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External Smart Charger?

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    rfuss928rfuss928 Member Posts: 930
    YanniLazarus said:
    My 2 6v batteries are wired in parallel for 12v- and I leave them that way when charging.  I do use the battery shut off when charging.  My noco genius recognizes them as 12v, and I select AGM.  I believe I have 220 or so amp hours, but, well, am painfully aware of how often I am wrong!  I did call NOCO to confirm this was okay to do. 
    If your two 6 volt batteries are supplying 12 volts, they are wired in series.


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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,494
    @GregChris Part of the confusion may be that we’re all dealing with different trailers, battery configurations, and external chargers. But basically, using an external charger *may* be faster or more thorough than using the trailer’s converter. It also allows you to charge the battery without the parasitic drain of the trailer appliances, by simply the battery cutoff switch to off; that can also speed up charging.

    I find the NOCO genius10 charges my 105 ah AGM faster than simply plugging the trailer in, and therefore it’s a better fit for me for use with a generator, as I’d use less fuel to top off the battery. But that may be just my configuration; best to test your own setup to see what works best for you.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,290
    Everything we use in our T@B (with exception to the AC) runs off 12V, so even when shore power is available, it may work better to use the GENIUS10 plugged into the pedestal and tied directly to the battery. 
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    GregChrisGregChris Member Posts: 189
    We don't normally have anything 12v running except the isotherm fridge. I would think I could leave it on  while charging the battery directly. We did run our Winnie that way a week when our converter went out last year. That was plugged in though, not on a gen. We only dry camp a couple of times per year, mostly we are at state parks with hook ups. It's good to know this stuff in advance instead of figuring it out on the fly.
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    jbajorjbajor Member Posts: 135
    YanniLazarus said:
    My 2 6v batteries are wired in parallel for 12v- and I leave them that way when charging.  I do use the battery shut off when charging.  My noco genius recognizes them as 12v, and I select AGM.  I believe I have 220 or so amp hours, but, well, am painfully aware of how often I am wrong!  I did call NOCO to confirm this was okay to do. 
    Do you mean in series?
    Ultimate Toys Teardrop Camper
    Volvo XC-40
    SF Bay Area, California
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    YanniLazarusYanniLazarus Member Posts: 345
    jbajor said:
    YanniLazarus said:
    My 2 6v batteries are wired in parallel for 12v- and I leave them that way when charging.  I do use the battery shut off when charging.  My noco genius recognizes them as 12v, and I select AGM.  I believe I have 220 or so amp hours, but, well, am painfully aware of how often I am wrong!  I did call NOCO to confirm this was okay to do. 
    Do you mean in series?
    This is what happens when carpenters do electrical work!  Apparently wiring 2 6v batteries for 12v = series... and I've already forgotten that!   
    Yanni Lazarus 2020 T@B320S, 2018 RAV4 Adventure, Central CT
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,290
    edited December 2022
    jbajor said:Do you mean in series?
    As a guy who has anxiety attacks when I hear Keith Urban's Parallel Line, I was proud of myself for not being the one to bring this up.  ;)

    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    YanniLazarusYanniLazarus Member Posts: 345
    Well... since we're sharing... I have trouble believing that my two 6v agm batteries really give me 225 amp hours. Seems like a Christmas miracle. 
    Yanni Lazarus 2020 T@B320S, 2018 RAV4 Adventure, Central CT
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,290
    @YanniLazarus would you share more? What do those batteries weigh and what size (group) are they?

    Asking because I have two 12V Vmax 125Ah AGM batteries wired in parallel that I'm hoping to charge with a NOCO Genius10. I'm curious if there is any size/weight advantage to using two 6V batteries.
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    YanniLazarusYanniLazarus Member Posts: 345
    edited December 2022
    AnOldUR said:
    @YanniLazarus would you share more? What do those batteries weigh and what size (group) are they?

    Asking because I have two 12V Vmax 125Ah AGM batteries wired in parallel that I'm hoping to charge with a NOCO Genius10. I'm curious if there is any size/weight advantage to using two 6V batteries.
    I have two VMAX 6V 225Ah AGMs stacked on their sides in my old-style non-boondock 320S front storage bin.  They weigh 72 pounds each and are 9.5x7.3x11" high.  I bought them because they were the biggest batteries I could fit in the stock tub without modifying the battery switch, the silly black tank hose holder or the propane tank holder. I did have to make a wood base for the batteries and have them strapped in place without a box.  I've been really happy with them.   I still have the stock "dumb" Wifco from 2020, and use a  Noco genius 10 pretty exclusively for charging and maintenance. 
    Yanni Lazarus 2020 T@B320S, 2018 RAV4 Adventure, Central CT
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    GregChrisGregChris Member Posts: 189
    I don't camp without shore power that often, but when I do it would be nice to know what I'm doing. If I turn the battery switch off, and charge directly from the gen to external charger to the battery, my isotherm fridge is going to off that whole time. If I don't turn the battery off, the fridge will stay on, but it will take longer to charge. Also will I harm the trailer's converter if don't isolate the battery? If I plug the gen directly into the 320 I can use the coffee maker, microwave, etc while the gen is running, but the battery may not charge as fully. Also we shower while the gen running because the water pump seems to be the biggest power drain. The places we dry camp restrict generator time to 2 hrs morning and 2 hrs evening. We can mostly only do the evening because we leave for activities early. I hope I'm not rambling too much, I guess I figure it out eventually. By the I have the bd solar (roof) and a standard 50-60 amp/hr marine batt.
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    YanniLazarusYanniLazarus Member Posts: 345
    @GregChris, When I have shore power available- camping or even at home- I use the battery shut off to isolate the battery(s), then plug in the NOCO charger AND plug in the T@B power line as well. That way everything in the T@B is powered and I'm "smart" charging at the same time.   I'd do the same thing if I owned a generator. 
    Yanni Lazarus 2020 T@B320S, 2018 RAV4 Adventure, Central CT
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    techietabtechietab Member Posts: 159
    Seconding what @YanniLazarus said. I use the same approach.

    When you're plugged into shore power or a generator via the 30 amp port and the battery is isolated, all the onboard 12v stuff that usually sits 'north' of the battery disconnect switch is powered by the AC > DC converter in the WFCO power center, including the refrigerator.
    Northern VA
    2022 T@b 320 S / 2021 Subaru Outback
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,290
    YanniLazarus said:
    I have two VMAX 6V 225Ah AGMs ...They weigh 72 pounds each ...
    Hadn't put that much thought into this, but it does make sense that a 225Ah battery at 6V would be half of that amount of Ah's per battery when wired in series for 12V.

    The weight of these big AGM's will be my main motivation for switching to lithium. Performance wise, I have no complaints.

    There's been talk about turning the battery switch off when using a smart charger connected directly to the battery. Is that necessary? When plugged into shore power and the converter is charging the battery it may also be getting fed from the solar that's connected directly to the battery. How would a smart charger be any different than that? I'd like to think that the WFCO, Victron solar controller and the smart charger would be able to sort things out for the most efficient charging, but that could be a bad assumption.
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,507
    @AnOldUR - my Battery Tender smart charger specifies to isolate the battery without explanation as to why.  I think it is simply to optimize charging by halting any phantom draw down of the battery.  
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,290
    @Sharon_is_SAM my charger is a NOCO Genius10, so I checked with them. At least for the NOCO, your thinking is correct. I forgot to specifically ask about the WFCO when using shore power and the external charger at the same time, but he did say that solar is not a problem, so I'd assume it would be OK. He didn't answer the question if multiple sources (Genius10, WFCO and solar) would work together for a faster charge.

    Marcus
    This charger is being used for the batteries in a small teardrop trailer. I realize that it will extend the charging time, but will it cause any damage if I use the 12V power in the trailer while it’s charging from the GENIUS10? Another question, the trailer has a solar panel that’s tied directly to the batteries. Will the GENIUS10 and solar work together for faster charging or will there be a conflict?
    Thank you.

    Hello,
    Using power in the trailer while the GENIUS10 is charging will not cause any damage to the charger. This will extend charging times. The GENIUS10 has a built in timeout for it's charge cycle. If it doesn't detect that it has fully charged the battery it's connected to in a certain amount of time then it will display a bad battery error. The error is to communicate that the charger doesn't think the battery it's connected to is holding a charge because it hasn't reached peak voltage after so long but if you were to see it then it would likely be caused by a draw on the battery from using power in the trailer. Disconnecting/reconnecting the GENIUS10 will reset the charge cycle.
    The GENIUS10 and your solar panel should not interfere with one another.
    Regards,
    Marcus C
    NOCO Support Specialist

    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    GregChrisGregChris Member Posts: 189
    I think I stated this once on the forum, in sept on a very hot (90+) day at East Harbor SP (Ohio), our converter died, causing the battery to die. At the suggestion of the camp host, I bought an 8amp smart charger from Walmart. The only one I could find on short notice. Bottom line is we were plugged into shore so we could use the ac, and plugged the charger into the 110v on the camper, and put it on the battery. Everything worked that way. This was not our 320, but my previous trailer. Eventually the battery did recover also.
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,507
    So, the active use of the battery during charging with a smart charger interrupts the programmed charge cycle time, but using multiple charge sources just reduces the programmed charge cycle time.  Makes sense.  So, charge away!  As long as the phantom drain is small enough to be offset by multiple sources of charging, it should be ok.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,290
    edited December 2022
    This is the way I took it also @Sharon_is_SAM. Still it would be interesting to see what actually happens when these three charging sources (WFCO, solar and external charger) are used in different combinations. Has anyone with a smart shunt tested this? Or are they willing to do a test and report back?


    edit:
    Not wanting to get too far off topic, I'll add this as an edit. My smart charger may have paid for itself. We have a Ryobi 48V riding mower (4 x 12V sealed lead acid) that I managed to let the batteries go completely dead last winter. They would no longer take a charge with the factory charger or even with the NOCO in regular 12V mode. Using the NOCO repair setting, I think I may have revived two of the four. It took some jumping through hoops and a lot of time, but hoping to have the same luck with the other two so that I can find out if they will power the mower.
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    GregChrisGregChris Member Posts: 189
    I'm not one for reading instructions. Every morning while charging this way, the charger led read 'error'. I uplugged/replugged and it worked until the morning. Nice to know it just timed out.
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    SlackersSlackers Member Posts: 419
    We purchased the NOCO 10 to revive and keep our TV's battery alive (-it's not our daily driver). Since then we use it in repair mode each Spring on the Tab's dealer-installed flooded lead acid battery.  If'n the Tab's battery dies we'll likely replace it with Lithium and the NOCO will be used instead of the Tab's older-WFCO (as comments address in this thread).
    2019 Tab 320 CSS, 2019 Ranger TV, OH
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    jschmierjschmier Member Posts: 26

    I replaced the original 6-volt AGMs with a 200 AH lithium but decided not to upgrade the original converter.  Instead, I attached the output of a P67 Victron smart charger to the battery in parallel with the original converter output and separate controllers for rooftop and portable solar panels.  When plugged into shore power, I can plug the P67 into a separate circuit using any household extension cord or even one of the AC outlets on the tab.  When dry camping on non-solar days, I can plug the P67 into the 400-watt inverter on my Honda Ridgeline to recharge without having to deal with the 30-amp power cord.  This setup has worked well for me.

    2018 T@B 400/solar/2022 Honda Ridgeline
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