Figuring out Alde/battery/propane/ refrigerator

sjanin

I have a new to me T@B S Max 2015 in which I purchased this winter. It has been a rough road learning by mistakes and figuring out out my first RV. I had no idea it would be this big of a money pit and so much tinkering. I am looking to get this camper dialed so that I can finally enjoy it. It has been working great on shore power or on an obnoxiously loud generator. I cannot seem to go boon docking with solely propane and battery though, which I was told was possible. So this weekend took it out and right away my Alde died and I had no heat- the light keeps blinking. I read in this forum that it has to do with lack of power which I have no idea how to check??? I read that I have to have some at least 10v of battery power which I should have had due to driving for 6 hours. Now thats another question...does my battery charge while driving? or only on shore power and generator? Next my refrigerator died that same night the heat went out. I had 4 more nights of camping and I was without a cooler or ice. I figured it was working because the green light stayed on but I found out soon that the green light truly means nothing. I attempted to start the fridge again and just heard clicking so I figured the ignitor went out...that was until I got home and tried it again and it worked right away. Now was it the battery? I tried the Alde again and was able to get heat but the red light kept blinking. What does this mean? Do I need to get a second battery? I checked the charge of this battery and it is good. Any advice as to diagnosing what is going on would be much appreciated before I attempt to take it to the RV service center. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Ok, your TaB battery will charge on shorepower, with a generator and while being towed if you have a charge wire as part of your tow vehicle 7 pin harness.  Even with a charge wire, many tow vehicles can not keep the battery charged if you are towing with the frig on battery as it draws 11 amps/hr.  

We’re you running the frig on propane or DC battery when it quit?  When it worked at home, were you on shorepower?  

What are you using to check battery voltage?

ColoradoSun

Even when set to propane the Alde does need 12V power from your battery to work. What was the charge of the battery when you checked? Running a battery below 12.1V very often will shorten the battery life. The amount of charging from your tow vehicle to the trailer battery can vary widely. In many cases it's not much.
The switch with the green light on our T@B is only turned on when the 3-way refrigerator is set to power off the 12V battery. That is to prevent accidentally running it on 12V which can rapidly drain down the battery.
Have you checked the level of the propane tank? Does the gas stove top work okay?

pthomas745

First...lets check your Manuals. 

You have the Alde 3010 with the analog panel.

Find it on this page. https://www.alde.us/manuals-and-documents/

Next....which fridge do you have?  You say you have an S with a 3 way fridge?  If so, running a 3 way fridge on 12V is......costly on battery power.  My 2017 3 way will consume 13 or more amps in an hour.  On my "stock" 80 amp hour battery...that is good for just about 3 hours (I should only use 40 amp hours for maximum life of the battery.  I believe the fridge is the Norcold 180.3

Here is a thread with other threads that talk about the 3 way fridge on "battery" power and how it just isn't useful to even try. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7963/battery-fridge-towing

Next:  how big is your battery?  Tell us what battery you have, and we can tell you how many "amp hours" you have to use.

Welcome to the Forums:  It will take a bit to figure out what is what and how things work.  Take these items in your trailer one step at a time, and it will all work for you!

sjanin

Thank you all for getting back to me with lots of helpful information.

I was running my refrigerator on the battery while towing and once at the campsite switched it over to propane. It lasted that one night and then went out. The propane tank was just filled so it was plenty full. I figured since my fridge and heat both went out I had some kind of connection issue with my propane tank?

It seems like even with the 7 pin charge line that the battery does not charge that well. Do you all connect into a generator when you camp right away? Or plug into electrical right away? That's a tough one if you roll up late at night but I guess I will bring a cooler with ice from now on. 

My gas stove worked great and did not have any issues at all. So it seems like what you all are saying is that I need to have adequate battery power for all these things appliances to run even when on propane. 

I guess I will need to look more in depth into my battery and possibly get another one along with solar. That is for another discussion though. 

But the next thing I need to figure out is why my Alde light is blinking. Maybe my battery is still too low after an 8 hour drive? 
"Red LED flashes if the voltage to the boiler goes below 10,5 V (automatic resetting at higher voltage)"

pthomas745

If you can find the specific model of fridge in the trailer (I'm assuming it is the very power hungry 3 way) you might find the source of your problem.  On my trailer, my tow vehicle will not keep up with the 13 amp per hour drain of my fridge on battery power.  It might keep up with about a third or a half of that.  I can use 40 amp hours of my battery before I draw it down below 50 percent capacity.  So....after 5 hours, at 6 amp hours per hour....that means I've used 30 of my 40 usable amp hours.....and probably more.

Basically.....I'm guessing you are pulling into a campsite with an already depleted battery.  Your Alde will shut off at 10.5 amps.  There are not many tow vehicles that can keep up with that 13 amp draw of an older 3 way fridge.

The strategy for the 3 way fridge and saving power:  Precool it for a day or so before hitting the road.  Store things like frozen bottles of ice inside the fridge, and turn it off just before hitting the road.  My fridge is an excellent cooler, and things can stay reasonably "coldish" while on the road.  When you get to the campsite, use propane

Sharon_is_SAM

@sjanin - Make sure you precool the frig on AC well in advance of travel.  Due to the high amp draw of the frig while on DC, some owners will tow with the frig on propane - which is controversial due to safety.  Another thing you can do is freeze water bottles and put them in the frig just before towing and leave the frig closed until arrival.  You can also put the frig on DC control for an hour or two then turn off for an hour or two and repeat.  

If you plan to boondock you really need a way to monitor your battery.  Even a simple plug in 12v monitor will get you started while you learn battery management.  A more permanent solution is a built in battery monitor.  Plenty of info here on the forum about these items.  And as you indicated, you need to understand how much power you use and need on a daily basis.  From that you will understand your need to increase battery capacity.

As ColoradoSun noted, many tow vehicles basically trickle charge the battery - not enough to overcome a deeply depleted battery.

Regarding the red light - if you have a battery switch, turn it off and put a smart charger on your battery.  Check to make sure your battery is fully charged.  Then see if the red light goes off.  If that doesn’t work, and your battery is full, then you need to interrupt the DC power by either removing the Alde plug, or just remove the battery fuse for a short time.  Then replace the fuse and see if the light remains off.  

Also, not sure if you know about phantom drain and the need for a battery switch.  I think the 2015 model did not come with a switch.

ChanW

Also note that the battery switch must be ON (ie: not 'cutoff') in order to charge the battery, either via the seven pin or via shore power.

I agree, it sounds as though your tow vehicle was unable to keep your battery charged while driving, because of the fridge, so you ended up with a depleted battery when you arrived. BTDT! Sorry - frustrating.

The Alde red light will blink this error indication when your battery is too low (also when the propane is low, from what I recall).

Ice is your friend - we have a few frozen quart bottles in the fridge when we start out, as well as some in the cooler in the back of the truck. 

Keep at it, and keep asking!

ScottG

@sjanin, welcome. You have a lot of questions but you are in the right place to get help!

The issues you describe could all trace back to low battery voltage. The Alde and fridge both require 12V power to run their "brains" even if they are using 120V electricity or propane for their heat source. The trouble won't surface on shore power as your converter provides the needed 12V.

I didn't see any mention of the age/condition of your battery. If it came with the T@B and you are not familiar with how to assess its state of health, you may simply be dealing with a battery that is beyond its useful life. Fortunately--if that is the case--it's any easy and relatively cheap fix!

Tampakayaker

On some vehicles if you drive with your headlights on, it'll increase the amperage output of the alternator enough to keep the fridge going on battery power while driving.

But if you stop  for any length of time (dinner, sight seeing) make sure that the 12 volt line to the camper  from the tow vehicle cuts off or you will kill the tow vehicle battery.  Some vehicles have a relay that cuts the feed off automatically when the TV isn't running.

You can always disconnect the 7 way when you stop, just make sure you remember to reconnect it before driving off.

On our 2016, the switch next to the fridge with the green light is for an extra cooling fan that helps the fridge cool better by pulling heat out of the enclosed area where the fridge sits.  I think it was a mod done by the factory/dealers?  I've only camped with shore power, so we always have that switch turned on.

MadCityJack

After reading all the concerns about cooling the refrigerator while driving via 12v, I’m going to do the following:  1) pre-cool the refrigerator on AC before leaving,  2) Use Cooler shock ice packs and turn off refrigerator.   Then at campsite 3) I will use the propane to power the refrigerator.

I understand for those on long trips, this might not be a solution.

On Amazon:    Cooler Shock 18-Degree F. Hard Packs - No Ice Required –Tough Innovative Pack Designed with a Ribbed Surface Area to Get Cold Fast. C.S. Has Over 4,000 Reviews Average 4.6 Stars (Gray 3 Pack)

ChanW

Better yet,  if you're running the 3-way fridge on 12V while driving, and you make a stop for a length of time (breakfast, lunch, dinner, hike, etc) be sure to shut the fridge off. The fridge pulls 11A, which can draw your Tab battery down relatively quickly.

You're less likely to arrive at camp with a depleted battery, and it's really not good to strain your battery with deep discharges, anyway.

Mellow_Yellow

Hello @sjanin and welcome! I have been through similar trials with my "new to me" 2014 T@B 320 S, which I purchased in Nov 2020. Once you get to know them, they are marvelous! I have felt over my head numerous times. I started out with short trips and learned one system at a time. This coming week, I'll be taking my longest trip yet and will be using the black tank for the first time! I have been learning that the T@B is tougher and smarter than I realize and has tolerated my many mistakes amazingly well. 
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12574/dead-battery-2014-t-b-320-s#latest
Assuming the battery that came with your 2015 is not new, depending on how the previous owner treated it, it might not be fully functioning or reliable. If it is the original 2015 battery, it is due for replacing. You might choose to:
1. get the battery tested to see if it is holding its charge correctly
2. replace it with another comparable battery
3. upgrade to a different type of battery, such as AGM or lithium. These are lower maintenance, dry cell batteries.
4. get a wireless battery monitor
I upgraded to lithium because I almost only boondock and love to camp in the off-season. I have a fairly low cost solar panel suitcase, but to be honest, the lithium holds the charge so well, I haven't had to use it yet. I think the cost of the lithium is well worth the peace of mind and low maintenance.
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12623/lithium-battery#latest
One other bit of advice - purchase all the fuses you might need, especially the tiny ones for the Alde! I've already blown mine once when I connected to house power without first turning the Alde off.
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/3512/fuses-for-newbies/p1