Floored. A rebuild project.

pjalau

This is going to be long and it isn't pretty. Grab a beer.

History: 
We have a 2014 clamshell. It's simple, not overly-burdened with features. Just the closet, bed, A/V and storage. The kitchen is in the back and the only water going through it is external shower and the sink. 

It was purchased from the factory directly in 2014, and has been on a few trips around various national parks. About two years ago, when the stabilizer was put down, the stabilizer went through the floor. It was parked for a couple of years after that trip, placed under a cover (not a garage) and remained in the same location since mid 2018.

I decided to take a "real" look at it now that Covid has locked us down. It reeked of mustiness and moisture after not being opened for at least a year. Camping gear was removed, and the floor was squishy on every step. You know where this is going...

I called around a couple of places, knowing that the floor was going to be replaced before I even started. Austin at Nucamp has been very helpful, and given me a few options. They can do it, but not until September, and let's face it, labor is expensive. So after some discussion with him about what it will take to get this done right, I've decided to remove the interior to lighten it (some of the wood needs replacing anyway) and do this myself. I have done similar work before - I have a VW camper that has a full camp interior. Remove/fix/replace is pretty much a mantra for me.

Lets begin:




It doesn't look bad from the outside.

Let's remove that passenger side bench:






The sealant on the wheel well has completely pulled away. That's not good. Don't be concerned... this will get worse. Let's take away that front bench. Note: the screws are unsurprisingly rusty, and there were a couple that flat out wouldn't move. so the gentle application of a pry bar and a conveniently wet floor allowed those old screws to give up. There will be some refabrication of some of the supporting pieces of wood on the cabinets. There may be some rebuilding all together. T.B.D.



That floor covering came up with no help from me. Let's take a peek underneath. Those with weak constitutions may want to avert your eyes or send the children from the room.





The door seal clearly leaked, you can see how much it spread out. It's not the only location though.

Note: I tried removing the closet, but there are some screws in locations that are near-impossible to reach. I'm holding out on the closet and may just leave it while I remove everything else. 

The most important part of this project is that anything attached to the floor (cables, cabinets, whatever) is un-attached and that the floor can be removed with nothing touching it.

Let's remove the driver side bench.



OK, one almost empty Tab and a vinyl floor ready for inspection. I cut away the small part near the closet and lift up to see the following horror.

(Cue music from Psycho)





And now that I'm looking at it, I realize how blurry that photo is, so I'll post better ones later. But basically, thats a wheel well leak. each step on the floor comes with a cracking sound of wood fibers breaking underneath my weight. 

I spent some time yesterday removing the kitchen, and I'm about 1/4 done. There is a leak near one of the lock handles that is probably due to the sealant not being completely placed around the latch. The sealant is clearly correct on the driver side, I suspect that someone was in a hurry to do the other one during construction.




Next steps:
Finish removing the kitchen.
Identify all the leak points that I can with the vinyl floor removed.
Unbolt the floor from the frame.


Current Plans:
I'm probably going to drive the empty frame to the Nucamp factory and have them install a new Adzel floor. That would save me from shipping costs and probably reduce the risk of me not lining up the floor correctly.

There will definitely be some upgrades as I move along. I'm very much open to suggestions, ideas, hints, tips and occasional "you are doing it wrong" notes. 

Much thanks to everyone on the forum who has already done this and given me enough info to know this is something I can do. 
More thanks to Austin who has been very helpful.

-Peter

CrabTab

Hands down you win the 'Mods and Upgrade During Lockdown Challenge' @pjalau!  There must be a real sense of excitement in your household toward the custom design/build you're undertaking. Looking forward to following along with your progress...

rfuss928

Although I am a very determined and experienced DIY guy, I would suggest letting Austin lift the body off and replace the floor.  It's a project he is very familiar with and they will align and seal everything with the benefit of experience and all the right stuff on hand.  I speak from first hand floor replacement experience and as is often stated on this forum, they are wonderful to work with. 
Have fun!
Bob

pjalau

Bob, I couldn't agree with you more. However, I don't have the funds for their level of precision, and I have a lot of free time. So, might as well make a project out of it. Plus, I can make any modifications I want now that I am very familiar with the construction. Bonus!

rfuss928

Peter, I totally understand.  It is a very manageable project with only a little heavy lifting.  Get plenty of the adhesive and sealant that Austin uses.  While you have the front cabinet apart, take a look at my Potty Drawer mod - one of our (her) favorite mods. 
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/4635/potty-drawer#latest
Have fun and be careful. 
Bob  

pjalau

As promised, more pictures of a completely destroyed floor. There is a common mantra among VW Bus owners, "check your fuel lines". It's our way of reminding each other what the weak link is that could spell disaster for people who don't know that a loose fuel line could cause your pride and joy to go up in flames. 

I suspect the TAB/teardrop corollary is "check your seals". 

P.S. Check your seals.

DougH

Ugh. And I'd just eaten lunch too.

Our model year has the newer azdel and foam floor (confirmed when I drilled through it to add an extra vent fan).  It has had a couple soft spots from day one (I'm guessing the thickness of the top layer is not always perfectly uniform), which made me long for the previous edition more solid feeling plywood floor.  But then I see pics like yours.  I should have heeded your trigger warning.

Sharon_is_SAM

@DougH, you can always add a layer of flooring on top of the current vinyl.  That will eliminate the soft feel.  

DougH

@Sharon_is_SAM ; Good idea. We've talked about it several times. I guess we're waiting to copy another forum member to see what they use (non-wood, lightweight, rigid, but with enough flex for a RV bouncing down the road).

Sharon_is_SAM

Someone added additional flooring a couple years ago.  They posted it - maybe under Mods?

Sharon_is_SAM

Found it!

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/4466#Comment_4466

DougH

Thanks!

gulfarea

pjalau I have built award winning wood boats. My suggestion to you is to to get some 1/8 plywood making up the floor with 2 cross lamination's then glass and epoxy (not fiberglass resin) top and bottom. Total encapsulating the floor. The photo of the boat which was finished in 2002 and always stays outside still has no rot. Art

pjalau

Update: I took a one month hiatus on the project to get myself a new tow vehicle and drive it across the country. I would have liked to have had the tab during the torrential thunderstorms in Badlands NP, but the tent did fine. 

Now that I'm back I took the back kitchen out to remove the rest of the items that are attached to the floor. As expected the floor is completely destroyed all the way to the tail lights. 

I also found that the external plug was both not installed correctly and not sealed, so the external wall had some leakage as well. 

I have a sneaky suspicion that someone was in a hurry when finishing this one, as there are a few external parts that appear to have no sealant at all. (Reminder: check your seals)

I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.

-Peter

pjalau

Further Progress this weekend. I was attempting to remove the trailer from underneath the upper camper shell.

Step one: raise the trailer enough to get under it, not so much that the tension/weight of the trailer causes resistance as you remove the nuts on the mounting bolts.



Step two: Identify the bolts that need to come out. There are three for every leveler, two on each side of the tires, and three more on the front beam.



Step three: WD40. On everything rust colored.

Step four: 9/16th socket and away we go... 

Step five: realize that the floor integrity has rotted so much that there is nothing for the bolt to resist, so it just spins like a tiny little metal ballerina while you lie on the ground creating new expletives. 

Step five point five: Breath out, drink some water, and accept that the job of ripping up the floor from the aluminium frame has arrive. Let's do this. 

Step six: Rubber gloves, a pry bar, a trash bin, some loud music. Heres some of the floor.

Step seven: Repeat ad nauseum until you run out of steam and decide that it is beer time. 
Here's where I am now.  This is the former kitchen




The cabin-




Note, I have found the most egregious part of the leak. The driver side wheel well seal was not properly installed, and the sealant didn't cover a section of the plastic. This channel directed rainwater under the floor and caused the majority of the damage. There were other leaks to be clear - but this was the worst offender.




... to be continued

jgram2

LOL-again-caught myself scanning too quickly and thinking the second photo (of some bolt or another) was from a distance with a boat captain looking out over equipment. I see a cap, glasses, a beard. Good grief I need new glasses.

ChrisFix

pjalau said:

Update: I took a one month hiatus on the project to get myself a new tow vehicle and drive it across the country. I would have liked to have had the tab during the torrential thunderstorms in Badlands NP, but the tent did fine. 

Now that I'm back I took the back kitchen out to remove the rest of the items that are attached to the floor. As expected the floor is completely destroyed all the way to the tail lights. 

I also found that the external plug was both not installed correctly and not sealed, so the external wall had some leakage as well. 

I have a sneaky suspicion that someone was in a hurry when finishing this one, as there are a few external parts that appear to have no sealant at all. (Reminder: check your seals)

I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.

-Peter

Just a note about the external power connection...on my 2021 there is no sealant on that either...the connector has a foam compression seal, and that is it. Looking at the hole and screw spacing, I want to say they are using the same unit today as then, and if that's correct, they didn't forget the sealant, they just don't use it there.

pjalau

Good to know. the seal on this one was a rubber gasket, but it wasn't on tight.

Mouseketab

Most folks who rebuilt their floor themselves, disconnected the body and roof from the frame and floor by unscrewing several bolts at the bottom of the side walls, disconnecting the front wall and back wall connection from the floor, supporting the roof and walls through windows and internal bracing, then rolling the floor and frame out from underneath. Then pulling the old floor off in the pieces you describe.

pjalau

That's the plan. I'll be removing the entire floor out from underneath the shell. I haven't found any threads that show other peoples progress - all links and hints/tips would be appreciated.

rfuss928

The floor, by design, is an integrated structural component that gets its strength from the top and bottom sheets being bonded to the internal aluminum structure.  Much like corrugated cardboard, the strength is dependent on the bonding of the layers or it is just three sheets of paper.  The rigid platform has to be recreated before the floor will properly support the weight of the trailer.   During construction and most successful rebuilds the completed floor assembly is installed on the frame before the trailer body is installed.  
pjalau  It looks like your well along on your rebuild.  Find the fun in all you do!
Bob

Denny16

At some point the body shell will need to come off to fit the new floor, which should be one or two pieces.
cheers

Mouseketab

If you are on the T@B Facebook Groups, search for Gid Honsinger or Dale Andree, or Elizabeth Headley on Floor Rebuild pictures

pjalau

Thanks Carol, much appreciated, will look that up. I've reached the point where I need to figure out how to prop the shell up while I remove the frame/trailer. 

Some more steps in the process:

-Remove tire so you have access to the plastic wheel well - there are four screws and washers behind the tire, and two screws under the side rails. 

-The side rails are going to be a slow gentle process, I has to insert a screwdriver, and slowly, gently apply force to get the seals to peal away without bending the rails. I counted at least three types of sealants, so I think it's fair to say that this part was assembled well. 

-I should also note that if anyone is concerned that the tyvek seal that is the waterproofing on the bottom is risky, I can assure you it's not. It is very good at holding water in as well as out.

I have one side completed, will finish the other before the weekend.

Sharon_is_SAM

I see a 2 x 2 in the front of the frame and I know that piece continues to be part of the TaB construction.  Anyone worry about rot from that piece?

pjalau

That part appears to be pretty well sealed up and protected by the aluminium frame. I'm pretty sure that it adds some mild structural stability, but reducing the movement for the floor rails. The ends are rotted on mine as the water leaked in the wheel well. I'll know more when I pull off the other side. 

-P

Geo

@pjalau .  A complete floor replacement is possible to do yourself. There are several threads here on folks who have done it. When I did ours in '16 I was very intimidated by the project at first, however once I got started the main issue was all the screws needing removal knowing they would need to be replaced. 
The CS model may be different but my DM '04Q used 5 large screws along the bottom of each side to secure the shell/body to the floor plus the screws along bottom of front edge and rear sloped area.
I used a 2" pipe through the front handles and a 4"x4" through my cargo doors to jack up and support the shell while I rolled the frame-floor out from under and new back in.Our old floor looked just as bad as yours !

ChrisFix

Wow...great projects both of you!
Interesting to see how it comes apart and goes together!

pjalau

And now the other side has been removed, the 18 screws holding the front to the floor have been undone, and about half of the rear diamond plate parts have been undone. I may have the shell off the floor by tomorrow.

A large portion of the back rail is designed as an airbox to hold the wires for the lights.

Geo

@pjalau (commented on your posting to my wall - but not sure I know how to send an answer there)
In order to wrap the "bottom board" (fiberglass bottom fabric) up under the front skin you will most likely have to remove the diamond plate rock guard.

pjalau

And a little more this weekend - it's almost completely of the frame, I just need to finish up on the front beam and the trailer will roll away. The diamond plate in the front has to be removed, there are several screws that hold the frame hidden underneath it. 





Here I've cut away most of the Tyvek underlayment. 



The rear cross beam on the frame is glued to the rear cross beam on the shell with some magical substance that is very difficult to remove. I've been using a long thin blade to release it and letting the weight continue using gravity pressure for it to drop.




As always, to be continued.