100% waterless coolant for my Alde no water no corrosion non toxic life time never needs changing

Dalehelman

I have located  a 100% waterless coolant which I am planning to use in our Alde. This coolant is propylene glycol non toxic and contains no water. Therefore it needs no anti-corrosion additives which break down over time. This makes it  last indefinitely with no need of replacing. It’s not cheap and costs $64 gal plus prep fluid which eliminates the water in the system after draining the old coolant. It is available on Amazon or direct from the manufacturer.


https://www.evanscoolant.com/#max-widget


Dale Helman

MarkAl

I'm looking forward to learning from this thread.

ChrisFix

MarkAl said:

I'm looking forward to learning from this thread.

Me too!

Tabaz

This could be the Rosetta Stone for the corrosion issue.  Looking forward to more posts from our technically astute forum members.

Dalehelman

Me to. Where are they? I need a good reason not to use this stuff.

Dalehelman

Amazon price
 https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0096QO4TM/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_imm_awdb_T53W6N86M2YXZFSAVN33?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Tabaz

Dale - I'm with you.  We have so many educated/experienced members on this forum, but we hear only crickets chipping on your post.  BTW, I'm sitting here looking at a completely cleaned Alde system just begging me to fill it with . . . something.

Dalehelman

We are at lake Roosevelt till tomorrow. Then heading for Las Vegas. I haven’t even looked at our Alde system in months maybe over a year. It’s working fine. When we get home next week I plan to give it the once over. I hope to find little or no corrosion issues. Although the has never been changed in 6 years. I have checked the ph level a couple of times. The last check was 6 or 8 months ago. The ph was still at the acceptable level. I did order a couple of gallons of the Hansen NPG today. I’ve had their ethylene glycol in our 2015 Grand Cherokee since it was new. All of the hoses feel good and firm with no detectable soft spots. Now hopefully our Alde will not have corroded away.

Tabaz

Roosevelt Lake in Arizona?  Can we meet for breakfast before you head to LV?

Dalehelman

You know the Butcher hook restaurant in Tonto basin?

Denny16

If this was a better option, Truma Alde would have picked this over Rhomar fluid.   The label may be misleading in that it is already mixed with water.  The NPG is not going to have the correct aluminum corrosion inhibitors in it either, as it is advertised as an automotive product.  Also using this could void your Alde/nüCamp warranty on a new TaB. 
cheers

Dalehelman

No water means no water 100% water free. Alde didn’t get it right the first time. What makes us think they will the second. Besides my unit is way out warranty anyway. The only reason  anti-corrosion chemicals are needed is because they are half water one of the most corrosive agents on the planet.

Denny16

Evans NPG is designed for closed dolling systems in an engine.  At high temps and open to the atmosphere propylene glycol does oxide giving rise to products in it such as lactic acid, acetic acid, and pyruvic acid.  The high temp level is not indicated in the reference I looked up.  Also, Evans data sheet indicates if exposed to the air, NPG will absorb water.  

The Alde in not an airtight closed system as an automotive or marine engine cooling system is.  The return glycol is pushed into a reservoir bottle with the top of the warm glycol exposed to the atmosphere/air.  So this product is not going to eliminate any corrosion issues, but may make them worse over the course of a one or two year period.  

Use this Evans product at your own risk.  Personally, I will stick with the Truma/Alde recommendation.  Also, there is no proof the Century TF-1 is the cause of the corrosion.  It is a thermal, galvanic corrosion issue caused in part by the distilled water added and the Alde environment.  That is why the anti-corrosion inhibitors are added to reduce or eliminate the risk.  Century TF-1 has corrosion inhibitors in it also, and they have a limited two year life span.  

Cheers

Tabulating

Does anyone know an Alde rep?

There must be an engineer or scientist who picks the recommended fluids for Alde.

A sales rep will just say "Our Alde brand is the best fluid."

But if I spoke Swedish and I was a materials engineer, the use of this fluid would be a great discussion to be had with the right gal or guy at Alde.

Dalehelman

The 2 fluids recommended by Alde also absorb water. The difference is they start out already half water and water is the problem.

Denny16

But the Alde recommended products have an anti corrosion additives in them to combat the corrosion, where the NPG does not list any.  The design of the Alde system bu its very nature creates a corrosion issue, the recommended glycol products are designed to combat this issue, and are designed hydronic heating systems like the Alde.  The NPG product is designed for internal combustion engines, and is an entirely different application.  Each have their own unique issues which the coolant must deal with. 

Cheers

Tabulating

Yep, the question is how much water is needed to cause the problems.

Will this fluid ever absorb enough water to cause corrosion?

I do know that glycols are pretty useful dessicants so they will absorb water.

Will they absorb enough to cause issues. Who knows?

I put in new century fluid last year and the first thing the bottle said to do was cut it with distilled water.  It is hard to think about in light of the issues that are occuring. Would it have been better to just pour it in straight?

Dalehelman

You don’t need anti-corrosion agents if there is no water. I contend all of these coolants are transfer fluids and that is all they do. Hopefully without destroying the equipment.

Homebodyatheart

@Dalehelman keep us posted on your latest project. And 🥳 Congratulations on being on the road again! I was very near your neighborhood this afternoon to drop Bug off, and will be back probably later next week, hopefully! Give my best to Sandi! 

ChrisFix

Tabulating said:

Yep, the question is how much water is needed to cause the problems.

Will this fluid ever absorb enough water to cause corrosion?

I do know that glycols are pretty useful dessicants so they will absorb water.

Will they absorb enough to cause issues. Who knows?

I put in new century fluid last year and the first thing the bottle said to do was cut it with distilled water.  It is hard to think about in light of the issues that are occuring. Would it have been better to just pour it in straight?

Does anyone know why the Century (and Rhomar) are diluted with water?...it does intuitively seem like you'd be better off with straight glycol...and add some corrosion inhibitors for good measure for any atmospheric absorbed water.

Denny16

The issue with the Evans product is how much heat does it take to create the lactic acid, acetic acid, and pyruvic acid when it is heated.  The acids will cause more issues than the water.  This is an apples for oranges discussion, as a product designed for one application is being proposed for an application it was not designed for.  That is the main issue.  One should contact Evans about using their product in a hydronic heating system before using it.
cheers

Dalehelman

The Alde temperatures will never come near the temperatures of an internal combustion engine. Denny16 can those acids be created without the presence of water?

Tabaz

Dale - so glad your original post has sprung legs and is creating a robust discussion.  As an aside, breakfast tomorrow morning is out because I confused Lake Pleasant with Roosevelt Lake.  You are WAY far away from my location in Phoenix.  Can't wait to see where this topic leads!

Mellow_Yellow

@Dalehelman - A few thoughts:
1 - It is important not to mix different heat-transfer fluids in the Alde because they can gum up when they interact. And it is almost impossible to drain fully drain and flush the Alde without specialized equipment. Referencing this long, informative thread here . 
2 - It sounds like your T@B has its 'original' Century TF-1 fluid. How have you been measuring the pH? from the reservoir? The reason I ask: when I drained the original 7-year old fluid out of the Alde of my 'new to me' 2014 T@B, the fluid in the reservoir was a healthy yellow-green but the fluid that I drained out of the system had changed to an unhealthy pink colour, a sign that it had definitely degraded. I did not measure the pH, but I think the corrosion inhibiting properties of the fluid can degrade independently of the pH. 
I hope to get my Alde fully serviced at some point 'post Covid'. I live on an island and the only service I know of is on the mainland (Vancouver). For now, I've done 2 partial changes 1 month apart and will do a partial change on a yearly basis using the Century TF-1 fluid. The Alde is amazing and I've been so thankful for it to get me through some cold nights this past winter!

Denny16

Dalehelman said:

The Alde temperatures will never come near the temperatures of an internal combustion engine. Denny16 can those acids be created without the presence of water?

True, but the glycol in an engine is being constantly cooled by the radiator or heat exchanger, so the glycol is not remaining hot for any length of time.  Where in the Alde, the glycol is being heated continuously while the unit is on and heating the cabin.  The question is at what point are the acids created amps what constant temp is needed?

It is the propylene glycol itself when exposed to the air and heated will create the acids without water mixed in, as the glycol will absorb water from the air, enough to create the acid deposits.
cheers

Denny16

Mellow_Yellow, yes, the corrosion inhibiting properties of the fluid can degrade independently of the pH.  Measuring the pH will not tell you the effectiveness or lack thereof of,the corrosion inhibitors in the glycol solution.

Doing a partial change of the glycol is better than none, but it should be completely changed every two years.  You should be able to get to Vancouver by the end of the year to get this done.
cheers  

Dalehelman

@Denny16
Are not the radiators in the Tab constantly cooling the coolant the same as in a car radiator? I guess I see no difference.

Dalehelman

Please help me keep this a clean dialogue with no cheap shots. I really enjoy everyone’s honest input. Question or statement then rebuttal. We are all friends here.

Dalehelman

@Mellow_Yellow
I used ph test strips
There will no mixing of coolant 
There is a fairly extensive procedure for removing the original coolant. Hansen’s website provides detailed instructions, and the use of a special prep fluid.

trimtab

I am so confused about all of this that I might just drain the system and give up on using it until everything is worked out.  just me...

qhumberd

Dalehelman said:

Please help me keep this a clean dialogue with no cheap shots. I really enjoy everyone’s honest input. Question or statement then rebuttal. We are all friends here.

I completely agree and as I just did a fluid flush and fill on my 400 and decided to just replace the Century fluid, I am wondering what led you to choose this Evans fluid?  Is there corrosion is your current system? I was not able to check my connections as they are buried, so the corrosion issue is still a concern for me, but I wonder how you can be sure that removing water will stop corrosion in the Alde?

I have located  a 100% waterless coolant which I am planning to use in our Alde. This coolant is propylene glycol non toxic and contains no water. Therefore it needs no anti-corrosion additives which break down over time.