surge protector?

melpeter

I've seen surge protector recommended. Where would a surge protector go? not outside in the rain. I don't understand where to use one.

atlasb

I hardwired ours in the alde compartment in or 400.  The display is mounted by the light switch near the closet.  This allows me to check what is going on.  Hardwired means to me it is protected inside and not outside.  I have the delay set to give extra time checking the Alde is off before the power comes on.

dragonsdofly

@melpeter, the surge protector is usually plugged into the pedestal/power source. Many of the more complex ones detect bad connections, reversed polarity, etc so you plug into the pedestal and check to make sure everything is wired correctly. After that check, you plug the t@b's power cord into the surge protector. These are exterior units, not the kind inside your house, and specifically made for the rigors of the environment. Some people will pull a large heavy-duty garbage bag over the pedestal and connection and bungie or tape it in place, but is not actually required. Just like the power cord of the t@b can take the cold, heat, rain and sun, this type of surge protector is made to do just that. Btw, we just experienced plugging into a pedestal this fall and found it to have reversed polarity. When we notified the office of the rv park, they insisted it was not possible to have reversed polarity. My husband drew an electrical diagram of how it was improperly wired and what would have to be done to correct the problem. We plugged into another properly wired pedestal eventually. That unit was worth all that we had paid for it and 10 times more because it saved us from possibly damaging all the electronics in the t@b, and anything ese we may have plugged in. I highly recommend you purchase one, learn how to use it, faithfully connect through it. -Denise

falcon1970

@melpeter
The term "surge protector" is rather misleading although these devices are usually referred to as such.  They are really much more than just protection from electrical surges.  They are properly called "electrical management systems (EMS)" and protect you from surges, reversed polarity, over/under voltage, brownouts, hot grounds, other mis-wired pedestal effects, and even more.
Look up an outfit called Progressive Industries for a good explanation of what they can do.  Progressive Industries is not the only game in town, others offer similar systems, but Progressive Industries is one of the major names.

melpeter

thanks! ok, next...so now I see all these different models at Progressive Industries. I'm clueless. I don't need 50 amps, right? So EMS-HW30C would be the one I need? oops. that one is hard wired. EMS-PT30X would be the one to buy?

rfuss928

melpeter

Those are the correct models. 

Although the hard wired unit requires (relatively simple) installation, it solves all the weather and theft concerns and is always in place, ready to protect.

Ours has been protecting SUNT@B for ~7 years.

Have fun!!

Bob

Sharon_is_SAM

@melpeter, yes the EMS PT30X is a portable system appropriate for your TaB.  It has all the advanced warnings to keep your electricals safe.  You will need to get a cable lock and chain it to the electrical pedestal.  They are fine to be left out in the rain, but we cover ours lightly.  While it is true that the interior installed units have a convenience and anti-theft advantage, the portables work just fine, too.  

Homebodyatheart

@melpeter this is my setup. I also have a 30 to 110 dog bone for plugging in at home, and carry a 30 to 50 end if I ever needed it. So far it’s never been used, but I’ve got it. This setup has worked great for me as I just wind the bike cable around the pole and lock it up. Never had problems in two years. 

melpeter

Thanks - these devices are much cheaper than the Progressive Industries ones, which cost $250. 

dsfdogs

There are different versions...the $250 model offers greater protection.

N7SHG_Ham

I have the Progressive Industries one, but I now wished I had of bought the Surge Guard brand, even more features including now a remote wireless display showing the data the unit sees. In addition it is only brand I believe that has load side protection too, important if something were to vibrate loose in the trailer. https://rvpower.southwire.com/products/surge-protection/

Bayliss

@N7SHG_Ham , I recently ordered the Progressive Industries (PI) EMS-HW30C (hardwired Electric Management System) surge protector and it is on its way to my house now.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UC6RSA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Although not "wireless," it is "remote" in the sense that it uses a data cable that looks like a standard phone line cable and can be located in a convenient location for monitoring the surge protector status.  I do not know if the PI device has a load side protection, but I didn't say anything about that feature being on the Surge Guard.  However, the PI EMS includes a bypass switch.  This is a very nice feature, because in the event the EMS is "fried" by an electrical power event, you can bypass the EMS until you are able to obtain and replace the destroyed circuit board (i.e., the EMS has a modular design for easy repair without having to purchase an entirely new unit.)  The bypass switch also avoids the need to manually re-connect the T@B power wires (i.e., you don't have to remove the wiring from the EMS to manually bypass it, which is apparently what you had to do before PI added a bypass switch.)  [A side benefit of the bypass switch is that if you are powering your T@B with a portable inverter type generator, such as a Honda 2000i, this switch will allow you to bypass the EMS system when you get an "open ground" error, but you will still have the benefit of the surge protector.]

Out of curiosity, which Surge Guard model are you specifically referring to?  If it is Model #35530  https://rvpower.southwire.com/products/hardwired-surge-protection/30a-hardwire-model-35530/  the remote monitor is sold separately and also uses a datacom connection.

The PI remote display automatically rotates through a limited amount of information, whereas you must manually scroll through 16 data items with the Surge Guard remote, using a small joystick, which is part of the monitor.  I do not know enough about the Surge Guard to assess how helpful or necessary the additional available data may be.

I am familiar with Surge Guard, but I did not realize that they have a hardwired unit until I read your post.  Although I am going to stick with the PI system, you have piqued my curiosity about the Surge Guard, so I plan to take a closer look at it.  Thank you for making me aware of it.  (Greg)

N7SHG_Ham

@Bayliss, I have the exact one you do, but if I had of known... NuCamp added mine (after I purchased it) at the factory, I think I should of got one of these other ones and hard wired it myself. Cam always be done later I suppose.

Obiru

I’ve been using this one and it works just fine. Reasonable price.
PROGRESSIVE INDUSTRIES SSP-30XL Surge Protector with Cover (30 Amp) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015Y9MX38/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_mPnCCbJVBDDH3

Sharon_is_SAM

@Obiru, the regular surge protectors do not protect against low voltage (bad for the TaB electronics), etc.  Compare it to the EMS version.

melpeter

Thanks! This is great reference. 

Obiru

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@Obiru, the regular surge protectors do not protect against low voltage (bad for the TaB electronics), etc.  Compare it to the EMS version.

Thanks. I guess I didn’t do my research well enough :(

Sharon_is_SAM

Some members get away with using a surge protector for years.  But, I have read so much about campgrounds, both public and private that do not keep up their electric pedestals, grounding, etc.  Better safe than sorry.

Obiru

Sharon_is_SAM said:

Some members get away with using a surge protector for years.  But, I have read so much about campgrounds, both public and private that do not keep up their electric pedestals, grounding, etc.  Better safe than sorry.

Totally agree. I'm new to the RV world and never knew there were issues with low voltage. I plan on taking 6 months to travel up to Newfoundland and back across Canada to the West coast and will be at many different sites. Don't want to worry about low/high voltage situations.

ScottG

Some members get away with using nothing for years. Plug up and live dangerously!  ;-)

jkjenn

I had mine Installed when I picked it up. It has saved my bacon 2x. Once during g a lightning storm in Moab and the other with poor campground wiring.

Some people test when they set up at the pedestal but that gives you one time monitoring and not ongoing.

ScottG

Kidding aside, I don't usually camp with hook-ups, but have considered the wisdom of adding a protective device to the arsenal for those occasions when I do.

Not being very familiar with these, I'm curious as to how one knows when one's bacon has been saved by such a unit. Do they retain records of catastrophic voltage events for later review? 

jkjenn

ScottG said:

Kidding aside, I don't usually camp with hook-ups, but have considered the wisdom of adding a protective device to the arsenal for those occasions when I do.

Not being very familiar with these, I'm curious as to how one knows when one's bacon has been saved by such a unit. Do they retain records of catastrophic voltage events for later review? 

The Progressive EMS prevents the power from hitting the converter and gives you an error message. When you decide the error, you have a pretty good idea what was intercepted.

Bayliss

Here's an expanded version of what @Sharon_is_SAM posted earlier, plus a quick guide to choosing the right product if you are considering a Progressive Industries device.  I only include it in the event someone is considering a hardwired EMS, which I decided to go with (i.e., the EMS-HW30C).  (Greg)

AstroTAB

Thanks for this info, we are set to receive our Tab400 soon and am looking for a surge protector. Based on my research and the comments in this thread, it is worthwhile to look for an EMS that will also protect against low voltage. I am looking at the Surge Guard 30A Model 34930.

It indicates that it protects against 'low and high voltage'. When I compare this to the Surge Guard 30A Model 34931, the only difference (other than Bluetooth capability) appears to be that it protects against 'low and high voltage' in addition to 'low and high frequency protection'. I would have thought that protection against 'low and high voltage' is the same as 'low and high frequency protection' - am I wrong or am I overthinking this? I'd prefer to go with model 34930 since it's a bit cheaper, but I also want to make sure it has everything we need. Thanks!

CharlieRN

I'm sure the EE's on the forum will correct me if I've screwed things up, but my layman's definition of voltage/frequency and the need for a protective device is as follows:

Voltage is electrical potential; higher (or lower) voltage pushes more (or fewer) electrons past a given point. Frequency on the other hand refers to the number of times that the current flow changes direction. In North America, it's 60 times per second, or 60 Hertz, though in much of the rest of the world the line frequency is 50Hz (and nominally 220 volts).

Voltage can vary quite a bit, and electrical devices are designed to operate without damage in limited range of voltages. If things get too far out of the normal operating voltage range, the device can be damaged. Frequency does not (or should not) really vary, and most electrical devices have far less tolerance for changes in frequency.

My conclusion is that it's prudent to have an EMS protective device that provides both voltage and frequency monitoring and protection. 

AstroTAB

Thanks, @CharlieRN - this was a really nice breakdown. As a newbie, it can be difficult to get up to speed on all these new terms. This helped!