TAB 400 and the toilet question...

Jay_and_Kat

We're one step closer to possibly getting a Tab 400 BD in the coming weeks (RV loan pre-approved through our CU) and something we're curious about.

The 400 apparently doesn't have a cassette toilet?  One of the things we like from what we've read (being first time RV owners soon) is that a cassette toilet means you don't have a blackwater tank to drain, just the cassette, which I would think would simplify winterizing the RV as well as not having to worry about having to pull the RV to a dump station if you fill the blackwater tank (just pull the cassette, walk to the nearest restroom or the dump station, dump, and return.)

Although, we did notice even the models with cassette toilets (320) have a blackwater tank, so the other question would be, what drains into that?

VictoriaP

The 2021 and newer 320 with a cassette has a grey water tank, no black tank. Grey water is anything that goes down the sink or shower. Older 320 models had a black tank that is larger than the cassette. The 400 thus far has never had a cassette option.

Cassettes have their advantages and disadvantages. They are rarely available in larger RVs in the US, because most folks heading out in something bigger than a 320, truck camper, or a small class B van don’t want to have to deal with sewage every couple of days. A black tank holds more and can be dumped a lot less often, but yes, typically requires moving the trailer unless you get a portable tank.

Sharon_is_SAM

I don't think a cassette toilet necessarily simplifies winterizing.  You still need to blow out the toilet flush valve in addition to adding antifreeze if you go that route.  It does allow you the portability of dumping without moving the TaB.

Jay_and_Kat

@VictoriaP interesting, the specs on the 2022 flyer for the 320s show a 5gal black tank and an 18gal grey.  So I guess the next question would be, how fast would you think 2 adults would fill up the 12gal black tank on the '22 400?  :-)

@Sharon_is_SAM, I guess my thought was, it'd be a bit easier in that you wouldn't need to ensure that one more tank was drained out and then winterized.

I will admit, we're probably going to take the "easy" way out on winterizing and have our local RV dealer (who doesn't deal in nuCamp, hopefully THAT won't be an issue) handle it, at least the first few times.

Oinfront

That 5 gallon black tank is the actual cassette. It holds 5 gallons. I moved from a pop up with a 5 gallon cassette toilet to a 400. 2 of us used the cassette toilet for strictly #1s and usually just in the middle of the night. We could go 5 days 4 nights without filling it up. We would usually use the bath house if there was one for day time and the #2s. We do the same with the tab 400 now and of course dont even come close to filling it. 

VictoriaP

@Jay_and_Kat The 5 gal black tank listed is the cassette. 12 gallon, two people, based on what I’ve experienced with a 320 with an 8 gallon tank, I’d guesstimate five days if you exclusively used the trailer bathroom and never any outside facilities. Most people don’t spend 24x7 at the trailer, though, so likely it’d last closer to 7. But if you drink a ton of water or use a lot of excess water to flush? Could be less. Hopefully we’ll get a few 400 owners to chime in on that. Generally speaking, most folks run out of space in the grey tank or run out of fresh water well before the black tank fills up.

Let go of worrying about winterizing. It’s a 15-30 minute job max. If this 50+ year old disabled woman can handle it, I’m sure you can too without wasting time and money having the dealer do it. Save those funds for the annual bearing & brakes check, or the biannual change out of the Alde glycol.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Jay_and_Kat - I would recommend learning how to winterize.  It really forces you to understand the nuances of your trailer and you learn how to protect the Alde.  The Nautilus system has really simplified it, especially if you are going to use antifreeze.  As it is, so often the owners know more about the TaBs than the dealers, so why risk it?

AnOldUR

I use one of the portable tanks to dump into a sewer clean out in my backyard when I don't use a campground or truck stop dump station. Once the black tank is transferred into the portable tank it becomes the same as the new cassette, so I sort of have experience dumping a cassette. I would never want to have to do that routinely. Once I worked out a system, I found that dumping a black tank is cleaner, easier and more risk free than dumping the cassette. That and the larger capacity of an onboard black tank would make it an easy decision for us. Even with the 8 gallon black tank on our 320S, we have not yet had to go to a dump station mid stay while camping.

Jay_and_Kat

@Sharon_is_SAM, um, because I'm inherently lazy?  :-)
But in all seriousness, I've watched a couple videos on de-winterizing and wouldn't think winterizing would be too bad, so quite likely we'll tackle it.

[Deleted User]

Definitely don't take the 400 in to get it winterized.  I can only imagine how they snicker under their breath when newbies come in asking for that.  You will find it very easy 20 minutes max. I've actually walked another forum member through the whole process while I was on the phone with him!  You have the forum here to help you with it, so NO WORRIES!  

I also think you will find the black tank better for two people.  I also thought at first that the cassette was the best option, but after I really dug in and played out all the scenarios in my head I realized the cassette is ok, but I definitely prefer the black tank.  In reality,  the black tank can easily be similar to the cassette as far as portability of the waste. Just get a portable dump tank and you get the best of both worlds. You can use the portable tank if you don't have hookups and then just dump the main tank if you do.  You can also use the portable tank to drain off some of your gray water because that fills up fast after 2-3 showers.  I will get links to what I use and edit my post shortly. 

Suggestions:

Get this cap so you can drain off some of your gray tank because it fills up pretty quick. You will also need a short piece of hose that has the hose fitting on at least one end that will thread onto this cap:

First two links are to be used together for gray tank only:

Valterra T1020-1 Waste Valve Cap - 3" with Capped 3/4" GHT, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006N5RYK/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_DXM60HP2ZWG5RMKD8RG4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I got this to put some gray water in:  Reliance Products Aqua Tainer 7 Gallon Drinking Water Storage Container Tank https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QC31G6/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_MQJFRE7J3SZXSSE1109Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1  This is big enough to siphon off about half of your gray tank and still not be too heavy to lift up into your vehicle. 

The link below could be your "cassette". This comes in a lot of different sizes.  You could just buy a big one and dump both gray and black, but that's a lot of weight to manage and you have to basically hook it up to the back of your tow vehicle then drive like 5mph parading through the campground with your poop in tow! I prefer to get the smallest CAMCO tank JUST for black only and its small enough to lift up into the back of my vehicle.  

Camco 39000 Rhino Heavy Duty 15 Gallon Portable RV Waste Holding Tank with Hose and Accessories - Durable Leak Free and Odorless RV Tote Tank https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DN8X8M6/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_JRAFBA91Z5XQCYTXX2QQ

Jay_and_Kat

@TabbyShack thank you!  Saved all of those to my Amazon list.  The place we've gone a couple times camping and are planning to go this summer again, doesn't have a dump station, the plan is to use the in-RV for those late night trips only.

Hmm.  I'm presuming you can still tow an RV with material in the grey and black tanks on public roads?  Or should you only do it to get to the nearest dump station, then hit the freeway?

Denny16

We own a TaB400, and have used it mainly for 4-5 day trips, supporting two adults.  Here are our experiences with then Gray and Black tank.

 1.  The Black tank is not under then trailer floor, it is under the toilet and goes under the wall cabinets next to the sink.  So as long as the cabin is heated (the Alde has a heat register in the shower/washroom) so the tank will not freeze.

2.  You will fill up the gray tank in about 3 days if you shower every day, or every other day.  We emptied the gray tank twice before dumping the black tank.  So a a portable dump tank mentioned above is a good idea for extended stays at a campground without hookups.

3.  You can tow the trailer with water in the fresh water tank, and the gray/black tanks without any issue.  That said, I would dump the tanks at the first opportunity to reduce overall trailer weight and avoid weight sifts caused by partially full tanks sloshing around.  But the Fresh water tank is under the trailer centered on the axle.  The gray tank is forward of the water tank.  So weight distribution is good.  Having a full gray tank will increase the tongue weight.

Hope this answers most of your questions.
 Cheers 

Sharon_is_SAM

@Jay_and_Kat - you can also purchase a second cassette to extend the time before needing to dump.  Another option to think about.

Binghi

If we make generous use of the park toilets my wife and I can go a week on our 2021 BD black tank. Grey tank fills more quickly even if we use the park showers. Seems the only way to slow that down is to wash dishes at the park basins, if any.

Jay_and_Kat

@Binghi Good to know, considering unless the owners have made some of the upgrades they have planned for the campground we go to, the only place to wash dishes would be either the camper or the restroom sink!  :-)

[Deleted User]

You could check to see if ok to wash dishes using your outside shower or filling up a wash container and dump the water on the ground but for sure ask if this is OK and also not good in areas with critters that may be drawn to your site by smelling food scraps possibly in the discarded water.  

DanManz

@Jay_and_Kat You are into important questions on water/waste management in your T@b.  We have a 2019 400 BDL and usually do 2-4 day trips.  We usually use campground toilets and showers unless they are not available or appear un-hygienic.  We have never run out of water or filled either our black or grey water tanks.  I suggest a couple of things- 1) Always know where your next dump station is located.  There are on-line apps that list them.  Sometimes you can pay a state park or private campground $10-$20 to just use their station.  We've got a nearby municipal waste treatment facility that doesn't charge for trailer dumps.  2) We also minimize grey water by washing dishes in two plastic wash basins.  One is for soapy water and one is for clean rinse water.  Everything gets wiped down with paper towels before washing and we use biodegradable soap so both basins can go pretty much anywhere (e.g. in a campground sink if available or on the ground if in a remote location).  The basins themselves nest below the sink in the rounded cabinet.  3) Brief Navy showers.  Dump your 400 as soon as its convenient and have fun!

Jay_and_Kat

@DanManz I'd already been thinking the showers were going to be "water on, get wet, water off, soap up, water on, rinse off, water off" at least when we're camping somewhere without showers (or there's a wait and we don't want to wait.)
Any suggestions on the apps to locate dump stations?

Denny16

Yes, Navy Showers are the way to extend your gray tank dump times.  Get a good discharge hose, like a Campco Rhino hose makes dumping the tanks fairly easy, you flush the black tank first, then the gray tank, and the hose gets rinsed.  

This is the hose I am referring to: https://www.campingworld.com/camco-rhinoflex-sewer-hose-kit-44151.html?msclkid=d3dd7782b0d71a9542f8167b55e5a32a&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5Badv%3A%20Camping%20World%5D%20%5Bplt%3A%20Bing%5D%20%5Bfun%3A%20Performance%5D%20%5Bini%3A%20Low%20Margin%5D%20%5Bstr%3A%20PROSP%5D%20%5Btgt%3A%20Shopping%5D%20%5Bcou%3A%20US%5D&utm_term=4580840328061525&utm_content=CW%20-%20Low%20Margin%2020%25%20or%20Less&gclid=d3dd7782b0d71a9542f8167b55e5a32a&gclsrc=3p.ds

Most dump sites have a water hose for cleaning the hose and holding tank, and the TaB400 has a black tank rinse fitting, to flush the tank out after dumping.
 Cheers 

JeffroNC

We just set a new record: 9 days of dry camping. (Only a Tab owner would be excited about this. LOL)
We used one of the caps with a hose fitting on it to drain 5 gallons of grey about half way through. I took it to the dump station. We used the CG showers and tried to use the bathrooms when we were out and at the CG as well. I use minimal water when washing dishes and don’t wait for it to get hot.

I see YouTubers talking about taking the cassette into a bathroom to dump it? Not something I want to do and we have been seeing more signs and notices prohibiting that practice.

Dutch061

We can easily get 10 to 14 days in the black tank because we use other restrooms during the day etc. Grey tank, we can get 4 to 5 days depending on weather and the number of showers we take. We never use the sink for dishes, we have 2 collapsible tubs that we use to wash and rinse dishes in. We also carry a 5-gallon water jug, so we can easily add water if needed. 

Brad

RCB

If I had a cassette toilet, I would probably have a spare cassette. It could be transported in the bathroom then stored under the trailer when at the campsite.