My Solar Setup Updates

jkjenn

My solar setup failed me this year. I wrongly assumed it was because I had not protected my solar controller from the elements when in travel. Inspired by the thread, "Our Portable Suitcase Setup", I created "quick connects for my controller and made it removable with industrial, inspired by @Sharon_is_SAM I now can remove it and mount it using industrial strength velcro.


I mounted with heatsink facing away from the lid to promote cooling.



I am using Anderson connectors from the battery to the controller and MC4 cables from the panels to the controller. I ordered the Anderson connector cables from Powerworx, using their design your own cable.

I have 2 HQST flexible solar panels that are approximately 2 years old. I am an early adopter and when I purchased these, there were not many options as Renogy had just pulled their flexible panels from the market. In researching diagnosing solar panel problems, I stumbled across this video. Although I do not share his exposure to extreme temperature swings, my other issues are similar, although my panels are not at the point of being as brittle as his, yet, they do have the milky cast and they have both shorted out.

https://youtu.be/lupsJXMx8ho

This is not to alarm anyone but more of a food for thought for those who are on the fence about whether to buy flexible or not. The key seems to be to to look for panels that have a layer of ETFE. 

I am not sure which panels to go with or how quickly I will replace them. I am actually considering getting 3 or 4 of the Renogy mini Eclipse 50w panels and running them in series. They come with a kickstand and corner guards and that air size makes them easier to stow in a TV than a 100w panel, although I may yet go with flexible, agaian, or even a couple of 100w suitcase panels.

Sharon_is_SAM

@jkjenn, good idea facing the heat sink away from the tub underside.  May consider this as well.  Since you have the Victron BMV, it does not matter too much if you can see the lights.  You can always peel it off the velcro to check it out.

jkjenn

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@jkjenn, good idea facing the heat sink away from the tub underside.  May consider this as well.  Since you have the Victron BMV, it does not matter too much if you can see the lights.  You can always peel it off the velcro to check it out.

Those were exactly my thoughts, too. Also, should see lights when connecting everything before mounting.

Ratkity

I'm not sure, but your Victron model may have the bluetooth dongle connector. It's fabulous at making sure all is well. 

That said, the controller is being exposed to some VERY high heat in that aluminum tub. Wanna know how I know? I put my porous near-impervious patio mat in my large old one and one of the short cheapo sewer hoses. Both were touching the top of the lid. Both melted. The controller has an IPX-7 rating and can handle weather (the bluetooth dongle doesn't, don't ask me why). Have you considered putting it elsewhere? Just a suggestion, I'm sure you looked for all available ones. Have you thought of the "lunchbox" option? 

My Renogy panels were part of the recall. One square on one shorted out and even discolored the gel coat of the T@Bitha on the top of the roof. I went out into the snow to get these off. What a pain! I put them up with 3M automotive trim tape. Now that stuff sticks GREAT. You never see car trim ripping off at 70 mph

Renogy was so nice to me. I tried the 100W (non-flexible) suitcase. It was heavy! Wait.. it still is. Anyhow, I camp in mostly shaded areas. I wanted the panels to keep my battery topped off despite phantom power when I parked next to the house (very sunny). 

I did the "lunchbox" option with the controller and it is strapped to the tongue. It hasn't moved at all. I use all the same connectors as you. I set up the 100W glass suitcase panel in the empty garden. It worked wonderful! I wanted to try to set them up on the backyard fence where there was more light, but the front garden works great. 

With my toy hauler, 100W does not handle the phantom power in it even though I put an on/off switch on the Jensen unit. I think the remote control for the Maxx air fan and the SeeLevel panel take a lot of power. If I flip the battery breaker I installed, the 100W panel works great as a tender. Part of the problem is where I put the suitcase panel, but it's not worth it to move it. I have it locked to the iron railing.

DougH

@jkjenn    So sorry about your panels. I've seen several YouTube videos rife with flex panel failures or significant drops in power.  I know mine (VHB'ed to the top) only lasted a year and were degraded by some hail before the heat could do them in.  I'm tempted to put an insulation barrier between the roof and panels when I replace them.  If I had a rack or was willing to add one on, that seems like the best way to go.

jkjenn

@Ratkity that is some good food for thought. It gets pretty hot in direct sun without the solar controller.

@DougH an insulation barrier might not be a bad idea. I feel for the folks who live in hail prone area. It seems like every year year, folks have damaged T@bs from hailstorms in the Front Range.

I love the lightweight factor of the flexible panels. The new Renogy Eclipse are much lighter and use 10 AWG cable but are also more expensive. I like the light Renogy Eclipse 50w because of the kickstand and the corner guards. The corners of rigid panels can be vicious. 

DougH

Once LM has scaled their 100MW fusion reactor:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-fusion-idUSKCN0I41EM20141015

...down to the size of an Alde, none of us will have to mess with panels and batteries.  The 2026 NuCamp Boondock BrightStar edition with the 1MW power module will likely include a laser defense system again hailstones.  Or am I too optimistic? 

rfuss928

My UniSolar panels (NLA) are 8 years old and look and perform as new.

They had certifications from several building material and construction agencies for commercial roof top installations.  (They were even hurricane rated in FL.)   A big influence in my choice.

There must be some similarly rated panels available which should hold up better on top of a T@B (or any RV)!?   Many of the low cost PV panels are aimed at the hobbyist and experimental markets.

Choose wisely!

Have Fun!

Bob

jkjenn

DougH said:

Once LM has scaled their 100MW fusion reactor:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-fusion-idUSKCN0I41EM20141015

...down to the size of an Alde, none of us will have to mess with panels and batteries.  The 2026 NuCamp Boondock BrightStar edition with the 1MW power module will likely include a laser defense system again hailstones.  Or am I too optimistic? 

Not sure how I feel about fusion reactor below where I lay my head at night. 

jkjenn

@Ratkity I have been noodling over your comments. A thoughts and questions to help me process. 

If you notice the first photo, above, you can see where it was previously mounted, between the battery cut off switch and the bus bars. So, it was already mounted inside of the tub. Nearly the entire rear of the diamond plate cover is open, so there is a fair opportunity for heat to escape. I am not saying you are wrong, but I never noticed significant heat inside of the cover before. Perhaps it was because it was mounted against the rear frame and the heatsink was facing outward? It was in use in some pretty hot sun in over 100 degree temps and I never noticed and issue, but maybe it was greater than I realized - thoughts?


Also, I have decided on 4 of the Renogy MIni-Eclipse panels. I am considering adding hinges to make suitcases out of them and perhaps a latch or magnets to keep them closed. Open to ideas. There is not a lot of unused space on the face of the panels along the side to add a magnet, so I was thinking of gluing one the top and bottom. 

Ratkity

I love the look of those panels!! You didn't say the wattage, but I'll look them up.

I see the heat sink would have some dissipation near the diamond plate, especially while driving. That said, heat rises. In reading instructions and following other people's comments , it specifically says to mount so the heat sink is vertical.

My feeling (my opinion only) is that the controller board is going to be producing heat but will have additional heat coming down from the diamond plate to get rid of (I've been scalded by diamond plate).

My fix is not as extreme as you might think... just add an inch of space between the top of the diamond plate and the controller. I can envision getting two brackets that you can hang the controller in the same position from the top and get air space. You can mount the brackets under the heat sink. Nothing to drill on the controller. You would have to put stainless screws in the top of the diamond plate and lap seal them. 

The open part of your diamond tub is another potential spot right between your bus and your cut off switch. You'd be vertical and you'd only have to use the top 2 screw spots on the heat since to hold it onto the tub rim. 

Thoughts? 

Another idea. That thin reflective stuff between your command strips would even help!

I'm brainstorming here.

Going to look at your panels!!

Edit: D'oh, I see where you said 50W!!

jkjenn

Ratkity said:

The open part of your diamond tub is another potential spot right between your bus and your cut off switch. You'd be vertical and you'd only have to use the top 2 screw spots on the heat since to hold it onto the tub rim. 

Your alternate location was my original location. If you look closely, you can see where the 2 screws were located. I think I might try the old Velcro on my original location. My concern has always been rain kicking into the unit while in transit mounted on that back frame. 

Ratkity said:

I see the heat sink would have some dissipation near the diamond plate, especially while driving. That said, heat rises. In reading instructions and following other people's comments , it specifically says to mount so the heat sink is vertical.

My feeling (my opinion only) is that the controller board is going to be producing heat but will have additional heat coming down from the diamond plate to get rid of (I've been scalded by diamond plate). 

Interesting idea about brackets. 

Ratkity said:

I love the look of those panels!! You didn't say the wattage, but I'll look them up.

Edit: D'oh, I see where you said 50W!!

I really like the corner guard idea. Now trying to find the right size box or case for storage in transport. I might have to make one so that I am not wasting space.

Ratkity

Industrial velcro would work. I've had those fail with a clock that weighs less than our controller. I think the wires would hold it though in case that happened. I can't remember.... Did you put decorative aluminum sheet in the back of your tub? I didn't see any, but I had mine just across the bottom half.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Building-Products-36-in-x-36-in-Cloverleaf-Aluminum-Sheet-Silver-57166/202091746

Ratkity

Oh! The unit is IPX7. It's essentially waterproof (not scuba diving-proof). Rain splash isn't going to kill it. The bluetooth dongle end is not and should be placed elsewhere, but that wire is long. 

jkjenn

I did not add decorative aluminum. Mine is altered a bit, to fit the dual batteries and I have never been sure if it would work, but truthfully, I have not thought a lot about it.

Ratkity

I just used that same velcro you have and used it to attach the decorative sheet to the back of the tub after making the large opening nearly the same size as the original tub (then had to re-enforce the opening so the struts didn't bend the metal oiy!). I had to take automotive trim edging to the cutout to stop donating DNA to the tub. My new tub was aftermarket.

Regarding the decorative sheet, I just didn't want little things to jump out and still wanted airflow. 

BTW, this has nothing to do with your solar setup!!! Was just throwing out the mod idea of the decorative sheet aluminum and still having the airflow.

jkjenn

Feeling a little frustrated....

Solar question: what's wrong with this picture? I have 4 new Renogy 50w mono panels. I get 0 watts from them. I have tried just one panel, 2 panels in series, and 4 in series. They seem to work OK with my mppt controller in my Goal Zero Yeti. I realize that the photo of the panels show one in shade, but I moved them all to full sun and still, nothing. I also tested them under mid-day sun.

I also notice that my solar controller shows a different battery voltage than my BMV 700.

I have branch connectors coming, tomorrow. I will run 2 panels in series, each, and then run the 2 sets in parallel.  Maybe I just need to run them in parallel because they are 50watt, but is getting frustrating.

One panel



BMV 700 Battery Monitor

jkjenn

From solar controller, positive goes to battery, negative to load,/charge side of shunt for battery monitor.

Ratkity

You've got an open circuit somewhere. Try just one panel.

jkjenn

Ratkity said:

You've got an open circuit somewhere. Try just oneresults.

Thanks, I started with just one and got the same results. It has to be something stupid I am doing 

 

jkjenn

The little screen icon is covering up state, which says "Off."

SweetlyHome

Jen,

I'm not real familiar your controller or set up but your getting a voltage on the panel side so that suggests that circuit is likely good. The opposite is true of the battery side, no indication of complete circuit, voltage or current.  Is there a fuse that blown or a switch open on that side?  

Have you tried a meter across the battery side terminals?

jkjenn

SweetlyHome said:

Jen,

I'm not real familiar your controller or set up but your getting a voltage on the panel side so that suggests that circuit is likely good. The opposite is true of the battery side, no indication of complete circuit, voltage or current.  Is there a fuse that blown or a switch open on that side?  

Have you tried a meter across the battery side terminals?

You know, I agree, so I am dumbfoubded.  I checked all of the fuses and they were good. I actually had a spare set of pigtails (fused) to go between the controller and battery and swapped them out, too.

Chris, on FB, suggested it might be producing watts but because the controller sees the battery at 100%, it will not send any watts to charge. I d not remember if that is how the app readout works, if 0 watts is the amount sent to the battery or the amount being produced.

SweetlyHome

Watts, IHMO, would be the same produced or delivered.  The difference would be tiny if measured, only the losses within the controller.

Now that you remind me of reading it "Off" seems like an unusual  state.  Sort of expect things  like "Full", "Charged" or "Charging" and voltage of 12-14ish.  Does your controller have an "Off" function?

jkjenn

SweetlyHome said:

Watts, IHMO, would be the same produced or delivered.  The difference would be tiny if measured, only the losses within the controller.

You are correct. I found a manual for the app. Victron has such great documentation. 

"Solar 'Gauge' icon shows the dynamic real-time power output from the solar array. With regard to the Solar Panel voltage, note that the Solar charger will only operate once the Panel voltage has risen more than 5V above battery voltage."

I am going to dig into the rest that I found, a little deeper:

"

• Battery - Voltage The voltage measurement is taken at the battery terminals of the Solar charger.
• Battery - Current This reading shows the current flowing-to, or drawn-from the battery terminals of the Solar charger. Note that in the case of the 100/20 Solar chargers and smaller - which have a dedicated load output - a Positive notation alongside the current reading means that current is flowing to the battery; whereas a Negative notation means that current is being drawn from the battery.
• Battery - State:
  • Bulk: During this stage the Controller delivers as much charge current as possible to rapidly charge the batteries. When the battery voltage reaches the Absorption voltage setting, the Controller activates the Absorption stage.
  • Absorption: During this stage the Controller switches to the constant voltage mode, where a pre-set absorption voltage, suitable to the battery type (See section 4.1 Battery Settings below), is applied. When the charge current decreases below the Tail current and/or the pre-set Absorption time has elapsed, the battery is fully charged. The Controller switches to the Float stage. The Tail current is 1A for models 100/20 and smaller; and 2A for larger models. (When an automatic equalisation is being performed this will also be reported as 'Absorption'.)
  • Float: During this stage the float voltage is applied to the battery to maintain a fully-charged state.
  • Equalization: This is shown when 'Start equalization now' is pressed in the battery settings. The charger applies the equalization voltage to the battery as long as the current level stays below 8% (Gel or AGM) or 25% (tubular plate) of the bulk current. "

SweetlyHome

Hope you don't mind, I'd like to make sure I understand.

This is the report from your Solar controller.


No Watts generated by the panel and no voltage at the output, should be the battery voltage at least.  Status is "Off"

And this is the report from your Battery Monitor.



The battery voltage is 12.72.  Parasitic loads in the camper are drawing .2 amps.

Just a suggestion.  Disconnect the battery wires from the Solar Controller and check 
the 12 volts are present if you can.  Verifies the wiring is OK on that side.  Verify the polarity is correct.  If reversed the controller may have shut itself off.

jkjenn

SweetlyHome said:

Hope you don't mind, I'd like to make sure I understand.

This is the report from your Solar controller.


No Watts generated by the panel and no voltage at the output, should be the battery voltage at least.  Status is "Off"

And this is the report from your Battery Monitor.



The battery voltage is 12.72.  Parasitic loads in the camper are drawing .2 amps.

Just a suggestion.  Disconnect the battery wires from the Solar Controller and check 
the 12 volts are present if you can.  Verifies the wiring is OK on that side.  Verify the polarity is correct.  If reversed the controller may have shut itself off.

Yup...will do it, again, tomorrow, thanks. Moon is under cloudcover so can't do it, tonight.

I also found there is a way to turn the charger off u der battery setti gs, so I will take another look, there, tomorrow.

elbereth

@jkjenn, when my battery is fully charged, the watts display my Victron app will oscillate somewhere between 0 and 10W even in full sun (which seems confusing to me - I’d expect that to be what the panels are pulling from the sky, not what they’re pushing into the battery).  BUT, the battery section of the app will show the voltage of the battery, and the state will be “float.” 

I wonder if somehow your charge controller is not “seeing” the battery as connected.  

jkjenn

elbereth said:

@jkjenn, when my battery is fully charged, the watts display my Victron app will oscillate somewhere between 0 and 10W even in full sun (which seems confusing to me - I’d expect that to be what the panels are pulling from the sky, not what they’re pushing into the battery).  BUT, the battery section of the app will show the voltage of the battery, and the state will be “float.” 

I wonder if somehow your charge controller is not “seeing” the battery as connected.  

Thanks, that is quite helpful. I will be sure to put a larger load on the battery to test.

ChrisK

Yup, that was me on Facebook. My app shows high wattage in the AM but as the battery gets more charge, it shows less wattage from the panel. That's why I'm convinced it only shows how many watts it is using from the panels that the camper is actually using. Its a far more useful number to me than how much it is producing because as the number decreases, you know you are nearing a full state on your battery. If it is showing a large number, your battery state is lower or your are drawing a lot of power. 

jkjenn

I left the batter on overnight, tonight, so the phantom drain should give it room to charge.