Changing out the Alde fluid.

db_cooper

This time I got out about a gallon. I drained, turned on Alde for a minute,  shut off, raised tongue and drained more. Turned on Alde again for a minute, lowered tongue, more came out. Repeated, but got very little.

With tongue high, I then filled the reservoir, turned on Alde til tank emptied. Shut off and repeat til level stopped dropping. I then leveled trailer and let Alde run for several hours. It never even gurgled loud this time.  I've got the recirculation pump at 2 so it is super quiet.

Sitting here toasty now 4 hours later, level hasn't changed.  I may drain the reservoir again in the spring, and dump my remaining antifreeze in then, just to freshen it up.

NomadPilgrim

I'm on year 4 with the same original glycol. Level hasn't changed and heat works great. Should I mess with it?

Tabaz

Read somewhere that something in the fluid degrades (evaporates?) over time. Probably a good idea to swap out after four years.  Easy to do because the automatic bleed valve Does a great job purging the air out of the new fluid.

ScottG

NomadPilgrim said:

I'm on year 4 with the same original glycol. Level hasn't changed and heat works great. Should I mess with it?

I'll confess I just wrapped up season five with the original glycol. I did add a little bit to the reservoir this year to top it off, though I'm not sure if it had evaporated or just splashed out of the overflow.

Pushing my luck, perhaps, but so far no issues. I'll go look mid-winter to make sure the Alde hasn't turned into a glycol popsicle.

I wonder if the amount of use contributes to glycol degradation. We rarely use the Alde for cabin heat, and only turn it on once or twice a day for a shot of hot water.

Verna

I have my glycol replaced every two years, but I certainly use mine a lot. 

As I recall, we had a recommendation that the glycol should be replaced every two years. 

Maybe @pthomas745 with his superior searching skills can find that original recommendation. 

lkc001

I purchased the recommended Century TF-1 Heat Transfer Fluid from Amazon--$24.95/gallon.  I have not seen the Prestone  brand recommended-- my research & reading found just pulling the plug will only drain @ 1 gallon from the alde-- t takes some kind of pump to get all the fluid out & it is more like 2+ gallons.  There is also a long discussion about this on the Facebook tab trailers group by Bob Peloquin.  Has anyone here used the pump kit & how is that done?  Has anyone just drained out whatever they could get out of the drain plug & refreshed the fluid by adding@ 1 gallon & then tested the fluid to see if it was still OK by just adding new fluid without pumping it all out?

Sharon_is_SAM

dbcooper (see above) just drained and filled and he did not empty it completely.  No testing however. Dale Helman tests his glycol.

RCB

I thought the correct fluid was Century TF 1 and was what NuCamp used. On that basis I am considering draining a portion of the fluid and topping it back up to the proper level, and do this annually. If there is any residue in the fluid drained, a flush would be in order.

Tabaz

ChanW recommended raising and lowering the trailer tongue in order to get all the fluid out. Seemed to have worked when I did my Alde basement mod. But I also raised one side and then the other.

Tabaz

Found this in the Alde manual under "care and maintenance:" 
"Glycol mixture must be changed every other year as properties such as corrosion protection will deteriorate."  (bold print per Alde)  "If Alde Premium Antifreeze is used, the change interval can be extended to five years under normal operating conditions."  No sure what Premium Antifreeze is.

Sharon_is_SAM

For some reason, I think the “Premium” variety is not available in the US.  

N7SHG_Ham

Fwiw the current recommend fluid in the NA market wasn't always it apparently. I once found some chatter on Airstream fourms that it was a different brand but issues, so now the Century fluid.

I think it isn't so much about freeze protection as degradation of the properties that protect the metal bits.

I think the premium fluid might be poisonous, in the USA the FDA won't allow it to be used to eleminate any potential of contaminated domestic water.

If you go to the Alde you tube channel, there is one session on antifreeze, I think they talk about multiple kinds, but they aren't available here in NA and in fact the NuCamp recommend brand is no where in sight.

Tabaz

That seems like a plausible rationale.  Alde USA recommended the Century product for my recent mod.  Note to self - change the glycol every two years.

ChanW

Yeah @Tabaz, at first I thought I'd gotten it all out by tilting it to and fro, but I realized when I refilled that I had nowhere near drained it all. When 'finished' I had too much leftover new stuff, and the system tested as too weak a % concentrate for it to be fresh!

After studying the hose geometry, drinking some wine, and studying it some more, I realized that the only way I could possibly drain all the glycol (by gravity) is if I add another drain-tap at the other low point in the system. Keep in mind that our Tab has three radiator heat exchanger things, where the later Tab has only two, so ours may be more complicated to drain than most others. (I have yet to add that extra drain tap!)

Also remember, if you're going to test your glycol, you'll want to test it for alcohol concentration (must use a refractometer), as well as testing the pH level, as that will degrade over time as well as the freeze-point.

Tabaz said:

ChanW recommended raising and lowering the trailer tongue in order to get all the fluid out. Seemed to have worked when I did my Alde basement mod. But I also raised one side and then the other.

Tabaz

Chan - I will review my Century purchase from Amazon and factor in the additional Alde hose loop to see if all the old fluid was drained. My TAB only has the two convectors in the cabin, so draining might be easier. What do you and Dale use to test the glycol?

ChanW

The refractometer I got was this (which Amazon no longer has):

"Grand Index Antifreeze/battery Refractometer RHA-503ATC -Motor Vehicle Antifreeze Fluid Hydrometer with Automatic Temperature Compensation"

And the pH tester (also no longer available on Amazon):

Etekcity High Accuracy Pocket Size Handheld pH Meter Pen Tester

Tabaz said:

Chan - I will review my Century purchase from Amazon and factor in the additional Alde hose loop to see if all the old fluid was drained. My TAB only has the two convectors in the cabin, so draining might be easier. What do you and Dale use to test the glycol?

ScottG

Good points about the degradation of the glycol's anti-corrosion properties over time. I did read about that at one point but ignoring it seemed the path of least resistance in the short term.  ;-)

I guess I should get my act together and plan to tackle this next season. In the meantime, perhaps the clever engineer types who frequent here can spend their winter months inventing an effective, low cost glycol-pump-thingy to facilitate complete drainage and refill in one pass!

Jackie_Dave

We need to change ours out in the spring. I found a couple of videos and it looks like a bit of work to get all of the antifreeze out of the system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1IXtHhFI8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADhn3cdR954

Not sure if this is how it is with all systems but what a PITA! The first video is using equipment the average owner wouldn't have. The second video is something we could put together, but would need to buy a few items to make it work. And would the average RV Dealer bother to flush so completely? Maybe. Maybe not.

hobbithouse

Well, to do or not to do, drain here or drain there, raise the front, lower the front, to use brand X antifreeze or brand Y? IMHO, it leaves little time to enjoy our campers and creates more time to worry. I was hoping to have fun owning a TAB but see micro managing the electronics and plumbing becoming close to owning Apollo13, which by the way, made it back to earth. I'm hoping to see NUCamp do the same. My 2 cents.

webers3

@hobbithouse This forum has been an immense help to me in troubleshooting and fixing issues when they come up. I am envious of the skills some of the members have to make modifications and repairs but I agree that some posts can be a little intimidating to us without the skills and sometimes provide some complicated ways to solve a simple problem. Keep your feet firmly planted on the ground, keep it simple and enjoy your camper. And regarding the need to change Alde's glycol, what was the last time you changed the antifreeze (which is also a form of glycol) in your car? Did you ever change it? Given the operating conditions of each, which would you think would be more critical to change? Bottom line, I wouldn't worry about it unless maybe you plan to use the Alde system 365 days/year.

ScottG

@hobbithouse and @webers3, I tend to agree with your sentiments--after all, I haven't worried about replacing my glycol going on six years now. However, there does seem to be some question about the durability of the Alde glycol compared to the more toxic version used in automobiles. While there are plenty of stern recommendations about what we should do and when, clear explanations of why we should do them are typically in shorter supply.

Now that the earliest Alde units are hitting six plus years of age, this is going to become a more common concern and one that nuCamp probably should offer a little guidance on. We don't all have have access to competent dealers who are knowledgeable of these uncommon units, nor do we all have the luxury of bringing our trailers to Ohio for top-notch VIP service from the factory. Many of us need to have a practical means of performing such tasks ourselves, and this one seems to be particularly vexing.

If someone doesn't beat me to it, maybe I'll see if I can solicit a little more input from nuCamp or Alde USA. The Alde may be a relatively complicated piece of camping equipment, but it is most certainly not a rocket ship...

lkc001

@ScottG   I really really wish that someone more mechanically inclined WOULD reach out to nucamp & get some CLEAR DETAILED info on how to do it & what equipment would be needed— I have no problem doing simple repairs or mods or winterizing but this business with a special pump & having to take half the alde Plumbing apart really annoys me that we don’t have clear info— my nearest “dealer” I wouldn’t take a go- cart to for mtce or repairs!!! I hope someone can get some answers!!! Hello nucamp— are you listening???

lkc001

More mechanically inclined than ME is what I meant to say😖

TabberJohn

Sharon_is_SAM said:

For some reason, I think the “Premium” variety is not available in the US.  

Not sure what's what in the US but here's a UK forum post (fluid good for 5 years) --
https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/137861-5-year-fluid-standard-in-all-alde-equipped-uk-caravans/?tab=comments#comment-1668957

N7SHG_Ham

ALL campers have maintenance and for the most part way more frequently than your home. It isn't all cute and no work.

I change my auto antifreeze as recommended, it is a routine maintenance item. So is changing oil and a number of other items, how about brake fluid? That is on a two year change regardless of miles. Maybe some folks neglect this stuff, I don't know.

I will tackle the Alde fluid in spring of 2021 when my unit is to years old. How I will do that remains to be seen, I may rent the pump gear from Alde (I believe I read someplace they do have rental equipment?)

ScottG

N7SHG_Ham said:

ALL campers have maintenance and for the most part way more frequently than your home. It isn't all cute and no work.

Roger that. Even the best campers are flimsy houses with mediocre components that we hitch up behind our vehicle and drag down the road in all conditions. Yet owners wonder why their toy breaks. Personally, I'm surprised and impressed it's not broken a lot more than it is!  :-)

N7SHG_Ham said:

I change my auto antifreeze as recommended, it is a routine maintenance item. So is changing oil and a number of other items, how about brake fluid? That is on a two year change regardless of miles. Maybe some folks neglect this stuff, I don't know.

I will tackle the Alde fluid in spring of 2021 when my unit is to years old. How I will do that remains to be seen, I may rent the pump gear from Alde (I believe I read someplace they do have rental equipment?)

That said, I do tend to ignore some maintenance items more than others. However, this is typically a calculated risk rather then ignorance.

Please be sure to keep us posted when you tackle this job. I feel like a pumping device (even a manual one) wouldn't be too hard to cobble together. I'm just not sure exactly how to properly use it...

db_cooper

I'm hoping someone will tackle creating either a homemade pump or low point gravity drain valve solution.  Until then, I'll do a partial drain and fill every year,  maybe that will keep it fresh enough.

ScottG

This short video makes it look pretty easy (sort of). However, that Alde pump is one scary looking contraption! It's unclear to me why the end that pumps fluid into the Alde appears to have two hoses connected to it.

ScottG

Apparently the Alde pump does more than just fill the system. By twiddling with some valves it also circulates the glycol at high speed to drive out trapped air. Maybe something that is not necessary with models having an automatic bleeder?

(Look here under How is Alde AntiFreeze changed?)

ScottG

And this other short video gives some insight into how the filling and bleeding functions work.