100% waterless coolant for my Alde no water no corrosion non toxic life time never needs changing

ChanW

Thanks @Dalehelman, for keeping this on track... I'm very interested in what you learn.

Yeah @Tabaz , what he said! funny ha-ha!

ScottG said:

Ahhh, @Tabaz, but you're the funny one--and we know what that means...  ;-)

lkc001

@Dalehelman another question please.  So, if I can manage with a mirror to look inside the tank. . .  
1--should I put the shop vac hose end/extension just into the tank to suck out all the fluid visible in the tank THEN put it on top of the correct hole in the bottom of the tank until it stops sucking out fluid?  
2--THEN fill the tank back up like 3/4 full, turn the pump speed up to 5, then turn the Alde on to pump continuously so the system pulls the new fluid in, then continue adding fluid until I have put in @ 2.5 gallons and monitor it until the level in the tank is between the max & min line on the tank?

Dalehelman

@Verna
Your the best. I miss my many T@B friends, but this forum helps.

Dalehelman

@lkc001
It really makes no difference. Once the tank is empty. Place the hose nozzle on to the return line which is directly below the tank mouth opening. The tighter the vacuum seal the better, but it doesn’t have to be a perfect seal. I placed a piece of clear tubing in line so I could watch the flow. If you are going to use the same brand of fluid just refill and run the pump. I see no need to adjust the pump, but you can if you like. If you are going to use a different product I would flush with distilled water a couple of times first.

lkc001

@Dalehelman. Thanks again!  I don’t know what we would do without you & the others who comes up with ingenious DIY solutions!  

Dalehelman

@lkc001
Thank you for the kind words.
This great forum is about informing not arguing. 

Dalehelman

@lkc001
Is your Tab a 400?

lkc001

@Dalehelman  no I have a 2017 Tab 320S & the tank is in a teeny tiny corner that is boxed in— not enough room to look directly down into the tank

Dalehelman

@lkc001
Yours should be just like our 2015 Sofitel. Ours held about 6 qts. Another members CS with the tank in the bath cubby behind the toilet held about 7 qts. Let us know if yours holds more.

MarkAl

@Dalehelman having a new 2021 320 I've got another year to replace the (new type) fluid. But plan to do it myself. I was initially intrigued by the Evans fluid but now your technique of sucking the old fluid from the lines seems by far the easiest to do. I appreciate the pics but one question for me remains, how did you seal the tube in the expansion tank to pull out the fluid? Just by pushing the tub securely on the bottom? The other systems I've seen involve cutting tubing / adding drains or opening a line and adding fittings and a pump...

Dalehelman

@MarkAl
There is no need to have a perfect airtight seal. The vacuum is strong enough and the Alde system hoses being about 1” allows for good unrestricted flow. The trick is high volume low pressure. Low pressure illuminates any damage that could be caused by high-pressure compressed air. The tighter the seal the faster the process. In order to get as much of the old fluid and water out as possible. I run the vacuum for at least an hour. You will note from the picture I inserted a section of clear tubing so I can see what is happening.

DougH

I used to have a dream.

Take out the convectors and the Alde main unit, along with all the glycol lines.  Think of all the reclaimed storage!  Now put in a Cubic Mini (https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/) where the TV is.  Run a gravity feed line from a 3 quart pot on the stove into the hot water line for the occasional warm shower.  Simplicity.  Extra storage.  The beauty of a wood burning stove.

lkc001

@Dalehelman I will post back here with how much I was able to get out, although I thought it held @ 2.5 gallons?  I cannot look down into the tank because of the restricted area, but I was able to take a pic with my cell phone and it clearly shows 2 holes/tubes in the bottom of the tank and you said that the one I need to put the tube on is the one directly below the fill port, so I'm going to try just putting the tube in straight down and hope I start getting suction.  Did you have to hold the tube onto the port for the entire hour, and it was sucking up glycol the entire hour?   It will be several weeks before I attempt it.  Camping coming up shortly!  Wish me luck.  Again I appreciate all of you that help others so much here!  I would be lost!

Dalehelman

@lkc001
This is where the vacuum hose goes. Anything you can do that will make the vacuum nozzle fit tighter at the bottom is good. I used some duct tape to help hold things in places so I would not have to hold

lkc001

@Dalehelman Unfortunately I can't see the underside of the tank either--it is completely enclosed in that tiny space.  The only thing I know to do is to try to put the hose/attachment from my shop vac straight down into the tank and find out if it covers the port directly below the fill cap.  I did manage to get a pic of the bottom of the tank from the fill port.  See pic--the hole directly below the fill port looks like it sits in a well or inside a circle, but maybe it just looks like it is because of the liquid. . . 

Dalehelman

@lkc001
Your correct. The spot you’re looking for is directly below the tank mouth. It is recessed in the bottom of the tank about 3/4” deep. So once the vacuum nozzle drops into it you are good to go.

Dalehelman

The question was ask. Do I need a tight seal at the end of the vacuum wand. The answer is no, but to create the most suction the tighter the seal the better. It also will speed up the evacuation process. Here is a picture that shows how I improved that seal. I used 1” foam pipe insulation. Slipped over the end of the wand leaving about 5/8” of the wand exposed. Secured with a small zip tie pulled tight. Just to keep it from moving. Inserting it through the mouth of the return tank requires a little finessing, but the foam compresses and it will fit. Another piece of form at the neck of the tank will help keep things in place.

rh5555

New to this thread, but I think the initial premise that

This coolant is propylene glycol non toxic and contains no water. Therefore it needs no anti-corrosion additives which break down over time.

is incorrect.

Propylene glycol is corrosive to aluminum all by itself, it doesn't need water.  See:

https://www.corrosionpedia.com/definition/2777/propylene-glycol.

I also worry that I cannot find an up to date MSDS for this product, so who knows what it really contains...  The only MSDSs that I can find for their other products all contain corrosion inhibitors.

Dalehelman

@rh5555
Thank you for jumping into this discussion. I am very interested in your comments. Have you looked into Evans NPG specifically? Are you concerned that it is not what it claims? I would appreciate any input you may have. That’s exactly why I started this thread. 

rh5555

I looked for information on the Evans NPG and just found confusing and confounding information.  It seems at one point that it was ethylene glycol / propylene glycol mix with added unspecified corrosion inhibitors.  Now it says it is just propylene glycol (which is nice because it isn't as toxic) but Evan's is elusive regarding a publishing an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet).  Dale, you should request the MSDS (they are obliged to provide it under federal law) and see for yourself what is in it before believing their (confusing and confounding) sales literature.

Denny16

I had the same experience when I looked up the NPG at the start of this discussion, a d came to a similar conclusion, which a big ? about its suitability in the Alde system.
cheers

Dalehelman

Based on my previous experience with Evans products, and after talking to their R/D people. I am going forward with the conversation to Evans NPG. I am confident their product presents no danger to the Alde system, and has the ability to prevent corrosion and electrolysis issues. As well as labor and maintenance costs. If the whole things blows up I will swallow my pride and let you all know. Please don’t bother to wish me luck. It’s not a matter of luck it’s a research and past performance choice. Thanks to all for your valued input.

Tabulating

Thanks, no matter the outcome, the rest of us will benefit.  It is generous and bold of you to get out front.

Again, Thanks.

Dalehelman

I filled Alde  with the Evans NPG yesterday. Took 7 qts. Run the circulation pump while adding coolant. No issues with air bubbles. I did make sure the auto bleed valve was horizontal. Fired it up brought it up to operating temperature. Worked fine for several hours.I plugged the tank air vent and attached a balloon to the overflow tub. To prevent water in the air from entering the system it must be a closed system. The balloon allows for heat expansion of the fluid. The balloon did inflate a little. Once the system was turned off the balloon defeated as expected. The balloon worked just as planned, but maybe a little fragile. My plan is to replace it with an RV expansion/accumulation tank. Which will be more durable and permanent. To this point I am pleased with the outcome.

Dalehelman

In order to allow the waterless coolant to perform properly. It must work in a sealed system. Glycol will absorb water from the air if the system is not air tight. As the glycol transfer fluid heats up it expands. In a sealed system that creates pressure. In order to handle the fluctuating pressure I installed an accumulation tank. It basically acts as a balloon inflating as pressure increases and deflating as pressure is reduced. This allows the system to remain air tight and function freely. By capping one end and removing Schrader valve core. The bladder inside is allow to expand and contract as needed. The only modification to the Alde is plugging the fill tank vent and attaching the overflow tube to the new expansion tank. As discussed earlier I found a shop vac was an easy and effective way to remove the old coolant with no modification to the Alde.

photo shows expansion tank install

Tabaz

Dale - how cool you've done this.  After some time has passed, how will you know if this fluid is superior to the traditional stuff? I'm not sure I understand the different discussions about PH levels v. corrosion.

Dalehelman

I guess I will watch for the bulging of the hoses. Our 2015 Jeep GC has over 80,000 miles and the hoses look and feel like new. No soft spots or bulging at the hose clamps. I have faith that Evans products will do what they claim. Their products have been in use for around 20 years with success. I assume or they would not still be in business. 

Homebodyatheart

@Dalehelman… here’s post 100! 

BrianZ

Very interesting idea with the accumulator, @Dalehelman.
A couple of questions - trying to understand how this works.. 
What is the accumulator & hose going to it filled with - air, glycol, both?  Is the valve on top of the accumulator just closed off/sealed, or left open to the air so the diaphragm could move freely inside without building pressure inside the valve, while the accumulator diaphragm seals the Alde tank from outside air?

If sealed, then I'd wonder what the max pressure buildup might be & whether it might have been useful to mount a pressure gauge on it to find out.  If open, then the diaphragm will never have any pressure build up to push any liquid back into the tank (which may be ok?).  Is the diaphragm itself springy, such that it can push back fluid when cooled if the valve is open to air; or, would it just continue to fill with fluid on the Alde side of the diaphragm if there is an overflow from the tank until it can't hold any more? 

Just trying to understand the setup & how the parts work, but I would guess the accumulator is open & doesn't build pressure, but just works as a passive device to keep air out & not hold pressure, like having a second overflow tank that just keeps outside air/water vapor out.

Anyway, interesting use of this device.  Do you know what it's made of and whether it & the diaphragm will hold up to the glycol & additives without degrading?  I guess heat shouldn't really be an issue, since the accumulator is not holding hot glycol, right?
If there ever was a substantial overflow of glycol from the expansion tank, I would guess you could push it back by briefly opening the glycol tank air vent while applying some air pressure to the open accumulator valve to re-expand the diaphragm.

I would expect the above would never really happen under normal use, and what you've got should work to let the glycol tank air space breathe in & out between glycol tank & accumulator as glycol level rises & drops with temperature, without any adverse effects.  Very clever [mis]use of the accumulator device, Dale!
👍

Dalehelman

 
@BrianZ
 The accumulator is open & doesn't build pressure, but just works as a passive device to keep air out & not hold pressure, like having a second overflow tank that just keeps outside air/water vapor out. There is no fluid in the overflow tube just air. No need to over complicate this. It’s just that simple. It inflated a toy balloon to about 3” at operating temp and deflated when cool. No liquid moves from the Alde tank to the accumulation tank. Hope this answers your questions.