Connecting off-brand solar directly to battery w/alligator clips?

mickietucs

My Zamp suitcase just got stolen from my truck (parked at home - thought I locked the truck but...???) - my fault, I know! Anyway, until I replace it, can I hook a small panel directly to the battery w/alligator clips (and not worry about the whole reverse polarity issue)? Thanks.

VictoriaP

Yes, as long as the panel has a controller. 

mickietucs

Thanks @VictoriaP

VictoriaP

@mickietucs No problem! You can also get an adapter off Amazon that will reverse the polarity for you at your Zamp input on the tub. There’s a lot to be said for not having to wrestle with alligator clips and the battery box lid, I did it a couple of times and pretty quickly decided to add a pigtail to my battery (2019 model year doesn’t have the input port and I haven’t gotten around to installing my own).

mickietucs

@VictoriaP - may I get a link to that adapter? Is that all I'd need to make a different panel "plug & play" into the Zamp input on my tub? Every time I start reading about using a different panel and the reverse polarity issue, my head explodes. I just want something simple and if it's just an adapter, I would love that! Thanks.

GatorEgg

Yes, as said no problem as long as it includes a controller.  I have a Renogy 100 set with clips.  It gives me the versatility and or backup capabilities to use it on for my tow vehicle if need be.  Zamps are fine but I’m a fan of the Renogy company.

pthomas745

Ignore the "reverse polarity" issue.  Most of the discussions about the SAE port (which is all the "Zamp" labelled port is) are simply....wrong.  The SAE port is wired exactly how an SAE port is supposed to be wired.

Once I learned how to wire my controller to the port, I tossed all the "adapters."   Five seconds with a multimeter will show you what you want to know.  But, they do make it easier.

Here is one such example on Amazon.  https://www.amazon.com/Sunway-Solar-Connectors-Disconnect-Maintainer-3Pack/dp/B07GPGPTFV/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=sae+adapter&qid=1642779676&sr=8-5

PS:  most new solar controllers (and lots of old ones probably) are made with "reverse polarity protection".  Even if you do manage to wire up your controller to the port the "wrong" way, the controller will...just not work. 

mickietucs

@pthomas745 - so if I get those connectors from Amazon, is there a video or some other instructions on how they get connected to whatever solar panel I get (say Renogy)?  

VictoriaP

@mickietucs Renogy uses MC4 connectors (as do many other brands), so you’d likely need two adapters, an MC4 to SAE, and then the one that @pthomas745 linked. They simply click into place, you literally cannot do it wrong, and you can store them connected together all the time if you want. If you can’t figure it out, message me and I will walk you through it. Honestly it’s incredibly easy, and I don’t say that often!

This is one example, and includes both adapters you would need: https://smile.amazon.com/Adapter-Connector-Compatible-Polarity-Reverse/dp/B09337Q898/

Edit to add: Double check to be sure the Renogy or other panel you buy has a controller, though. Panels are often sold without them for those of us who have our own.

mickietucs

@VictoriaP - yay! That's exactly what I'd want to get. Very helpful! Although I have loved the Zamp (and feel they have excellent customer service), replacing the one that got stolen is just so pricey. I think I'll end up with a Renogy (and yes, I know to get it with the controller). If I run into any questions once I get it and the items on Amazon, I'll get a hold of you. Thanks to all who chimed in! 

AnOldUR

Actually the differences between Zamp and Renogy make it very easy to get this wrong. I have found that the easiest way to be certain that you have it correct is to set it up so that the wire color is consistent. The link by @VictoriaP is a revers polarity adapter. If you connect it to a Renogy panel you'll be connecting the red wire on the panel to the black wire on the adapter. Another problem can come up with the extension cables. For obvious reasons the opposite ends of the extension have reversed male/female red/black connections. Using a different ends will again reverse the red/black connection.

My solution was to use a non color coded adapter and crazy glue it to the end of the extension so that it gave me matching colored wires with the Renogy MC4 connectors. I've followed through with this color system so that I know that only red wires will be connected to the hot side of my battery.

Rant:
This whole thing is a mess. SAE connections should never have used for solar. Between the confusion and danger of shock, it's an accident waiting to happen. Yet here we are.

VictoriaP

AnOldUR said:

Actually the differences between Zamp and Renogy make it very easy to get this wrong. I have found that the easiest way to be certain that you have it correct is to set it up so that the wire color is consistent. The link by @VictoriaP is a revers polarity adapter. If you connect it to a Renogy panel you'll be connecting the red wire on the panel to the black wire on the adapter. Another problem can come up with the extension cables. For obvious reasons the opposite ends of the extension have reversed male/female red/black connections. Using a different ends will again reverse the red/black connection.

My solution was to use a non color coded adapter and crazy glue it to the end of the extension so that it gave me matching colored wires with the Renogy MC4 connectors. I've followed through with this color system so that I know that only red wires will be connected to the hot side of my battery.

Rant:
This whole thing is a mess. SAE connections should never have used for solar. Between the confusion and danger of shock, it's an accident waiting to happen. Yet here we are.

@AnOldUR Do you have a link to the adapter you used? It may be helpful and less confusing for @mickietucs.

AnOldUR

VictoriaP said:

@AnOldUR Do you have a link to the adapter you used?

Here's what I crazy glued to the end of my extension cable. Polarity Reverse Adapter Connectors like the ones linked to by @pthomas745 above can be used to correct the discrepancies, but they can also add to the confusion with more bits laying around.

https://www.amazon.com/Solar-Connectors-Adapter-Battery-Polarity/dp/B07MW1M1VB/ref=psdc_13638744011_t3_B09337Q898

edit to add:
I'm not saying that this is the best solution, but just what I did to keep the polarity straight in my head.

Denny16

I played around with the idea of replacing the SAE port on the side of our TaB400 with a MC4 connector, but in the end, got the SAE to MC4 connector adapter.  

Cheers 

AnOldUR

@Denny16, I thought about doing that also, but two things stopped me. First, I had already set it up with the SAE and didn't want to toss all that work and money down the drain. Second, I read about using the SAE port on the side of my tongue box to power accessories. Not that I have an immediate use for that, but thought it was something that may be useful down the road.

Denny16

My thoughts also, I have a small battery compressor I want to run from the SAE port.
 Cheers 

VictoriaP

Thanks, @AnOldUR For me, SAE is an improvement over MC4 despite its shortcomings, because my hands and MC4 connections are not compatible (even using Renogy’s tool). The quick disconnect of the SAE pigtail is SO much easier for me to manage. And my NOCO charger had an SAE adapter available, which gives me  another easy to connect charging alternative. That made it a no brainer.

AnOldUR

I had the same issues with the MC4's as you @VictoriaP. My solution was to trim the barbs off of the male connectors. Now it's a simple slide in and out like the SAE. The o-rings on the MC4's assure that it won't just pull out, but if someone was to trip on the cable it has a better chance of disconnecting and not knocking over the panel.

after

before

Denny16

These connectors were designed for a plug and play solar panel installations, providing a weather proof semi permanent installation once connected.  When plugged in/together, they are intended to be left plugged in, except for service or panel repairs/replacement. They are not intended for a daily/weekly connections, as when you are plugging in a portable panel, then unplugging it at night or several days later.  That is what SAE ports were designed to do.
 Cheers 

pthomas745

I've always had "stand alone" solar controllers that I had to wire myself.  The easiest way to handle this comical MC4 to SAE to SAE adapter is....to disconnect the MC4 cable from the controller.  Run the properly wired SAE cable directly to the SAE port.  Done.  No adapters needed. (My adapters are all dusty in the bottom of my tool box.) The more cables involved, the more confusion can set in.  I just make sure to use a multimeter any time I decide to rewire a panel or a setup. 

PS:  My controllers are always close to the battery, so I know that a "suitcase" style controller with longer cables might have an advantage with the MC4 connectors. 

PSS: I hate MC4 connectors.  Rant complete.

Bayliss

Although only tangentially related to this discussion and @mickietucs's original question, I am posting this as "information only," if for nothing else to demonstrate the old adage, "things are not always as they seem."

I am planning on adding a Furrion Solar Port to the driver's side of my T@B 320 S for use with a 100W Renogy Solar Suitcase.  I got the idea from a previous post by @DenisP, who helped me get the right parts (thanks, @DenisP!)  One part is a "Cnlinko LP-20" plug (see first photo, below), which attaches securely to the Furrion 10A port.  The Furrion Port is clearly labeled on the back side with a "+" (red wire attached) and "-" (black wire attached.)  However, after receiving the "Cnlinko" plug, I noticed that the female MC4 connector is attached to a red wire, but labeled "-"; the male MC4 connector is attached to a black wire, but labeled "+".

My initial reaction was, "Uh oh, here we go again - - - "switched wiring" or "reversed polarity."  I reacted that way, because I intuitively expected a red wire to designate "positive," and a black wire to designate "negative," but the labeling on the MC4 connectors indicated the exact opposite.  Although I eventually figured out that the wires are correctly attached to the plug's pins (i.e., red to positive and black to negative), the labeling on the MC4 connectors threw me for a loop.  I thought I was going to have to detach and re-solder the plug's wire connections, leaving me with a workable plug, but a reversed wire color scheme that would not match the rest of my set-up.  Easy enough to do, but a minor and unexpected inconvenience.

Fortunately, it all worked out, plus it was a good learning experience.  Seeing all the wiring connections laid out as depicted in the second photo really helped in determining that the Cnlinko plug, as configured, will work as I had anticipated when I purchased it.  I just need to ignore the misleading labels on the MC4 connectors.  Also, it now makes sense to me why Renogy does not label their MC4 connectors as "+" or "-" (such as the connectors attached to their solar suitcase.)  Presumably, that is because every time you connect two MC4 connectors together down the line (e.g., if you have two or three such connections when adding extenion wires), each end of the wire is going to alternate between connection orientation (i.e., male at one end; female at the other end, switching back and forth as you go.)  Interesting stuff!
  

VictoriaP

OK, guys, I love all of this technical expertise, because I learn something from every discussion of this type and I still need to wire up my own port, BUT…
…we need the absolute easiest answer here for someone who has made it clear they are not at all comfortable with rewiring or with the “polarity issue” as it is commonly known. So can I ask that please we circle back to get @mickietucs question resolved? 

My understanding is that the Zamp branded port on the 2018 and earlier models is not directly compatible with the MC4 to SAE cables typically found on the market for use with non Zamp panels, and this is why the short adapter pictured in the link @pthomas745 provided is necessary. I don’t have a Zamp port, so I’m working off shared knowledge and not my own experience here.

Setting aside possible issues with the color of cables, is there a reason that either the cable + adapter setup in the link I provided or the one @AnOldUR posted will not work to resolve @mickietucs present issue? I want to make she she gets the right product for her needs, and that I’m not recommending the wrong item to people who ask this question.

Bayliss

@VictoriaP, I don't see why the suggested adapters will not work (depending on the specific application.)  However, it is not clear which portable solar panel @mickietucs wants to use.  She initially referenced a temporary fix (due to the theft of her Zamp suitcase) by using an (unknown) small panel connected with alligator clips.  If she already has that smaller panel (which was my initial impression), or a specific brand in mind, either of which includes a supplied alligator clip connection option (such as the Renogy Eclipse 100W Monocrystalline Solar Suitcase), the simple answer to her original question is "yes."  No need to have even raised the subject of adapters.

However, if she intends to switch to a solar suitcase that is not manufactured by Zamp, and wants something more convenient or permanent than alligator clips, then she will likely need an adapter.  Which adapter will depend on the solar suitcase she chooses.  So, I suppose that either (a) the question has been answered ("yes"), or (b) if she wants something other than a temporary fix and is going to purchase a different solar suitcase, we can only help with that option if she tells us what she wants to purchase.  Alternatively, there are several discussions on the forum regarding different solar options, but if she is seeking suggestions (she hasn't yet), forum members can certainly chime in with their recommendations.

Anyway, if I in any way contributed to going off in a different direction (which I suppose I did, but merely to make a point that was intended to support the "reversed polarity" trepidation expressed by @mickietucs) and made it even more confusing for her (or others), I apologize.  Regardless, there is no problem with your very admirable desire to loop back to her original question, which I appreciate and support.

P.S.  FWIW, this 2017 discussion thread by @Michigan_Mike provides a good description of the Zamp connections:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/6230/zamp-solar-connections-explained 

AnOldUR

Denny16 said:

These connectors were designed for a plug and play solar panel installations, providing a weather proof semi permanent installation once connected.  When plugged in/together, they are intended to be left plugged in, except for service or panel repairs/replacement. They are not intended for a daily/weekly connections, as when you are plugging in a portable panel, then unplugging it at night or several days later.  That is what SAE ports were designed to do.
 Cheers 

@Denny16, not arguing against MC4 being better suited for permanent installations, but SAE is not the answer. Unless I'm missing something there's a serious flaw with using SAE. With solar your have both the panel side and the battery side having potentially hot leads. Using and SAE connector means that there could be a hot exposed contact at one side or the other. Seem like the kind of thing that would be a code violation if there were standards for these things. But then I was a machinist in another life, not an electrician.

AnOldUR

VictoriaP said:

Setting aside possible issues with the color of cables, is there a reason that either the cable + adapter setup in the link I provided or the one @AnOldUR posted will not work to resolve @mickietucs present issue?

Probably fine, but having a meter handy to verify polarity would be a good idea.

Denny16

Yes, @AnOldUR you are correct, the hot/positive connection on the solar panel side is an exposed pin.  But the current out of a solar panel is low, compared to a 100 or 200 amp battery.  So the battery side is protected on the trailer/battery side.  Yes, the SAE is not perfect, there are better options available, but SAE and MC4 seem to be the most common ones used for portable solar panels, SAE on units with a controller, and MC4 on non-controller panels.  My panels have MC4 connectors, which are more robust than SAE connectors.

The nüCamp installed SAE port on out 2018 TaB400 is correctly wired for use with non Zamp solar panels.  I got the reverse polarity adapter shown here, but didn’t need it, as the MC4 to SAE adapter was correctly wired to connect to the SAE port on the TaB.  This reversed polarity myth on SAE ports had been previously discussed, and shown that the TaBs are correctly wired to SAE standards.  You can use a multi-meter to check your plug polarity to be sure it will work with the panel you want to use.

Zamp and many Renogy solar panels come with a solar controller connected to the portable panel.  If anyone wishes to use a portable panel without a build in controller, they will need a controller between the solar panel and the SAE/Zamp connector, which nüCamp has connected directly to the battery with the SAE positive connection attached to the positive terminal on the battery.

I think attaching a so,air controller like the Victron units, is where the confusion is created, as pre-wired SAE pigtails (for solar panels) are wired different/wire color code which is reversed from the TaB SAE port.  Since the SAE connector is reversible, the pins on the connector are different, depending on if it is connected to a battery, or connected to a solar panel.  One has to be reversed from the other to work correctly.  Thus the confusion over reversed polarity.

When connecting a portable solar panel you just need to insure the positive wire from the portable panel controller connects to the positive terminal of the battery, and you are good to go.
 Cheers 

pthomas745

The simple answer: multimeter.  Once the solar panel is attached to the controller, and you have attached the adapter (MC4 to SAE cable linked above)...five seconds with a multimeter will show you which side is positive  and which side is negative.  If the + side is on the "metal" part of the MC4 to SAE cable, you will need the adapter. (And, you need to take care not to touch any metal if that side is hot!)  If the + side of the adapter cable is "inside the plastic" part of the cable, you are done.  Plug it in and happy charging.

On the SAE port of the trailer, the "top" part of the port is the + cable to the battery.  The metal - part of the cable goes on the bottom. The whole point of an SAE cable is to prevent a user from shorting out a hot wire by "hiding" the hot lead inside the plastic part of the cable.

Sharon_is_SAM

@VictoriaP - provided @mickietucs has not changed the solar port wiring at the battery, your linked Amazon adapter set is the easiest set up to use a Renogy panel.  

mickietucs

Thanks to everyone. I'm getting a better understanding of the hookups and even own a multimeter so will use it to determine what's what when I get a new panel. @Bayliss - I was wondering if a panel I already had might work temporarily (need to still get it out of my shed and see if it has the controller on it) until I purchase a Renogy (Eclipse). I dug around last night and found a video that was somewhat helpful (to me) on someone doing the same thing we're talking about. @Bayliss - if I start scratching my head when I get the suitcase and the adapters that @VictoriaP listed, may I possibly contact you since you're in Tucson?  

Bayliss

@mickietucs, "yes."  I will send you a private message with my contact info.