Alde 3020 - heat only from bed vents

AmyS

I’ve had my tab before hundred for three months now. It was heating wonderful even in the mid 20s. Two days after changing propane tank it stopped heating properly. 

Only the vents from the bed were working. 

Could not get over 65°. 

I thought at first that maybe there was air in the propane tank but the cooktop works and I was getting heat from the bed vents. 

Compensate compensate I bought a little electric handy heater. It’s done the trick except for the bathroom lol however it doesn’t solve the issue. 

The glycol is circulating properly and it is at a proper level. 

Anyone ever have this issue or have any idea of what could be wrong? 

Thank you

TerryHutchinson

One thought, are you certain it is using the propane for heat? Or could it be using shore power?  If on shore power, there are two settings - 1 kw/hr and 2 kw/hr.  If on the lower setting, heating might be insufficient in very cold weather.

Sharon_is_SAM

In the TaB 320 model, the only heat vents are behind the rear shelf and under the bed (at the top of the benches). Keep the bed linen away from the vent.  Are you keeping the Alde on continuously?  It can take a long while to overcome a very cold TaB as all the surfaces will be very cold.  I agree with Terry - if on shorepower, run the Alde turned all the way up on electric and keep the propane on.  The combination will heat the TaB faster.  Then, after the cabin temperature drops below your set temp, the propane will kick back on.

AmyS

Thank you for your responses. I have a tab 400 Boondock 2021.  It is supposed to heat in the bathroom. I had to controls set correctly the glycol is circulating. It worked great in freezing weather prior to me changing out a propane tank. Then I’m not sure what happened because the cooktop still worked but it was no longer heating in the bathroom or any other vents but by the bed.

for example in cold weather my propane tank would generally be changed every four days. I started tracking it when I had only one propane tank and continue to do so now that I have two. 
When all this started it was a couple days after I changed the propane tank. I put a new propane tank in January 9 and I did not have to change it until January 30. 

It’s very odd and until I figure it out I won’t be able to Boondock which I miss. 

Hopefully there’s somebody out there who has experience the same thing. Lol 

Tampakayaker

Sharon_is_SAM said:

In the TaB 320 model, the only heat vents are behind the rear shelf and under the bed (at the top of the benches). Keep the bed linen away from the vent.  Are you keeping the Alde on continuously?  It can take a long while to overcome a very cold TaB as all the surfaces will be very cold.  I agree with Terry - if on shorepower, run the Alde turned all the way up on electric and keep the propane on.  The combination will heat the TaB faster.  Then, after the cabin temperature drops below your set temp, the propane will kick back on.

Though not the OPs question, I have a question about the 320 heat.

Tested the Alde the other day in preparation for this weekend camping.  Really haven't used it before (we live in FL).

I had plenty of heat coming out at the rear vents behind the bed, but little or no heat coming out of the vent under the passenger bed.

Does it just take longer for that area to heat up?

85Redwood

The Tab400 has a single heating loop...the glycol circulates so if one part of the loop gets heated glycol it all will.  What are your Alde heat settings?  Propane on/off?  Electric 1kw/2kw/off?  Try just propane for many hours then just 2kw electric for many hours to determine what the root cause is.

Katydid

When I had questions on how to set up my Alde on my 2021 boondock I called Alde and they couldn’t have been more helpful. They stayed on the phone with me and walked me through step by step .

ScottG

Tampakayaker said:
...

I had plenty of heat coming out at the rear vents behind the bed, but little or no heat coming out of the vent under the passenger bed.

Does it just take longer for that area to heat up?

It's possible. If you check out the 320 plumbing schematic (attached) you see that the hot glycol passes first through the rear convector, then loops through the left convectors, then returns through the rear before heading back to the Alde.

When everything is cold, that first stop along the rear convector is going to draw off a lot of heat. This would likely be exacerbated at start up when the glycol itself is not all that hot. Eventually things should equalize and the heat will be distributed more evenly.

Same could happen in the 400, though I don't know how the loop is configured in those units, or what area gets the heat first. It is suspicious that AmyS's problem surfaced with a propane tank change. I'd bet a nickel TerryHutchinson is on to something--maybe the propane is not getting through and the electric heaters (particularly on the lower setting) may not be keeping up. Just guessin' here, though.

AmyS

This is all very interesting @ScottG thank you if the propane is not getting through- how would I fix this? 

I know a friend used some kind of product similar to canned  air on his barbecue when propane wasn’t getting through. 

ScottG

@AmyS, that's a big "if" based on what was just a weak guess on my part. Here is what I would try first...

• Shut down the Alde completely.
• Turn off your propane at the tank.
• Disconnect all power to the camper--shore power and battery.

No go for a long walk. When you return...

• Reconnect your power supply.
• Slooooowwwwly open the valve on the propane tank.
• Set the Alde for "hot water only" and start it ONLY on propane (i.e., no electric heaters).

The Alde will go through a start-up cycle involving a series of whirs and clicks. If it is not getting propane it will shut itself down in short order. If it fires up and stays running (you might need to confirm this by going outside and listening to the vent) then propane supply is not your issue.

I had an issue last season where my Alde wouldn't start on propane after I had swapped out a tank. After doing the above it worked fine. Try it out and report back what happens!  

AmyS

Great when I get back this afternoon I will try that and let you know thank you

Denny16

The glycol for the Alde in a TaB 400 flows from Alde heater (and Flo in later models) to the rear under bunk heater and on around the coach as shown below:

As you can see in the diagram above, the heated Glycol circulates around to the front dinette and then to the washroom before returning the the expansion tank shown in the closet here 2018/ 2019 models*.  The washroom is the last part of the loop and last space to get heated.
*For later models or units with the large 3-way fridge, the reservoir/expansion tank is in the left side front dinette up by the round port hole window area.  Also, there are small radiator units under the front dinette round windows, that I’ did not show in my simplified diagram above.

So it takes a bit for all the areas to get properly heated, especially the washroom, which is at the end of the circulation loop.  Changing the propane tank will not effect the circulation, the Alde boiler is heating everything or nothing, as long as the circulation pump/s are working.  Later model TaB400s with the Flo have two circulation pumps.

Once the Alde system gets heated up, after about 30-60 minutes, you should feel heat coming up from behind the bed, galley counter, under the round windows in the dinette and under the table center area, then the radiator unit in the washroom/head.
You should also see the glycol level moving up and down in the reservoir/expansion tank.  Check your Glycol level in the reservoir tank, you may be low on glycol which would account for your Alde circulation issue. 
Cheers

AirBoss

Just an FYI and apologies if perhaps I misread this @Denny16, but in my unit, the expansion tank is located in the drivers-side dinette cubby against the front wall (to the right as you look out the porthole window). 

Seems coincedental that this issue arose after swapping out the LP tank. I'd like to think they're unrelated. Dunno.

I also agree with @ScottG. Shut everything down in the proper sequence and begin again. 

May not be related but during my last adventure I did have an issue with the Alde not firing up properly. After shutting off power and LP, I opened the top panel on the Alde, disconnected the three wires located on top of the unit (two electrical and one "ethernet" style if I recall correctly), waited a couple minutes, reconnected, turned shore power and LP back on and...Voila...heat. 

The old classic PC Helpdesk trick...when in doubt, reboot.  

Denny16

AirBoss, I did add a comment in Italic that the newer TaB 400s had the expansion tank in the front dinette area.  But I agree, thenOP’s glycol level may just be too low for proper circulation.  If all that checks out than Scott’s suggestion to reboot is good. 
cheers

AirBoss

Yep, saw that but at least in my 2020 the tank is not between the dinette heater and the washroom, it's between the dinette heater and the front wall. A minor point...but just for clarity. 

Gotta love the reboots! It's kinda like humans. Every once in a while we all have a synapse misfire. It's best to simply shut it down and start over! 

Denny16

Thanks AirBoss, was not trying to be specific about its location, but generally where it was in the circulation chain.
cheers

AirBoss

Yessir! And FWIW, I have noticed from time to time if the rig is cold, it does take a bit to get sufficient heat radiating from the "downstream" radiators. Patience is a virtue...or so I'm told! 

lisadbricker

My husband and I are camping in Joshua Tree this weekend without hookups and are having the exact issue that @AmyS described. We also have a 2021 400 Boondock and have never had any issues with the Alde keeping us nice and warm when camping in cold temps. This weekend, though, we can’t get the trailer up to temp, and the only place we feel heat coming up is in the back by the bed. We thought maybe it was because we are at a higher altitude so tonight (our second night) we’ve activated the high altitude setting and are waiting to see if it will work. So far it doesn’t seem to be. We had also just filled/replaced our propane tank since we are dry camping without any hookups. 

lisadbricker

@AmyS, how did you know your glycol was circulating properly? We’ve checked/tried everything we can think of to figure out why heat is only coming up from the rear bed area, and the only explanation seems to be that the glycol ISN’T circulating. The Alde itself is definitely on and working, so we are guessing the pump isn’t working but have no idea why or what to do. 

Did you find a solution to your problem?

Denny16

Have you checked the Alde glycol fluid level?

Cheers

lisadbricker

Yes, our glycol is full (actually slightly over the max line right now). It just seems as though the heated glycol isn’t circulating. How can you tell if it is? Or if the pump is operating properly?

Sharon_is_SAM

Find the black, rubber glycol runs under and behind the sink, under the table and in the bathroom and feel them to see if they are warm.  Also, check the Alde glycol temperature in the service menu.

bergger

The glycol in our 2021 400 actually gurgles in the expansion tank and moves around in the tank when it is heating.  I assume that is due to the circulation?  Does yours do that?

AirBoss

Air trapped in the line?
Which mode are you in...thermostat or circulation and do hear gugling in circ mode? 

lisadbricker

We’ve checked the glycol temp in the service menu and it is definitely being heated. The Alde is on and we can hear it doing it’s thing under the bed, and we get heat only from the bed area (and plenty of hot water). We haven’t noticed gurgling, or movement of the glycol in the expansion tank. We are normally in therm mode, but I changed it to continuous circulation last night to see if that would make a difference. It didn’t. Could it be air trapped in the line? But doesn’t the Alde have an automatic bleed to prevent that? Right now we have disconnected all power (propane and battery) and are going to restart everything as someone above suggested. I don’t think that will do anything but we are trying all suggestions at this point. 

AirBoss

FYI, per the Alde 3020 Manual:

To bleed the heating system manually, follow the steps below:
1. Switch off the circulation pump.
2. Open the bleeder screw and leave it open until it starts to discharge glycol.
3. Close the bleeder screw.
4. Open the remaining bleeder screws in the system (please refer to the instruction manual of the RV for their locations).
5. Leave the bleeder screws open until they start discharging fluid and then close them.
6. Start the LP Gas operation on the heating system.
7. Start the circulation pump and let it run for a while. Normal setting, speed 2. Bleeding, speed 5.
8. Check that the pipes and convector’s around the vehicle are heating up. NOTICE Never open the bleeder screws while the pump is running, because this will induce air into the system. 

Just in case...

lisadbricker

The restart didn’t change anything. We will try bleeding the system, although I’m kind of intimidated by that. How do you turn off the circulation pump? I only know how to change settings from therm to circ in the control panel. Is there an actual on/off for the pump? We looked at the pump last night and saw that its speed was set at 2, but could tell nothing else about it. Also, what info should I be seeing or looking for in the service option on the control panel? Some people say you can tell if the pump in circulating by that info, but I don’t see anything about the pump. It does seem like the pump is the issue, but I don’t know how to check its status. 

lisadbricker

Actually both circulation pumps (the one connected to the larger Alde system, and the one connected to the Flo) seem to be working. They both vibrate when either heat of hot water are turned on. Should they be set at the same speed? One was set to 3 and one to 2 as a default. If both pumps work fine, and glycol is full, and the Alde is heating both the glycol and the water, could the only possible problem be air in the line? Because no matter what we’ve tried there is no heat in the glycol lines past the rear bed area. The rest of the vents and the radiator in the bathroom stay cold. 

bergger

I bet you have air in the line.  Not sure how that would get in there if it worked fine before?  You should see movement in the expansion tank if the glycol is circulating around the whole system..

lisadbricker

We tried opening the bleed valve in the bathroom and glycol immediately spilled out. Then we closed it and tried tilting the trailer forward and backward, then opened the valve again. Glycol immediately came out. Could the automatic bleed we have not be working for some reason? And where are there other valves for bleeding manually in a trailer that shouldn’t need to be bled manually?? Sorry I’m being so high-maintenance, but we are really at a loss about why our glycol isn’t circulating and our trailer can’t get heat. We’re on our last night of camping in JT and all we’ve done is try to solve this. 😢 Thank you to all who have made suggestions. Did @AmyS ever fix her problem from this original post?

Sharon_is_SAM

Someone in the last week wrote about how they were able to get the air out of their glycol lines.  Anybody remember that thread?