Maiden Voyage of the Trailpixie Boondock

Trailpixie

We finally picked up our T@B S Boondock on Friday. We headed out to the mountains of West Virginia for our first trip: boondocking in Canaan Valley. Everything went well for our 180-mile drive up. We arrived at our planned site after dark, but I had scouted the site a few months ago, so there wasn't any uncertainty. It was raining for our setup (as a matter of fact, it rained all weekend). 

The pump had problems--I think it was some sort of vapor lock or something.
One of the stereo speakers didn't work.
There was almost no hot water
The heater took two hours to heat the camper from 50 degrees F to 65 degrees F
On the way home the sway bar partially fell off. This taught me that I really like the swaybar.
In our last thirty minutes the trailer brakes failed.

Aside from all that stuff, we LOVE our Boondock. I know all that stuff will get fixed or I'll go sit on the sales-guy's desk until he does.

Next stuff to do is get the mattress topper and solar added.

dragonsdofly

@Trailpixie, congrats on finally taking delivery of your trailer. Condolences regarding the full blown case of t@bitis! Instead of swearing you got a lemon, you still love it, and will keep it, in spite of the temporary flaws. Yep, full blown. Good luck with everything.

Sharon_is_SAM

We need more info to be helpful to you.

What kind of problems did you have with the pump?

Did you previously test the hot water?  How long was the Alde turned on before testing the hot water?  Have you adjusted the mixer valve yet?

Were your radiator vents open to air?  Did you have the window and fan cracked a bit as that will aid air flow.  Did you test the temperature with another thermometer as the Alde display can require adjustment.

What kind of brake controller do you have?  How do you know the brakes failed?  Did you adjust the brake controller after you connected the TaB?

Looks like your chains need a bungee cord to tighten them up or you risk snagging them on something.

rkj__

I'm glad you realize that those problems can be fixed, and that you still love your new little trailer.  I wish you all the best with getting the issues sorted out quickly and painlessly. 

Trailpixie

Sharon_is_SAM said:

We need more info to be helpful to you.

What kind of problems did you have with the pump?

Sometimes the pump work d as expected. It would come on for 30 seconds or a minute Ute and then go off until we used a good bit of water and then it would come back on for a few more seconds. Other times it would keep running and running. After 4 or 5 minutes we decided there was something wrong and turned it off. The fresh-water tank was at 94%. We waited fifteen minutes and tried turning it back on. It continued the same behavior. So we started turning it on only to use it for the toilet or sink. The pressure was very poor, but it worked marginally. After a few times of going through this process, my wife used it for the toilet and it made a clunk sound and then worked normally. This behavior happened twice over the weekend.

Did you previously test the hot water?  How long was the Alde turned on before testing the hot water?  Have you adjusted the mixer valve yet?

We tested with electric heat, and it worked. We didn’t adjust the mixer valve. The dealer said it was set at the coolest setting, and that was okay with us because it felt reasonably hot when we put our hands under the water in the sink.

Were your radiator vents open to air?  Did you have the window and fan cracked a bit as that will aid air flow.  Did you test the temperature with another thermometer as the Alde display can require adjustment.

The ceiling fan was cracked with an inch or so of daylight. No windows were open. We tested the temp with our brain thermometer that said it was not in the 70’s as it was set. We also tested the Alde heat on electric and it worked much better.

What kind of brake controller do you have?  How do you know the brakes failed?  Did you adjust the brake controller after you connected the TaB?

Tekonsha Prodigy wireless controller. The controller was adjusted and worked just fine for 350 miles before the problem occurred.

Looks like your chains need a bungee cord to tighten them up or you risk snagging them on something.

Good idea.


Thanks for any help you can provide. This forum helped us with so many things before we even got started.

pthomas745

My Prodigy on my first trip worked fine.  The second trip, it was "grabbing" a bit, and I had to learn to adjust it again.  After that, there has been no issues.  I just make sure the 7 pin is connected properly.  So, maybe an adjustment might be necessary.  And, your pump filter may be clogged.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=OTzFW73QHOuf0wL53a_oAg&q=pump+filter++site:tab-rv.vanillaforums.com&oq=pump+filter++site:tab-rv.vanillaforums.com&gs_l=psy-ab.3...2984.7470..8226...0.0..0.120.1695.24j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.XPKk30XdsPw

The pipes in the trailer are pretty small, and even the merest bit of debris in the filter can have a big impact.

Sharon_is_SAM

When possible, it is best to de-air the plumbing on a city water hookup then your pump has a much easier time priming.  Also, unscrew pump filter cap and clean it if any debris.

The mixer valve adjustment will allow less cold water and help your hot water supply last longer.  Do you have the instructions for setting the screw?

Sounds like you need to calibrate the Alde thermostat first.

 

Trailpixie

Where is the pump filter cap?

Sharon_is_SAM

The intake side of the pump has a plastic cap that screws onto a cup.   Inside it is a fine, mesh cylinder filter.

pthomas745

Mine was in a different orientation, but the ideas/photos in this thread showed me what to look for.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/1604/water-pump-filter

dsfdogs

"The ceiling fan was cracked with an inch or so of daylight. No windows were open. We tested the temp with our brain thermometer that said it was not in the 70’s as it was set. We also tested the Alde heat on electric and it worked much better."

@Trailpixie I have only used my heat on electric, but I have the ceiling fan open further (6") and two windows cracked to help with ventilation and condensation. I also discovered a USB fan set on the back shelf helps disperse the heat coming up from the back and creates air circulation. I also prop open an inch the side access cupboard door to allow more heat out from the bench at night. I have my heat set at 65. Also, I use the little thermometer that came with my T@B to verify true temp as the Alde panel tends to register cooler as it's close to the A/C and ceiling fan.

Trailpixie

So I played with my alde heat more this weekend (this time under 110v electric). I still couldn't get it much above 64 degrees F. I did discover a few things. 

1) There really isn't any convection circulation moving the heat from the back of the camper (behind the bench). Those radiators bake the wood and make it hot underneath the cabinets, but that heat can't get out. It is too hot to touch that wood for more than a few seconds.

2) You can open the ceiling fan...wide open...but without anything on the floor drawing heat past the radiators in the back of the camper, you still can't get a convection going.

3) The outside storage door opens to the compartment that adjoins the rear radiators through a narrow (inch or so) slit. To try to get some air to draw, I left the outside compartment door wide open. Still no air was drawn upward.

4) If you turn the ceiling fan on, even slightly, the temps plummet and all the heat is evacuated.

5) The compartment with the alde unit itself is hot. Why not ventilate that heat to somewhere useful. 

At this point, my opinion is that the attempt at a fanless convection design in this T@B is a big failure. The rear radiators make up most of the heat exchangers, and they are completely isolated in the back with no significant airflow coming from the bottom.

Some of my ideas:

• put an opening and duct from the bench seat back to the bottom of the rear radiator.
• consider adding small fans to push air through the duct.
• consider putting a single fan in the radiator box under the passenger side bench seat to move more air across that exchanger (probably very easy)

I wonder if the alde boiler or thermostat has power pins for adding small thermostat-controlled 12 volt fans. If not, I could just put a switch on the fans and run them at low speed and leave them on most of the time.  

DougH

I love the Alde, but this would look pretty if I could find a place to put it for extended winter camping...

   https://youtu.be/zzq2MlX8kRo

DougH

Do the gurus suspect Trailpixie has air in the system or something?  Hot water takes a while, but on 120V or propane our whole cabin warms in 15 minutes.  We can feel the warmth in the tubes running to the passenger radiator within a minute and that wood surround on the front radiator gets toasty too (with windows closed up). 

Trailpixie

My dealer talked to people at NeCamp who weren't too helpful and then talked to Alde. They were able to fix the problem we were having with hot water, so I think it is getting hot enough now. 

When I get down under the seat and look at the boiler, the radiator hoses are too hot to touch for more than a second. I am pretty sure it's getting hot enough. I just think the heat isn't getting moved around the rest of the camper.

jkjenn

I have ne er had a problem working up the T@  with the Alde, but truthfully, I always have the back bench flat, so it is easier for air to circulate. @Trailpixie did you try the Alde with the bench bbn both upright and flat? On my 2015, there are vent slots toward the top if the radiator area that do not seem to be effective unless the bench is flat.

Trailpixie

jkjenn said:

I have ne er had a problem working up the T@  with the Alde, but truthfully, I always have the back bench flat, so it is easier for air to circulate. @Trailpixie did you try the Alde with the bench bbn both upright and flat? On my 2015, there are vent slots toward the top if the radiator area that do not seem to be effective unless the bench is flat.

I tried I both ways.

do you have vents going under the rear bench to get air up to the rear radiator? 

ScottG

I have vents near the floor and at the top of the cabinets to facilitate airflow over the fin-tube convectors. It's far from a perfect system as it is too easy to block those vents with bedding, or with items stored under the bed. I rarely use the Alde for heat, but when I have it works fine, though I do suspect a lot of the heat remains trapped in and under the cabinetry.

It's important to note that those fin-tube things are technically convectors (not radiators as they are commonly called). As you have clearly deduced, their proper operation depends entirely on a smooth flow of air under, over, and up from the fins.

Trailpixie

ScottG said:

I have vents near the floor and at the top of the cabinets to facilitate airflow over the fin-tube convectors. It's far from a perfect system as it is too easy to block those vents with bedding, or with items stored under the bed. I rarely use the Alde for heat, but when I have it works fine, though I do suspect a lot of the heat remains trapped in and under the cabinetry.

It's important to note that those fin-tube things are technically convectors (not radiators as they are commonly called). As you have clearly deduced, their proper operation depends entirely on a smooth flow of air under, over, and up from the fins.

Interesting. I was surprised that when I left the outside storage door AND the roof ventopen — even then—I didn’t have a strong convection air flow.  

I think some small 3-inch forced-air fans might help get the heat out of those corners.  That wood is sooo hot. I really think I just need to move that heat around...the alde  boiler will make more.  

jgram2

@Trailpixie If you haven’t done so already, you can see several mods folks have done to add vents, some look easy, some more complex, by searching on ‘heat vent”.

ScottG

I wonder if those additional vents can still be added on newer models where the storage cubbies have been incorporated into the back deck? My vague recollection is the members who did that mod (like woodworker Verna) had older T@Bs with just a simple shelf back there.

dsfdogs

@ScottG you are correct in wondering as the back storage with the lid is an enclosed box. The heat comes up from behind along the wall. If vents were added, then more vents would be needed in the bottom of the box/cubby itself.

As I said above, I keep the fan lid open 5-6" and two windows in crack position. I use a small 12v/USB fan on the back shelf to help direct warm air away from the back wall and help circulate the air, especially at night. I also prop open slightly the end cupboard door on passenger seat at night. Until I camped in the mid 20 degrees at night, I only ever used one electric and never propane. The area in the back where the convectors are is also clear of stuff. I wouldn't call the Alde heat "strong convection air flow" as it's more a gentle rising of heat. It took a few trips for me to get used to it and love it. 

ScottG

I agree it's not a particularly strong flow. Without something to force the air over the fins, it's entirely dependent on hot air's tendency to rise (just like the baseboards in a house). More venting and/or forcing the air movement with fans--as Trailpixie suggested--is probably the best you can do to get that hot air moving out a little faster.

@Trailpixie, what was the outdoor temperature when you were unable to get the cabin above 64F? Like any heating plant, the Alde's performance is going to depend on the amount of heat loss you are trying to counteract, which in turn will depend on the temperature difference you are trying to maintain. As well built as it may be, the T@B is still a thinly insulted box with a high surface area to volume ratio. As others have noted on the forum, the Alde may have hard time keeping up with heat loss at colder temperatures. 

BrianZ

I wonder if your glycol level is adequate - did you check?  Also wonder if the Alde glycol pump is working & what level the switch is set for?  If glycol isn't circulating properly, that might cause it to get too hot close to the unit but not adequately distribute the heat to the fins.
We've always been impressed with how the Alde keeps us toasty in cold weather, at least on electric power.

Trailpixie

I’ll end up adding some low-speed fans. The wood behind the bench is almost too hot to touch in places. That isn’t okay with me, and it indicates that there is excess heat that isn’t getting around.  Further evidence that there is plenty of heat that isn’t getting distributed is the fact that the hoses are too hot to touch for more than a second.  The system has enough BTUs.  

Those heat exchangers in the back can be seen if you shine a flashlight into the outside storage compartment door.  All the way in the back you can see the bottom edge of one sticking down.  

The simplest thing would be to use a fan to add some air pressure to that compartment, but I’m not excited about circulating air from the grubby-stuff compartment. 

I think my my plan is to use some 3” ducting and run a duct from the front of the kick panel of the bench back to the bottom of the heat exchangers.  In the middle of that duct (isolated under the bench) I’m going to mount a small, low-speed fan like you would install in an old computer case.  

I dont one think that I need to move a lot of air, but I’m gonna keep after it until that heat exchanger cools down a good bit.  Maybe I’ll need two ducts or something.  

On on a related note, I was surprised that opening the door to the storage compartment didn’t create enough fresh-air draw to pull the heat up. (I tried with and without the ceiling fan on and with the door cracked slightly and with it wide open). Also interesting about that door was that when I just unlocked it and left it dangling open, it “breathed”in and out. I stood there and watched it for several minutes, watching it open and close about once a second.  This suggests to me that there really isn’t any flow in their. With the roof vent open, the camper is still a little airlock.  I tried cracking one of the side windows or the one over the sink with some brief increase in temp (maybe 1or 2 degrees) which was immediately followed by a plummet of 5 degrees?

Verna

@Trailpixie, I did toy with the idea of placing a small USB Fan with a switch under the rear shelf after I added my decorative scrolling https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/2291/my-version-of-heat-vents-for-the-rear-shelf  to allow the heat to escape the rear fin area. I did purchase a simple USB Fan and a simple rocker on/off switch, but I never got around to actually installing it. 

In sub-freezing weather (21*F) last winter, I did place an O2 fan on the shelf to help spread the warm air throughout the T@B S Max. It worked well and Sunny Day and I were toasty all night. 

As a side note, after driving all day in my new T@B 400 Saturday, the temperature inside was 59*F. It only took an hour to get the temp up to 70*F using only electricity (no propane assist). Not bad for a larger space, in my mind. 

Trailpixie

So, Verna, it sounds like I’m not crazy to want to enhance the air flow with a fan or two. 

Verna

No, @Trailpixie, you’re not crazy at all. I really, really hate to be cold and if I needed to install a couple of fans to make me comfy, I would do it. 

You could put a few round vents in the back shelf to help the fans move the air. There’s other threads with photos of how others installed rectangle or round vents in the shelf. 

DougH

Probly a dumb question, but how hot do woodstove top fans have to get to start turning.  Would be sweet if, without any electricity, small stovetop fans would start to turn when the wood around the convectors gets up to 120F to move the air around. 

Edit:  Never mind, they work in the 185F - 660F range.  Not sure the wood gets that hot. 

BigGrover

Any update on the trailer brakes?  I have a Tekonsha wired controller and find I need to adjust it on every trip.

Trailpixie

BigGrover said:

Any update on the trailer brakes?  I have a Tekonsha wired controller and find I need to adjust it on every trip.

Wellllll.....

i have gotten them them a bit straightened out.  Sometimes they still pulse/oscillate/chatter as I come close to stopping, but it is never as violent as before, and never locks up like before.

what happened?

the simple answer is that they were calibrated too aggressively. They tell you to calibrate while warm, and I originally thought you could warm them by applying them for a minute or two.  No. You need to drive the camper for ten minutes or more to truly warm the brakes for calibration.  So when I had the problem it was set at 5, after I recalibrated when it was REALLY warmed-up, it ended up being calibrated to 3. 

It it is much better now.  As I approach a stop,  It isn’t as smooth as I like, but it is consistent and safe.  

My hypothesis on the lack of smoothness as it approaches a stop is that as the engine is ramping down to idle, the alternator’s voltage regulator is adjusting and for a moment it isn’t putting out as much power, thus the brakes don’t get enough power to actuate without interruption. BUT there are serious gaps in this hypothesis that I won’t go into here.  Suffice it to say that I have no idea why it isn’t always as smooth as I’d like as it approaches a stop.