Alde 3020 - heat only from bed vents

N7SHG_Ham

@lisadbricker there was a repair shop in southern California someplace that was servicing Alde's and offering glycol changes. They seemed to maybe know more than many dealers and actually had the Alde service pump which very few dealers seem to have.

Does anyone actually recall the name of the shop?

Bayliss

@lisadbricker, I believe that @N7SHG_Ham may be referring to Enhanced Performance Systems in San Diego.  There is nothing on their website that references it, but I recall that one of the owners, a T@B owner, announced at some point that they are doing glycol exchanges.  I do not know if they are an authorized dealer for Alde repairs, but give them a call at (619)-663-5849 and see if they can help you out.  Ask for John Schilling, but anybody there should be able to let you know if they work on the Alde.

Since the trailer is under warranty, you can contact nuCamp, but they will likely refer you to Truma/Alde, so you might as well start with them first.  If Enhanced Performance Systems can't help you out, then Truma/Alde can direct you to the nearest service center.  BUT, regardless of who does the warranty work, get a pre-authorization from Truma/Alde first.  Otherwise, you may be stuck paying the bill.

Below is the Enhanced Performance Systems website, but again, there is nothing I could find there regarding the glycol exchange:

https://www.enhancedperformancesystems.com/

lisadbricker

Wow, thank you @Bayliss and @N7SHG_Ham !! That is so helpful. I’m very grateful for this forum and the T@B community. You guys are amazing. 🙏

Verna

Contact Alde. After spending this much time, the manufacturer is the one to contact. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@lisadbricker - time to call Alde.  Get a step by step process from the horse’s mouth.  Should the pump be circulating or not as you try to bleed?  Should you lay the radiator down in the bathroom in order to bleed?  Should both pumps be turned up to a set speed, etc.  Please share whatever you find out and ask about the odor.

Sharon_is_SAM

Found this regarding the odor:  https://nucamprv.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/44001783701-chemical-smell

AirBoss

Bummer. Majorly so. 

I'd like to believe you can take the rig to the nearest T@B dealer for service. I'd be shocked if you had to return to the dealership where you purchased it. But stranger things have happened and this would not be the first mistake I made today...and it's only 0800 here! 

My understanding is contact dealer first and that's what nuCamp warranty folks will tell you, though it doesn't hurt to advise nuCamp of the issue. 

I can recommend a Alde authorized service shop. I live near Carlsbad and just had them out to do some warranty work in my rig two days ago (not Alde related). They were on time, diligent, and left my driveway and garage just as they found it. 

The dealership where I purchased is Little Guy Trailers in Kearny Mesa.  Good folks but they aren't really geared for service work. They'd likely ship it out to a contractor anyway. 

If you'd like the contact info, shoot me a PM and I'll get back to you ASAP. 

AirBoss

Bayliss said:

@lisadbricker, I believe that @N7SHG_Ham may be referring to Enhanced Performance Systems in San Diego.  There is nothing on their website that references it, but I recall that one of the owners, a T@B owner, announced at some point that they are doing glycol exchanges.  I do not know if they are an authorized dealer for Alde repairs, but give them a call at (619)-663-5849 and see if they can help you out.  Ask for John Schilling, but anybody there should be able to let you know if they work on the Alde.

Since the trailer is under warranty, you can contact nuCamp, but they will likely refer you to Truma/Alde, so you might as well start with them first.  If Enhanced Performance Systems can't help you out, then Truma/Alde can direct you to the nearest service center.  BUT, regardless of who does the warranty work, get a pre-authorization from Truma/Alde first.  Otherwise, you may be stuck paying the bill.

Below is the Enhanced Performance Systems website, but again, there is nothing I could find there regarding the glycol exchange:

https://www.enhancedperformancesystems.com/

Shame on me for not scrolling up on this thread before my most recent post. Yep, these are the folks. And yes, John and his shop recently were approved as Alde services providers. John owns a 320 and is very familiar with T@B's. 

I have John's cell number if you need it. Good luck!

lisadbricker

@Sharon_is_SAM Thanks for that link about the glycol smell. It isn’t really a chemical smell, and our level is now just under the max, so I know it isn’t due to low glycol levels. Some info I found said that if the glycol was stinky (like a fish smell, which is closer to what it seems like) that it was time to change it, but we just purchased our T@B last summer and took delivery of it in mid-September when it arrived at the dealership from the factory. I can’t imagine the glycol would need changing already! 

As others have said, it’s obviously time to call Alde and/or get some professional help from a shop that’s trained/familiar with Alde. As for it being warranty work, I need authorization from Alde not NuCamp, right? I will come back and report what I learn and what is done to fix the problem. In the meantime, if anyone has any additional advice about how to handle this, I’ll take it. Thank you all again!

AirBoss

You make a warranty claim through an authorized nuCamp dealer. They'll notify nuCamp of the claim and arrange for the work to be performed by the appropriate service provider. At least that's how it went for me with the Black Tank Backflush issue. 

You shouldn't have to contact Alde directly if the T@B is still under nuCamp warranty timeframe. 

lisadbricker

But if I’m going to try to have the work done at a shop that isn’t a dealership (for example: Enhanced Performance Systems) how would it work? Is it not possible to have warranty work done someplace other than an authorized NuCamp dealer?

One last question also, because I’m still hoping that our issue is a stubborn airlock that somehow we can fix ourselves: on the NuCamp website there are instructions regarding clearing a red overheat fail and it mentions that the failure occurs due to air in the system that needs clearing. We haven’t received any failure alert on our panel. Everything on our control panel looks normal. Would that happen with a stubborn airlock? And the instructions to clear it indicate the trailer should be tilted to allow the expansion tank to be elevated as high as possible. So in our case that would mean raising the tongue not lowering it, in order to tilt the trailer back and elevate the glycol tank that’s up in the dinette area. We tilted the trailer back and forth when we were at our campsite, but weren’t able to lift the tongue very high, and we didn’t keep it tilted very long. When we got home we only tilted it forward with the tongue lowered and left it that way for a while, but according to Creed/NuCamp, that’s actually the opposite of what we should have done. So could it be possible that our problem is still an airlock? And yes, I know, I should just call Alde, but I want to make sure I’m documenting all thoughts/possibilities here for the record. 

Denny16

I would call Customer Service at nüCamp, and have them recommended a dealer close to where you are to take the trailer in and have the Alde sorted.
Good luck.
cheers

AirBoss

I can only speak from my experience here. I had to contact my dealer, who consulted with nuCamp on the nature of the issue and the repairs needed. In my case it wasn't a "system" issue involving a supplier component. It was a plumbing issue from the factory. 

Regardless, warranty issues are dealt with through the dealerships. If they cannot perform the work themselves (like perhaps in your case) nuCamp should instruct them on who can/should perform the work. The factory warranty if offered thru nuCamp, not thru Alde. Othewise, as customers, we'd be chasing all over the place to find Dometic, Alde, Victron, Thetford, etc. service folks. You paid for the warranty in your purchase price and the dealers represent nuCamp in such matters.  

I'm not saying this would be the case here because nuCamp is pretty darn good about warranty issues but I have had experience in RV warranty repairs where a dealer failed to collaborate with the manufacture (unbeknownst to me) and I was caught up in a three way battle over who is going to cover the cost. 

I would not go any further in troublshooting your issue. Contact your dealer. Advise nuCamp warranty folks. Let them handle it. 

AmyS

I did consult the dealer and they sent photos to Nucamp. Today it started leaking Glycol in fact I think pretty much all of it came out. There was glycol dripping outside glycol on the floor in the dinette. This happened just as I was moving out of my campsite. I’m using a small electric heater for now. 

bergger

I bet you have a persistent airlock that can't be cleared by raising and lowering the trailer.  The whole system may need to be purged of glycol and refilled using the alde pump.

AirBoss

Sounds like it's time to find a qualified Alde service tech and start fresh. 

lisadbricker

I’m not trying to beat a dead horse here, and I have reached out to NuCamp for guidance, but I did want to contribute another update for anyone else who might be reading this thread in search of answers about Alde/heat malfunction (it does sort of seem like a frequent complaint, especially with 2021 T@B 400s—at least from what I’m seeing here and on FB groups). Anyway, I did discover the bleed valve that @TAOSMAC mentioned was under the sink (see photo below) and I opened that valve in the hopes that my issue was still a stubborn airlock that I might fix myself. That valve did let out air before glycol started draining, so I was hopeful at first. However, I noticed that the glycol that drained out from that area had little white flecks in it (see photo below) which might be similar to what @TAOSMAC mentioned also. With both the white flecks and the off smell of the glycol, I haven’t tried again to heat my T@B. It does seem best to wait to hear back from NuCamp. In the meantime I just thought I’d give more info on my situation for anyone else who is trying to troubleshoot this. The more we know, right?

AirBoss

Certainly hope you get that situation figured out ASAP. And thanks for sharing your situation. It sounds as though there are others on here who are experiencing similar issues and this can be helpful.

Please continue to keep us posted. 

lisadbricker

Oops, I just realized I didn’t check the size of my photos before uploading. They might be too big.🙁

Edit: yep, just got a message that my pics were too big. I have edited that post and resized the pictures. Hopefully correctly. 🤞🏻

TAOSMAC

I was hoping to get back to all of you last week with an update on my Alde repairs. Because of the weather and a few other delays, I wasn’t able to pick up my 400 in Santa Fe, but will try again next week. After I pick up the 400 I plan to test the Alde system for a few days.

lisadbricker

I finally heard back from NuCamp today. This is what Creed said:

“The only time I have seen white buildup in the Alde is when different brands of glycol are mixed. We would have used Century Chemical TF1 transfer fluid, and would only have had that glycol in our facility. If glycol is added that isn’t Century Chemical it can cause a chemical reaction that results in a white substance forming.

 If you haven’t added anything besides century I would contact your original dealer to double check that they didn’t as well. If glycol wasn’t mixed it would have to be some internal factory fault from Alde I haven’t heard of before.

 First step would be getting the Alde completely flushed to ensure the Glycol in the system is good to use.”

Since the backup glycol I purchased to have on hand is in fact the Century TF1 transfer fluid, the ONLY way that another brand/type of glycol could have been in my system is if the dealership (Apache in Portland, OR) put something else in there. Not sure why they would do that. But no one seems to have any other answers about what that white stuff could be. And if glycols were mixed and created a “white substance” then maybe it clogged things up and makes sense that it stopped circulating properly. Creed didn’t say anything about the bad smell of the glycol, but maybe that also happens when two brands are mixed??

I’m still in the same boat of having to find a place to service/drain/flush my Alde system. But I thought I’d update with the NuCamp response for anyone else who reads this thread.

Bayliss

@lisadbricker, did you see my earlier post on a possible location (in San Diego) to drain and refill your Alde?

lisadbricker

Bayliss said:

@lisadbricker, did you see my earlier post on a possible location (in San Diego) to drain and refill your Alde?

Yes, thank you! I had been waiting to hear back from NuCamp in case it would be something that was covered by warranty, or if they had any other suggestions about something we could try ourselves.  Doesn’t look like that’s the case, so I’ll give Enhanced Performance Systems a call and see if they can do the work. 

AirBoss

@lisadbricker
I had EPS out at my place a couple weeks ago on another matter. I believe he mentioned they can do the Alde service remotely so you don't have to bring the rig to their shop. Hopefully I haven't led you astray.

Keep us posted on the progress. As mentioned I'm in Carlsbad area and will likely use EPS next year, if all goes well. 

Cheers,

lisadbricker

Update: I received another email from Creed recommending a shop here in SoCal called 10/40 Overland to do the Alde service. He also said we shouldn’t turn the Alde on at all, not even for hot water, until we get it flushed/refilled, which is a bummer because we have a 4 day camping trip next weekend for my husband’s 50th birthday. We won’t need heat, but hot water sure would have been nice.   

Has anyone here heard of 10/40 Overland? 

rhyno

@lisadbricker - I'd recommend keeping a sample of what comes out and also to ask whomever does the glycol flush for their $.02 on whether they think there was two types of glycol mixed as well as their take on the chances of any corrosion or other damage done to the system. Even if nothing can be done about it warranty-wise, it will be good to know.

Sharon_is_SAM

@lisadbricker - just so you know, there is not a separate heat source for water.  The water is heated by the same electric elements or LPG burner that heats the glycol for cabin heat.  Hot water without cabin heat is possible if you turn down the thermostat below ambient temperature which then prevents the glycol pump from running.  Hopefully the Alde service will go well and you will be back in business.

BridgerSunset

Just looking at your pics, those white specs have a similar look as calcium scale I've regularly found in normal camper hot water tanks.  Makes me wonder if someone blended concentrated Century fluid with hard (non-distilled) water - resulting in typical calcium carbonate scale dropping out once heated.  That could plug or restrict piping, certainly.

If you can capture some of those white specs and see if they dissolve in vinegar, it may indicate that possibility anyway. 
*******
For the forum:   not likely; but is there any way the water system could breach & leak into the glycol system in a new T@B?

Denny16

Not likely, hot water tank is stainless steel, here is a cutaway diagram:

Sharon_is_SAM

@BridgerSunset - you are not supposed to use the hot water for consumption for various reasons, but if there was a co-mingling, the glycol will not kill you.  

@Denny16 - I can never tell by the picture, are the electric elements bathed in the glycol?