How much antifreeze???

PNWtabber

I did the blow-out method and added antifreeze to the black tank via the toilet and poured some into both the shower and sink drains.  I think I used about half a gallon--Seattle doesn't usually get too many hard freezes so I wasn't terribly concerted.  Well, we've got a big cold snap coming and I'm wondering, how much antifreeze should I have poured into the drains?????  Is half a gallon enough or should I add more?

thanks

Sharon_is_SAM

That should be plenty to cover the P traps of the sink and shower, but it won’t hurt to add more to get enough down to the gray and black tank sewer valves.  After adding AF, leave the sewer outlet cover in place, then briefly open then close the black tank valve followed by the gray tank valve.  That will get AF on both sides of the valves.

[Deleted User]

Do you have a 320 of 400? There is a component on the 400 toilet that holds water and is known to be a likely freeze damage part. If you can just put some antifreeze in the FW tank and flush the toilet until pink it would be good idea.  It's so easy though to just go ahead and run the AF through the water system.  

VictoriaP

Agree w/ @TabbyShack. @PNWtabber has a 2018 320 per the signature on the post, and that model has the same toilet as the 400. Given the extreme (for the area) cold temps predicted around Puget Sound next week, personally I’d find a way to get antifreeze into the water line leading to the toilet. I think BrianZ had a technique he posted on how to get antifreeze just into that one line. Or get heat into that general area somehow, at least enough so water stuck in that spot doesn’t freeze.

Honestly, that part is 100% of the reason I installed the winterizing valve onto my water pump so I can easily pump antifreeze in the lines. Yes, Puget Sound rarely gets *that* cold, but I do not want to discover a leak next spring and have to remove the toilet to replace that one part.

PNWtabber

Oh dear. Thanks.  I'll have to see what I can figure out -- with tomorrow being Christmas, this could be interesting.

VictoriaP

Discussion of problematic part on toilet: https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/5145/water-valve-replacement-for-toilet

Edit: And another… https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/172141#Comment_172141

PNWtabber

Thanks @VictoriaP.  I will have to find time tomorrow to look in the trailer and see what the situation is.  Fortunately it is parked at my house.

Edited to add:  I wonder if that valve is inside the trailer, could I leave the shower door open and run the alde at a low (but above freezing) temperature for the duration of this cold snap?  Alternatively, I have a space heater, hmmm.

VictoriaP

PNWtabber said:

Thanks @VictoriaP.  I will have to find time tomorrow to look in the trailer and see what the situation is.  Fortunately it is parked at my house.

Given the holiday and the incoming snow that will snarl everything around here, I’ll throw an “in a pinch” option in: hook the compressor back up and pressurize the lines, then release the pressure only at the toilet valve. Do this over and over for a bit, basically a really focused and thorough blowout for that one valve area. I’m seeing at least a few posts from people who’ve done that sort of thing and gotten away with it in a cold snap.

No guarantees, but it’s worth trying if you don’t have other options. This cold snap is looking to be pretty crazy!

VictoriaP

PNWtabber said:

Edited to add:  I wonder if that valve is inside the trailer, could I leave the shower door open and run the alde at a low (but above freezing) temperature for the duration of this cold snap?  Alternatively, I have a space heater, hmmm.

@PNWtabber, the valve is on the back of the toilet, not behind the wall, so yes, if you can get enough heat in that area to keep the shower above freezing, that’s sufficient. 

[Deleted User]

Just curious PNWTabber, why not just put a gallon in the FW tank and run it through all your fixtures. It really only takes about 15 minutes to fully winterize a T@b.  Do you not have any more antifreeze perhaps? It's really as simple as putting a gallon of AF in the FW tank of a 320 and turning on each faucet one at a time using the water pump. Don't forget the outside shower if you have one.  Flush the toilet good. Then quickly open and close the gray and black flush valves as mentioned above.  Also you need to bypass the Alde. I don't know if you have the bypass lever or maybe you have to bypass it with the silver valve under the bed. Come back to this thread to post any other questions and we can help. I've talked people though winterizing over the phone before.  

P.s. yes turning on the heat works too! Just open bathroom door and cabinets.

Horigan

@PNWtabber, If you blew out the toilet valve with good airflow, repeatedly until there was no water flow (as @VictoriaP describes), I think you should be fine.  I use this approach for every valve and haven't had any issues with just the blow out method during similar PNW cold snaps.  Having a large volume compressor, or using the garden hose trick to increase the volume, helps.

PNWtabber

Thanks @TabbyShack.  Will the pump work with only a gallon???  I don't know that my trailer is perfectly level, presuming that would be an issue with such a small volume?  I actually have extra antifreeze.  Guess I need to review the Alde by-pass thing.  I think fear of messing that up is why I just did the blow out method.

PNWtabber

The manual for my space heater says "Do not use this heater in an RV, boat or during any application where battery power is converted to AC power."

My trailer is plugged in to shore power, so this conversion warning should not be a concern, right?

Denny16

That warning applies to applications where the 120VAC heating elements are being used, which would either over load the inverter (device running Alde from battery) or would drain the battery quickly.  Connected to shore power, should not be an issue, and I do this during the winter, with the Alde set at 50F to keep the cold and damp out of the trailer.
cheers

ScottG

@PNWtabber, a gallon in the FW tank might not be enough to allow the pump to prime, or to refill the lines enough to actually get antifreeze into the toilet valve. It should be, in theory, but I've found the functional capacity of the FW tank/pump system to be less than the stated 11 gallons.

I agree with @Horigan. Since you used the blowout only method to begin with, why not just hook your compressor back up and blow out the forgotten toilet valve?

And, in the very worst case, those toilet valves can be replaced pretty easily and cheaply. Not worth panicking over!  :-)

PNWtabber

@ScottG thanks, so the toilet valve needs a separate blowout?  I read and re-read the instructions several times before doing it.  Sigh. 

I ended up blocking open the shower door and putting a space heater in the trailer (on the lowest possible setting) and aiming it toward the wet bath compartment.  The blue-tooth thermometer reports it has been a toasty 60-70 degrees in the wet bath with this set up.  It is 26F outside this morning and supposed to get colder over the next few days.  Unusual for us to get extended below freezing temps, day and night.

ScottG

Yes, the toilet should be considered another fixture, just like the sink and shower faucets. Anything with a water supply running to it should be thoroughly blown out or filled with antifreeze depending upon which method you choose to go with.

The difference with the toilet is that you have to manually hold the valve open (like you do when you flush) to eject the water from the line. I think this makes it a little easier to overlook.  

Horigan

@PNWtabber, If you wanted to forego the space heater during this long cold spell, you can disconnect the water line from the back of the toilet.  That will drain the water from the valve and prevent freezing damage.  It's a tight fit back there.  The hose screws vertically into the bottom of the valve.  Just let the valve drain, drain the hose, and put it back together so you don't forget to in the spring.

PNWtabber

@Horigan -- that's a great idea, I should take a look.  The lowest temperature setting on the space heater is 60F, and the temp in the trailer has been running as high as 68F according to my blue-tooth thermometer!  It does feel a bit wasteful.  I thought of running the Alde instead, but it doesn't do a great job of getting heat into the wet bath even with the door open.

Weather forecast looks like we'll start getting above freezing on Saturday.