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Is this Water Damage?

rkj__rkj__ Member Posts: 641
edited September 2019 in Modifications & Upgrades


It seems to have have gotten worse. There are no obvious issues with seals, but I’m not really sure what seam I should be looking at specifically. 

Trailer is a 2016 320 CS-S. 

I see there is a service bulletin post mentioning the area by the door, but it is not very descriptive at all. 

Also, I could not find an appropriate sub forum for this post. Feel free to move it if I missed a section that is better suited. 
2016 T@b 320 CS-S - 2018 GMC Sierra - St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,496
    That looks really weird.  Is it maybe remnants from a rug that stuck to the floor?  Something maybe got spilled there?  Doesn’t come off?
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    rkj__rkj__ Member Posts: 641
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    That looks really weird.  Is it maybe remnants from a rug that stuck to the floor?  Something maybe got spilled there?  Doesn’t come off?
    It does strike me as weird as well, given how course/bumpy the surface has become.  It cannot be wiped off. 
    2016 T@b 320 CS-S - 2018 GMC Sierra - St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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    dragonsdoflydragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,926
    @rkj__, almost looks like some kind of wood burrowing/eating insect is underneath. Good luck with troubleshooting this, and keep us updated.
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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    jgram2jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    Possibly chemical components used in plywood manufacturing bubbling up?
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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    TabberJohnTabberJohn Member Posts: 588
    It looks like some type of veneer bubbling concentrated at the door sill. 
    I can't tell clearly by the photo, but is it starting to bubble throughout that general area?
    2015 T@B Max S (White/Silver) -> 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L (turbo, AWD, factory tow)
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    tabiphiletabiphile Member Posts: 426
    That appears to be the adhesive that was applied over the plywood lifting/bubbling. Likely water sat in that area for long enough to cause it to separate from the wood. You should be able to remove it with a heat gun and scraper/putty knife. If the wood beneath is "OK" then don't worry about it. You might use a floor leveler product to smooth it it's really rough.
    If it is the top layer of the plywood it's still not a big deal, remove it, sand it and then seal it with an epoxy product. 
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,496
    I did not think that our floors had any plywood in them.  They have foam block, Azdel, and a vapor barrier, but no plywood.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    monamona Member Posts: 241
    Could something possibly have gotten spilled on the floor? I agree,that is really weird. 

    Jeannie
    2015 T@b S Max  white with silver trim. 2018 GC Trailhawk. 
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    N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 1,261
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    I did not think that our floors had any plywood in them.  They have foam block, Azdel, and a vapor barrier, but no plywood.
    2016 might be too old to have composite floors? I know for sure there is no plywood in my 2019 floor from what I saw when drilling a hole.
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,492
    edited September 2019
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    I did not think that our floors had any plywood in them.  They have foam block, Azdel, and a vapor barrier, but no plywood.
    I *thought* that 2016 was the last year that had a mix of the old luan and new composite floors, with some units having fully composite and others having the luan and styrofoam sandwich, that the full transition to Azdel-only was effective for the 2017 model year. But I could be wrong on the dates.

    Regardless, I’d send the pics to nuCamp and see if they have any suggestions.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,496
    edited September 2019
    This is from a December 2015 thread:

    From Scott Hubble - about the floor construction:

    "they used to be (vapor barrier, plywood, linoleum) when Dutchmen made them...

    when we (Little Guy) took over, we made the sidewalls and floors with aluminum frames & shot block insulation

    So the (floor) layers are (from the bottom up):  vapor barrier, 1/4" miranti or azdel, 1" aluminum framed floor with insulation/styro, 1/8" miranti or azdel and then linoleum.  

    we are very close to moving to a new 100% composite floor"

    Per Verna May 2017:

    "The floor is similar to the roof. Aluminum square struts spaced at regular intervals, with Azdel (non-wood composite) on top of and on the bottom of the insulation. The Azdel was used beginning with the 2016 models, with 1/8" plywood used in the flooring in the prior years. There is no aluminum in the flooring except for the aluminum struts."

    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,492
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    This is from a December 2015 thread:

    From Scott Hubble - about the floor construction:

    "they used to be (vapor barrier, plywood, linoleum) when Dutchmen made them...

    when we (Little Guy) took over, we made the sidewalls and floors with aluminum frames & shot block insulation

    So the (floor) layers are (from the bottom up):  vapor barrier, 1/4" miranti or azdel, 1" aluminum framed floor with insulation/styro, 1/8" miranti or azdel and then linoleum.  

    we are very close to moving to a new 100% composite floor"

    “Miranti” is a form of marine grade plywood. (It’s actually spelled meranti.) So at least as of 12/2015—more than halfway through the 2016 model year—some units were still being built with floors that had two layers of plywood in their construction.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,496
    Verna said the 2016 models were without wood.  I agree - send pics to nuCamp and see what’s up!
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,357
    My unit was manufactured in August 2015 and has the "sandwhich" floor without wood.  I just cut a 2" hole in the floor and will post a picture of the core that was removed later tonight.
    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    jgram2jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    It imight be interesting to scrape/cut a “whole” single lump off, see what the wood looks like underneath and cut into the lump to look at the inside. It doesn’t look like wood boring insect frass (excrement) in any photos I’ve found because it appears coated and it’s relatively big.
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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    rkj__rkj__ Member Posts: 641
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    Aliens...
    I don't even know what to do, if it is aliens causing this.  *Shrug*

    I'm not particularly interested in refinishing this blemish at the moment, and am more interested in what is happening, why, and if I can stop it from slowly growing. 
    2016 T@b 320 CS-S - 2018 GMC Sierra - St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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    TabberJohnTabberJohn Member Posts: 588
    edited September 2019
    First it would be helpful to confirm which type of flooring you have, A or B?
    A -1/8" Meranti (marine plywood) topped with linoleum
    B -1/8" Adzel (polypro/fiberglass composite) topped with linoleum
    I think you can determine this by inspecting the floor where it meets the wheel well under the bench seat. What's under the top linoleum layer?
    Secondly, is that additional blistering starting to appear away from the sill?


    2015 T@B Max S (White/Silver) -> 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L (turbo, AWD, factory tow)
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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,357
    Here is a cross section of my floor.  Seven different material layers.  The arrow is pointing to layer #2 just under the linoleum.  All layers equal approximately 1 3/4".  The black bottom layer is the moisture barrier that covers the entire underside of the floor. 


    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    rajamarrajamar Member Posts: 112
    @Tabaz
    Just curious - how is it you have such an illustrative cross section of the floor? 
    2016 T@B S - TV 2004 Toyota Sienna
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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,357
    I'm attempting to make the T@B a "Four Season" trailer by adding four Alde mini-radiators under the floor to heat the area with the fresh water and grey holding tanks (and related plumbing).  I had to drill two holes for the new Alde hoses. 
    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    rajamarrajamar Member Posts: 112
    Tabaz said:
    I'm attempting to make the T@B a "Four Season" trailer by adding four Alde mini-radiators under the floor to heat the area with the fresh water and grey holding tanks (and related plumbing).  I had to drill two holes for the new Alde hoses. 
    OK - I remember posts about your project. 
    2016 T@B S - TV 2004 Toyota Sienna
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,426
    @Tabaz, am I correct in assuming the whitish layers on either side of the foam block are the Adzel? If so, what are the two(?) layers between the upper Adzel and the vinyl finish floor?
    2015 T@B S

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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,357
    Here are the layers (8 actually - not 7).  #1 is the interior floor material for a 2016 Outback.  #2, 3 and 4 are fused together.  #5 and #7 are the same material (separated by the white foam #6).  #8 is the fabric vapor barrier on the underside of the floor.

    This is the other side of 2,3, and 4.  Clearly a wood product that adheres to the black side of #5.

    Cross view of 2, 3 and 4:

    Side of 2,3 and 4 that adheres to the underside of #1:

    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,357
    The underside of #1 has a "woodish" weave that adheres to the top of #2,3 and 4:


    Woodish weave under the linoleum (that now makes 9 layers!):


    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,426
    That's quite a a sandwich--thanks for the detailed info, @Tabaz!
    2015 T@B S

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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,496
    So is it the wood texture that has pushed up an imprint through the vinyl?
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    SueBCSueBC Member Posts: 70
    edited October 2019
    Didn't know they used Azdel also on the floor for more recent models (2017 and newer). That's great to know.
    SueBC
    British Columbia, Canada
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    EmyEmy Member Posts: 24
    I have a similar issue in my 2015, near the door.  Guessing water damage from the failing door seals?
    emily . northern ohio . 2015 320s . jeep wrangler
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    Emma62Emma62 Member Posts: 51
    During our last trip in our 2018 320 in Oct. we discovered a few soft spots in front of the kitchen cabinets and several places like what is pictured above that showed moisture in our moisture meter.  We also found moisture and the floor peeling up at the edge underneath the back seat.  

    We have not used the water (shower, toilet, sink, water heater) during this first year learning how to use all the other features of the trailer.  (We used a kitchen garbage bag with kitty litter for nighttime restroom needs.)

    We sent the pictures to our dealer and NuCamp and the trailer is at NuCamp now for repairs.  It's wonderful that there is a five year warranty on the floor in our trailers!  
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