black & grey water dumping to a single hose attachment which was a big plus for owners. Now in 2020 owners have to do two completely separate dump operations, that is moving backwards not forward in product development.

This camping season I'll be telling Zommbies to look for used T@B campers; no longer will be providing new dealer references.

Denny16

MuttonChops, I think you miss understood what I was trying to say.  I said the marine type  Porta-Potty I had was more difficult to deal with than a current cassette toilet , like what NuCamp is using.   That said, dumping a black tank is indeed easier yet.  

Before cassette toilets can be truly more convenient, we need to have the vending machine type dump facilities like they have in Europe.  Meanwhile, we are more of a black/grey tank culture.
Cheers

ontheroad

@Olena ....I currently have the white ceiling in a T@G...you don't swat them you vacuum them...get yourself a dust buster! no blood...and the trailer looks brighter!

MuttonChops

Marceline said:

MuttonChops said:

. . .  NuCamp is just focused on their Manufacturing Costs and NOT real user experience.

I don’t think that your last comment is either accurate or fair.  . . .

Just because this change doesn’t suit you personally doesn’t mean that NuCamp isn’t focused on user experience.  . . . 

@Marceline ;  Perhaps my comment on NuCamp losing focus was a bit harsh.
While clearly something has/is changing at NuCamp.  Maybe the funding sources for the big factory expansion and product line expansion have the dreaded, for small business owners, action by investors demanding a hockey stick curve return on investment. We can only guess.  NuCamp's actions would suggest that or something like it is a problem.

Note:
 a)  drop in out-going factory quality many new owners have had
 b)  shifting of parts ordering via dealer
 c)  poorly qualified shifts to new components; air-8 in 400 for one
 d)  questionable design choices away from historical; dark stain, solid bathroom door, cassette

Yes, NuCamp has the right and should be doing things to reduce their costs. Changes like two rear cabinets doors instead of three make sense and don't impact users.  But the air-8 in 400's is a no show, air-8 in 320 eliminates storage.  It is difficult to balance changes and keep the historical value of a product.

NuCamp is on the edge of losing what has made their products special . . . due to the need to pay off that big new factory or investors IMHO.

The new & improved products make it difficult for many current owners to sell T@B to zombies.

jkjenn

MuttonChops said:

Marceline said:

MuttonChops said:

. . .  NuCamp is just focused on their Manufacturing Costs and NOT real user experience.

I don’t think that your last comment is either accurate or fair.  . . .

Just because this change doesn’t suit you personally doesn’t mean that NuCamp isn’t focused on user experience.  . . . 

@Marceline ;  Perhaps my comment on NuCamp losing focus was a bit harsh.
While clearly something has/is changing at NuCamp.  Maybe the funding sources for the big factory expansion and product line expansion have the dreaded, for small business owners, action by investors demanding a hockey stick curve return on investment. We can only guess.  NuCamp's actions would suggest that or something like it is a problem.

Note:
 a)  drop in out-going factory quality many new owners have had
 b)  shifting of parts ordering via dealer
 c)  poorly qualified shifts to new components; air-8 in 400 for one
 d)  questionable design choices away from historical; dark stain, solid bathroom door, cassette

Yes, NuCamp has the right and should be doing things to reduce their costs. Changes like two rear cabinets doors instead of three make sense and don't impact users.  But the air-8 in 400's is a no show, air-8 in 320 eliminates storage.  It is difficult to balance changes and keep the historical value of a product.

NuCamp is on the edge of losing what has made their products special . . . due to the need to pay off that big new factory or investors IMHO.

The new & improved products make it difficult for many current owners to sell T@B to zombies.

I think you minimize the degree that nüCamp  understands the market. If cutting costs were important, there are other ways to do it. The huge freshwater tank is a huge gain, the larger usable bathroom space very cool, and simplicity for first time owners are all big wins.

I agree with Denny. When you watch YouTube videos, you see a growing number of higher end campers and vans with these toilets in the US. 

Carol, when I empty the black tank, I am also back flushing, which requires another adapter (Flush King), connecting and carrying a separate blackwater tank rinse hose.  

IMHO, there is a degree of unpleasantness regardless of which method is used. You can almost always smell something (even if it is the neighbors dumping.)  There are the times when the rock holding the dump station cover moves and there is spillage or the scenario where previous people have spilled and there is no hose to wash off the surface. 

Mouseketab

Oh, I found some pictures of a 2021 CS-S on rvtrader.com

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2021-Nu-Camp-T%40B-320-CS-S-TAB-5011537731

VictoriaP

Mouseketab said:

Oh, I found some pictures of a 2021 CS-S on rvtrader.com

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2021-Nu-Camp-T%40B-320-CS-S-TAB-5011537731

I do like the lighter wood better than the dark. 

Sharon_is_SAM

I really like what they have done to the CSS!  I, too, prefer the light wood.  Removed the galley TV and added a microwave - still lots of galley storage.  The new cooktop looks great!  The galley backsplash is a blank slate - we need some artsy Tab owners to come up with ideas to decorate.  I wonder how efficient the new DC frig is compared to an ARB?  

The inside front counter storage with shelves instead of drawers still works.  They did not show what’s above the counter - assume the same cubbies as the S model.  They also added the new, pull-out slat system.  So, how will a solo camper arrange for a single bed across the back as you can’t sleep front to back in the CSS?  The new sink/toilet arrangement in the CSS really opened up the space - the old head sink is pretty useless.  

ontheroad

@Sharon_is_SAM when Frank and I were at NüCamp we were told by Scott H that it will still be the old fridge...they couldn't fit the "S"'s fridge in because of the depth...it would have made the bed even smaller...and yes we saw the same upper cubbies as the "S", I had also mentioned to Scott that they really need to have the split (back) cushions for the solo traveller that sleeps across the back...like Fran Rorie..Frank and I left NüCamp pretty impressed...the microwave is smaller than the current one in the T@G...now I can't use it for storage and that's good too...no chance of a fire again...

Mouseketab

I do like the water management system. Cleaned up the jumble of piping on the floor under the sink.  But, no matter how well sealed, not sure I like a hatch door that will have to be open when hooked up to City Water or Cable. (Although haven't seen the door closed, are there ports for those items to go through the door?)

The unique bed slat system, while easy, just realized kills the space under the bed when pulled out. Can't put a set of drawers or baskets under there. and WHY OH WHY, do the split CS cushions not come standard........

The microwave takes up pretty much the same cabinet space my 5 gallon tank currently takes, think I much prefer the retrofit some folks have done in the upper cabinet from the old TV space.

I see they killed the FABULOUS drawers in the front cabinet. Drawers are MUCH MORE USEFUL than cabinets.

treefrog

Mouseketab said:

I do like the water management system. Cleaned up the jumble of piping on the floor under the sink.  But, no matter how well sealed, not sure I like a hatch door that will have to be open when hooked up to City Water or Cable. (Although haven't seen the door closed, are there ports for those items to go through the door?)

The hose is sealed well enough to work just fine.

Marceline

MuttonChops said:

Marceline said:

MuttonChops said:

. . .  NuCamp is just focused on their Manufacturing Costs and NOT real user experience.

I don’t think that your last comment is either accurate or fair.  . . .

Just because this change doesn’t suit you personally doesn’t mean that NuCamp isn’t focused on user experience.  . . . 

@Marceline ;  Perhaps my comment on NuCamp losing focus was a bit harsh.
While clearly something has/is changing at NuCamp.  Maybe the funding sources for the big factory expansion and product line expansion have the dreaded, for small business owners, action by investors demanding a hockey stick curve return on investment. We can only guess.  NuCamp's actions would suggest that or something like it is a problem.

Note:
 a)  drop in out-going factory quality many new owners have had
 b)  shifting of parts ordering via dealer
 c)  poorly qualified shifts to new components; air-8 in 400 for one
 d)  questionable design choices away from historical; dark stain, solid bathroom door, cassette

Yes, NuCamp has the right and should be doing things to reduce their costs. Changes like two rear cabinets doors instead of three make sense and don't impact users.  But the air-8 in 400's is a no show, air-8 in 320 eliminates storage.  It is difficult to balance changes and keep the historical value of a product.

NuCamp is on the edge of losing what has made their products special . . . due to the need to pay off that big new factory or investors IMHO.

The new & improved products make it difficult for many current owners to sell T@B to zombies.

I can guarantee you that the Elwell ACs are more expensive than the cheap window units used in the past. This is just one example of how your rant is completely wrong. 

The Elwell has to be more expensive than the old window units. 

Personally I prefer the light stain but it doesn’t seem rational to suggest that they switched to dark stain as some cost-saving measure. I think that you are wrong to ascribe these changes to a desire to cut costs. 

I’ve been really impressed by NuCamp’s receptiveness to feedback.

ontheroad

I truly believe a lot of these changes are so they can streamline parts being used by both T@BS...the interior space used by the fridge is where the CS-S cabinetry is..they both have the same shoilet area now... it will be nice not having to use the same sink to brush my teeth and do dishes in...

Mouseketab

treefrog said:

Mouseketab said:

I do like the water management system. Cleaned up the jumble of piping on the floor under the sink.  But, no matter how well sealed, not sure I like a hatch door that will have to be open when hooked up to City Water or Cable. (Although haven't seen the door closed, are there ports for those items to go through the door?)

The 2021 400 water control box has a 3" hole that comes up from underneath the trailer. You can shut the main hatch but it is not "sealed". Also there is a gap in the 400 at the top of the control box so you should pack steel wool around hose to keep mice out. Not sure if 320 has same layout.

That's Cool. The pictures didn't reflect that

Marceline

If NuCamp hires someone to monitor this forum 24/7 that’s a cost they would have to pass on to consumers. 

Marceline

Mouseketab said:

The unique bed slat system, while easy, just realized kills the space under the bed when pulled out. Can't put a set of drawers or baskets under there. and WHY OH WHY, do the split CS cushions not come standard........

The microwave takes up pretty much the same cabinet space my 5 gallon tank currently takes, think I much prefer the retrofit some folks have done in the upper cabinet from the old TV space.

I see they killed the FABULOUS drawers in the front cabinet. Drawers are MUCH MORE USEFUL than cabinets.

I agree they should split the back cushions for those who sleep wheel to wheel in the CS. There are a bunch of us who leave a twin set up permanently at the back and the redesign should accommodate what’s clearly a popular way of using this trailer. @nuCamp

I’m pretty ambivalent about the microwave and I think that it would better as an option. Getting rid of the TV at the back was the right call. Drawers add weight and reduce storage capacity so there’s a valid reason for that change. Personally I’ve thought that storage cubbies with fabric cubes would be better than the previous chest of drawers but it’s probably not a NuCamp look. 

Verna

At any given time, 2 Volunteer Administrators and 2 Volunteer Moderators are monitoring this forum. 

I have just removed one argumentative statement and I will PM that person to explain why. 

This is a place to discuss without arguments. If anyone wants to argue about what each other posted, please use the Private Message function. 

VictoriaP

Marceline said:

I’m pretty ambivalent about the microwave and I think that it would better as an option. Getting rid of the TV at the back was the right call. Drawers add weight and reduce storage capacity so there’s a valid reason for that change. Personally I’ve thought that storage cubbies with fabric cubes would be better than the previous chest of drawers but it’s probably not a NuCamp look. 

I’d be all for cubbies with fabric drawers except that they’d fall out pretty easily in transit, and hard surfaces are easier to keep clean in a camper. Totally prefer cabinets over big drawers though, I find cabinets more useful.

Marceline

Mouseketab said:

Here are the steps with a cassette in a FHU campsite on a daily basis, because with two people overnight needs only that thing will be full. (Two - Three uses per person each night)
<cut>

The steps for an 8 gallon blackwater tank on a daily basis with hoses already connected
<cut>

First, I think that you’re overestimating how frequently the cassette will need to be dumped.
Second, I think that you should recognize that most T@Bbers aren’t camping at full hookup sites. Only 4 of the 42 people who responded to my survey are camping mostly at FHU sites. It’s great that you enjoy your trailer this way but it’s not really how most people use their T@Bs. 

For those who camp at places where there’s no sewer hookup or maybe even no dump station (most T@Bbers), the cassette will provide more options for getting rid of black waste. For an extended stay (4+ days), currently the only options are to drag around a blue boy or break camp and go to a dump station. Neither option is particularly appealing. 

So although this change might not suit some people, I would hope that people could understand the reasoning behind it. 

Marceline

VictoriaP said

I’d be all for cubbies with fabric drawers except that they’d fall out pretty easily in transit, and hard surfaces are easier to keep clean in a camper. Totally prefer cabinets over big drawers though, I find cabinets more useful.

My cubby idea would involve straps across the front for keeping the cubes in place while in transit. I might still get around to building them for my older CS. But it’s probably not NuCamp style. 

ontheroad

@Marceline , when Frank and I saw the prototype of the CS-S while we were visiting nuCamp that was the first thing I mentioned to Scott...you need to keep the split cushions for those solo traveller...he and Rapheal had never thought how you solo travellers use it.. it raised an issue that they had never thought about...

Denny16

I will add this to the cassette toilet vs black tank issue.  I think short term, it is about equal effort dumping at at Black tank dump point.  Most newer cassettes have a dumping release valve, so the waste does not just come rushing out when tipped.  At a full hookup facility, the pre-setup black tank is a bit quicker and less effort if all you do is pull the lever to dump.

Long term, the cassette toilet is easier to completely flush out, given you can easily get a hose in it for a through rinse as required.   Hard deposits form in a black tank system, that are next to impossible to remove (this is what degrades probe type level monitor accuracy).   It is harder on many black tank setups to completely rinse the tank, unless an internal rinse down system gas been installed.  Not sure how nuCamp’s rinse system works on the TaB400, but it seems to work.

 You can get away with a deodorant type additive in the cassette, to help control any odor.   A cassette toilet is forced through the toilet to its cassette, with positive closing valves when flushed.  Most black tank toilets sit over the black tank and when flushed, simply opens a stopper valve (which requires a water layer over it to help control odors from coming in the camper) and dumps directly into the tank below, so any built up gas can escape inside (outside venting system also required to help control this, and prevent any positive pressures in the tank).

Now the capacity difference on the 320 CS models, is 2 gallons.  The cassette holds 6 gallons, the 320 series black tanks hold 8-gallons, so have about a one day more capacity between dumps.

Is one better than the other?  That depends on the user and what is more convenient to them to use and maintain.  For me, the cassette wins in the ease of use, with the dumping routine and long term maintenance being different.  It is nice to have options, which is what I feel nuCamp is offering.  Smaller, simpler TaB 300 series with cassette system, or the larger TaB400 series with the more traditional black tank system that has twice the capacity (12 gallon black tank) of the TaB 300 series.

Pick which one works for you.
Cheers
 

VictoriaP

Denny16 said:

Now the capacity difference on the 320 CS models, is 2 gallons.  The cassette holds 6 gallons, the 320 series black tanks hold 8-gallons, so have about a one day more capacity between dumps.
 

You’re making a pretty big assumption here that all RVers are able bodied and fit. I can’t lift 6 gallons. Neither can many others, and it’s not just a matter of, “well, exercise more!” The capacity of a cassette, for me, is somewhat less than half that amount, which realistically means more frequent dumping.

I can, however, empty a built in black tank of any size, because all the weight is on the trailer and I don’t have to lift it to a toilet to dump, or lower it to the ground to remove from the trailer.

And “options” would be offering both, not one or the other. I shouldn’t have to pay significantly more for a larger trailer (and possibly bigger tow vehicle) just to get a black tank. I get why they’re doing it, but like it or not, there’s the possibility that they may well be narrowing their customer base with this controversial move. Or, they may be enlarging it. Only time will tell.

pak

I have been reading about both composting and cassette toilet options. Links here have provided videos posted by experienced and articulate people addressing the pros and cons of each system. On balance I prefer the current hose system on my 2017 cs-s. Fortunately, in my working career I dealt with camlock hoses moving noxious fluids(crude oil, fuel etc), so dealing with dump stations and their challenges is not an issue. I suppose the other options have their advantages in some situations. We are primarily 'hook up stop' campers rather than back country and the places we stop fully accommodate our current configuration. I have been reading of places that discourage the dumping of compost and cassette toilets. I suppose over time this will change. Apparently with more and more of the smaller Rvs coming on the scene a change will be necessary. I see the potential weight of the cassette as the biggest drawback. Addressing the other improvements 1) I do like the split cushions and single bed option. 2) I like the modified door and wonder if one could easily swap out an existing door. and 3) I like the the water control box.

Sharon_is_SAM

I don’t see any tank monitors unless they are part of the Nautilus system...