2021 320BD -How long can I go boondocking for?

TNOutback · September 2020

@Addison I would add to this conversation that given your tow vehicle is a more recent model, it probably has a “smart alternator” on it that limits the amount of charge it can deliver to the camper battery via the 7 pin. (Especially those vehicles with regenerative braking.) The best you can hope for via the TV alternator is a maintenance charge for a fully-charged RV battery. It will not recharge a depleted RV battery while you drive. If you want your tow vehicle to recharge your camper batteries, then you will need to look into a DC to DC charging system separate from your vehicle’s wiring harness.

Addison · September 2020

I'm seeing lots of confusion here
I have factory solar I use the app I see it charging
We were in a tree in area but we still had all afternoon being charged, less than 50% but charging still. I would think I could run the little fridge for 3 days and that's it, but nope

VictoriaP · September 2020

jkjenn said:

There is something to be said for being confident that your food isn't going to be bad when you pull into the campground.

Oh, absolutely. I was simply hopeful that the Isotherm might be the perfect replacement for the Norcold in older models, and right now, that’s not really what I’m seeing. Interesting to see how it performs over time, and what kind of battery/solar capacity will be needed to run it for longer off-grid periods.

jkjenn · September 2020

TNOutback said:

@Addison I would add to this conversation that given your tow vehicle is a more recent model, it probably has a “smart alternator” on it that limits the amount of charge it can deliver to the camper battery via the 7 pin. (Especially those vehicles with regenerative braking.) The best you can hope for via the TV alternator is a maintenance charge for a fully-charged RV battery. It will not recharge a depleted RV battery while you drive. If you want your tow vehicle to recharge your camper batteries, then you will need to look into a DC to DC charging system separate from your vehicle’s wiring harness.

This is absolutely the case. There is no way I am going to do anything to mess with the electronics in my TV. It is loaded with them and I believe it is doing whatbitnis supposed to do to protect the battery needed to operate the Jeep properly. The factory solar makes the perfect supplement to the Jeep.

Addison said:

I'm seeing lots of confusion here
I have factory solar I use the app I see it charging
We were in a tree in area but we still had all afternoon being charged, less than 50% but charging still. I would think I could run the little fridge for 3 days and that's it, but nope

I am not sure I follow you here, @Addison

VictoriaP · September 2020

Addison said:

I'm seeing lots of confusion here
I have factory solar I use the app I see it charging
We were in a tree in area but we still had all afternoon being charged, less than 50% but charging still. I would think I could run the little fridge for 3 days and that's it, but nope

@Addison, @jkjenn spells out the issue pretty clearly here:

“4.40 amp with no solar will deplete you pretty quickly, even with 225ah battery capacity. A good solar yield from the factory solar on a 2021 T@b (105w panel) will get you around a 4ah charge (60 watts).”

So under near ideal conditions, your solar panel produces enough power to almost but not quite compensate for the drain the fridge produces, but that only works during the hours that you are getting maximum power out of your solar panel. Which realistically is only a few hours a day. At all other times of day, or when under trees or cloud cover, your solar panel cannot keep up with the battery drain from the fridge. Your battery probably drains slowly all throughout the day while getting at least some charge from the panel, and then very rapidly at night when it’s dark.

Assuming the numbers Jenn’s seeing are correct (and she has a ton of experience with this, so I’m betting they are), if you don’t either upgrade your battery to something with a LOT more capacity than the basic group 24 the dealer provides, or add additional solar panels, you’ll never be able to boondock for more than a couple of days before the battery runs out.

Denny16 · September 2020

I concur on your estimate with the stock 320 solar setup. On out TaB 400, two-way Isotherm fridge running, and 198-watts of solar on 225AmpHr battery, we gave gone three to four days, average sun, to cloudy bright, and the solar kept up with the fridge drain. That said, the fridge was set to approximately 40F, and only opened in AM and PM a few times. Ouside temp was in high 60s to low low 70s, ling summer days in June. This was just one test outing, so not conclusive data.
cheers

jkjenn · September 2020

@Denny16 the 320 uses a different fridge.

Denny16 · September 2020

OK, was not sure if they both had same model of the Isotherm fridge, thanks. But the 400 is still using a compressor 2-way fridge, so power requirements should be similar? Isn’t the new 2021 320:%using an Isotherm fridge? I know the older units had a three way fridge.

cheers

jkjenn · September 2020

Denny16 said:

OK, was not sure if they both had same model of the Isotherm fridge, thanks. But the 400 is still using a compressor 2-way fridge, so power requirements should be similar? Isn’t the new 2021 320:%using an Isotherm fridge? I know the older units had a three way fridge.
cheers

The 320 is using an Isotherm. Perhaps the 400 is using one, too? The 320 uses the Cruise Elegance 65.

Denny16 · September 2020

OK, nice fridge, one of the Marine versions, which will take the new Isotherm Smart Energy kit.

The current TaB 400 is using a Isotherm CR65EL.

Cheers

jkjenn · September 2020

Denny16 said:

OK, nice fridge, one of the Marine versions, which will take the new Isotherm Smart Energy kit.
The current TaB 400 is using a Isotherm CR65EL.
Cheers

I have the Smart Energy Kit installed. The jurynis still out. I am not seeing a huge difference in early testing.

mntrails · September 2020

@jkjenn, while you have your fuse buddy hooked up, would you consider removing the fuse for each subsystem in the converter one at a time and note the difference in current? It would be interesting to see if the majority of your parasitic 4.4A draw is really from the fridge, something else or a combination.

For reference, I think the fuses are:
1) Fan
2) Fridge
3) Lights/Radio/TV
4) Pump LP Det.
5) Alde
6) Battery Charging

jkjenn · September 2020

mntrails said:

@jkjenn, while you have your fuse buddy hooked up, would you consider removing the fuse for each subsystem in the converter one at a time and note the difference in current? It would be interesting to see if the majority of your parasitic 4.4A draw is really from the fridge, something else or a combination.

For reference, I think the fuses are:
1) Fan
2) Fridge
3) Lights/Radio/TV
4) Pump LP Det.
5) Alde
6) Battery Charging

I will do that later this fall. To be honest, I am in the middle of prepping for my trip, so I don't have time to that right now.

I did, however, do it enough to determine that the 20 amp fuse in the fourth position from the top was the fridge and that was the source of the bulk of the draw. It draws between --4.1 to -4.5, the latter being when you open the door. The Victron BMV confirmed the Fuse Buddy findings.

As you can see from the BMV, the phantom power draw drops to less than 1 ah when I pulled the fuse for the fridge altogether.

If you are using a trickle charger, it might make sense to pull the fuse for the fridge while the batteries are on the charger.

(Photos edited for resizing.)

ScottG · September 2020

Addison said:

I'm seeing lots of confusion here
I have factory solar I use the app I see it charging
We were in a tree in area but we still had all afternoon being charged, less than 50% but charging still. I would think I could run the little fridge for 3 days and that's it, but nope

@Addison, I think I inadvertently derailed your discussion by raising the fridge question. Sorry...

Charging is relative when it comes to solar. Over the weekend I described previously my controller was "charging" the whole time, but the output was so low I was never able to fully top up the battery. One limitation of solar--particularly with older model panels like mine--is that any bit of shade on the panel will seriously cut its output. When you saw that your panel was charging, did you happen to note the voltage and amperage coming from the panels?

Not much additional help, I know. Every circumstance is different and I can't say with any certainty if your issue is lack of sun, a failing battery, or just high power draw from the 12V fridge.

MarkAl · September 2020

Watching the SmartShunt power I see the Isotherm cycling On and Off from the power usage display so I'm thinking there's a problem with this Fusebuddy interpretation ... Are you sure the refrigerator was steady state? If it was still cooling down I could see this reading.

jkjenn · September 2020

MarkAl said:

Watching the SmartShunt power I see the Isotherm cycling On and Off from the power usage display so I'm thinking there's a problem with this Fusebuddy interpretation ... Are you sure the refrigerator was steady state? If it was still cooling down I could see this reading.

What the Fuse Buddy is showing is consistent with what I have been observing with my Victron BMV all summer.

It is possible that it has had its challenge with maintaining steady state due to the very hot summer this year. I should have a better idea when I camp in the Tetons, soon. 😁

Also, if you compare what I am seeing when I pull the fuse for the fridge vs. When the fuse is in place, it validates what the Fuse Buddy is showing.

Fuse in

Fuse out

(Edited for photo resizing.)

jkjenn · September 2020

Also, I read in a Four Wheel Campers forum that real life readings are much higher than 275w per 24hrs...more like 400w.

Olena · September 2020

I'm looking for some boondocking guidance in this thread too...Right now I don't have a fridge in my T@B (I built a slide out for a Yeti in place of the fridge) and I camped without any shore power for three months solid. I have a 120W Zamp suitcase connected to the basic dealer battery and had no issues at all - the battery reading never dipped below 12.5. The Fantastic fan is the biggest energy hog and I found I could only use it if the sun was shining. Other than that, the only power used is for a USB fan, USB lights, USB charging the IPad, the water pump (I don't have the Alde system) and any parasitic draw from the propane detector and Sea Level monitor. I don't currently have a battery monitor, but the Zamp has a charge controller where I can see battery level.

Now the questions! I am looking to upgrade to a 2021 T@B 320 and am looking forward to having the fridge, but I am afraid it is going to become the elephant in the teardrop.

Anyway, I will put the info in bullet points to keep it organized:

- I will have the Alde in the new T@B. Does it draw more power than the water pump (I know it is propane heating)?

- I use my IPad and USB speakers for entertainment. Hopefully I can get Nucamp to omit the Jenson system, so no power draw from that.

- The Fantastic fan will be upgraded to the more efficient model 7350.

- I am hoping to continue to use my Zamp suitcase (hopefully someone can install a plug in - I love the Zamp plug on the 2017 T@B) and am looking into the following battery: Enerwatt WPL24 12V lithium at 88Ah. I want to keep the battery weight as light as possible and don't want to get into the two 6V battery set up.

- Lastly, I will keep my Yeti!

What do you all think? Can I enjoy the new fridge?

Olena · September 2020

I found the solar sidewall plug on the Zamp site. Now I am in business with my suitcase.

Forgot to mention I also have a Goal Zero Yeti 400 lithium for other plug in stuff if needed.

The Enerwatt lithium also comes in a group 31 with 110 Ah.

Looking forward to some opinions.

jkjenn · September 2020

Olena said:

I found the solar sidewall plug on the Zamp site. Now I am in business with my suitcase.

Forgot to mention I also have a Goal Zero Yeti 400 lithium for other plug in stuff if needed.

The Enerwatt lithium also comes in a group 31 with 110 Ah.

Looking forward to some opinions.

I think a 110 ah luthium with a 120v solar array will probably be just under what you need. I would probably go with a bigger battery. If yoy are planning to do long term boondock8ng, I would probably up the solar to 200w.

The Alde uses far less power than the pump.

I did some more testing of the fridge, today, as it is 100% cloudy, today and I am getting readings around 3.5ah from the fridge, so, I do think the hot, sunny weather has impacted my readings.

We aren't used to the number of sunny days we have seen this year in Western PA!

Denny16 · September 2020

The Alde draws very little, and other than powering its cinteol boards, the Alde circulation pu,p,is,the other DC load, which as previously stated is less than the water pump and is also an on-demand system when the cabin temp drops below the set value on the control panel.
cheers

pthomas745 · September 2020

I don't understand the fan being described as an "energy hog." You have a completely full battery by sundown, an efficient fridge, a Goal zero for all your other toys, and a solar panel that will bring you back up to charge the next day. But, three or four hours of the fan at night might cost you less than 10 amp hours of your battery, so you don't run it for your own comfort? I don't get it.........you paid a lot of money for this system...use it!

MarkAl · September 2020

Ah, I think I've only been camping at most in 70s and my smart shunt exams have been morning or evening when I'm by the trailer and it usually is cool at night in the mountains - but I'll rethink my power needs after hearing this. Fortunately when it's hot there's probably good solar available so it's probably okay keeping the batteries charged. Though this is another reason that dealers ought to inform buyers if they expect to be dry camping, go with 100 AH usable capacity with the new refrigerators.

The fan at full power pulls slightly over 3 amps and not much less at position 2. Over 4 hours that's 12 A*H on a Group 24/7 battery that is significant. I just installed the PWM mod, I now get "enough" airflow with about 1 amp, better but something to be aware of if running off the battery.

pthomas745 · September 2020

What do you have that shows the Fan using 3 amps?

Olena · September 2020

Whether the Fantastic Fan is considered an energy hog or not, I find it too loud at night to sleep. I'm camping in the forest, usually in a radio-free and non-electrical campground and I want to hear the crickets, the wind and whatever else crackles in the leaves at night. It's a rare pleasure to experience that in our ever increasing technological world. I don't mind boiling a bit at night for that silence. That said, I live in Ontario where we might only have a dozen or so really hot nights over the summer.....

Thanks for the battery advice. I will definitely be going with the 110 Ah lithium for my Zamp suitcase. I will be hanging on to my Yeti though!

MarkAl · September 2020

@pthomas745 Blast, I can't check it now but I was watching the smartshunt and changing the fan from 1-2-3. There wasn't much difference in current between 2 and 3 and even 1 was high but don't remember the number. With the PWM, max speed has the same current but what was 1 and 2 are more efficient since the slower speed's energy is not lost in the speed select resistor. As @Olena points out it is noisier also, the PWM allows a much quieter setting though you don't move as much air.

jkjenn · September 2020

This is where the 10 speed shines....you can run it at lower speeds and it draws less energy and is ery quiet.

pthomas745 · September 2020

@MarkAl I have the PWM mod, too. I just asked because most of the Fan readings I've seen here only go up to 2 or so, so three would seem a lot.

trimtab · September 2020

Boondocking? How long? What about your black water dump?

Verna · September 2020

With boondocking, @trimtab, with the black tank, you have only two choices. Pack up the T@B and find a dump station, or empty the black tank into a portable tank and take the portable tank to a dump station.

There are a few choices for portable tanks. A 6 gallon tank without wheels can be lifted into your tow vehicle. A larger 25 gallon Blue Boy can be pulled behind your tow vehicle at 5 mph or less to a close RV dump site, but there’s not necessarily a dump station close enough for that.

But, the towable portable tanks with wheels must have rubber inflatable tires to use them on Federal Long Term Visitor Areas (LTVA), as the plastic wheels tend to break and you may spill the contents. If you have a spill, you are responsible for the EPA cleanup fees.

As you know, black tank contents can never, ever be dumped anywhere except in an approved dump site.

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2021 320BD -How long can I go boondocking for?

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