Recommended AGM battery capacity for boondocking

Denny16 · January 2021

I think Lithium battery’s biggest advantage, especially for boondocking, is you can get 85 to 90 amps of energy out of a 100 amp battery, whereas a lead acid 100mp battery only gives you around 50amps, so more bang per amp hr rating. Next is the weight, which would be an issue on a smaller TaB like the 320.

On average Lithium is 40% lighter, and have a smaller footprint. So again, you can carry more am hr batteries in the same and weight compared to larger/heavier traditional lead acid batteries. Also LiFEPO4 lithium batteries are more environmentally friendly.

For smaller RVs like the TaBs (both 320/400) Lithium batteries make more sense overall, especially for boondocking. It would be nice, if nüCamp offered factory Lithium batteries as either part of the standard package, or at least as an option. Our TaB400 came with a new, large single 200 amp AGM battery, which we plan to replace with 300 amps of lithium when it comes time to replace this battery. Had we had a choice, it would have been LiFEPO4 lithium from the start.
cheers

Oyaji · January 2021

johnfconway said:

Oyaji said:

Yup. An astrophotographer, but still learning every clear night--which are few and far between in Central Illinois. https://www.flickr.com/photos/john_myers/albums/72157708237944024 . New Mexico Rules!

This may partly explain why we've been seeing so many T@Bs going by the back of our property on Hwy. 90 (road into Silver City, NM off of I-10 coming from west). It can't just be that our eyes are more attuned to shape and features.
If it's too cold up in the 4 corners area, we have an International Dark-Sky Sanctuary site in the Gila National Forest named "Cosmic Campground". https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/gila/recarea/?recid=82479
https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/sanctuaries/cosmiccampground/
It's typically warmer down here in SW New Mexico. The not so mentioned quality about this site is availability of top-notch day hiking close by. Mineral Creek is a show to not miss https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/new-mexico/mineral-creek-trail, as is "The Catwalk" https://www.newmexico.org/places-to-visit/regions/southwest/catwalk/

My two sites thus far have been the Cosmic Campground and the Datil Well Campground. They both have pros and cons. Cosmic is nice but is 2000 ft. lower elevation than Datil and 90 miles further from Illinois. However, it is problematic at Datil finding a campsite adjacent to a field with a clear view to the horizon; also, the campsites are cordoned off with giant boulders so you have to carry your gear into the field. At Cosmic, you are more likely to find fellow astro-buffs, too, but a lot of people go out there just to camp for free--but fewer than Datil Well. And one minor irritant at Cosmic is the ginormous copper mine about 50 miles away in Morenci, AZ, which throws off a considerable amount of skyglow to the SW under certain high cloud or dust conditions. So, on my next trip, I'll stop at Datil and see if I can find an appropriate site, and if not, I'll head out to the Cosmic Campground. New Mexico rocks!

Oyaji · January 2021

Marceline said:

Oyaji said:

Wow. Lots to ponder here. But the bottom line is that I'm just gonna have to pick a system, try it out and see if it's sufficient. I'm thinking 100 aH AGM battery from a reputable (and hopefully not Chinese) manufacturer, with my mystery battery as a backup.

100aH AGM battery = about 50aH useable power. That's less than 2 days worth of power with zero recharging. This is why it's so important to guesstimate what your solar will generate. If you don't want to invest in 100aH of capacity (100aH lithium or 200aH conventional) you might want to consider getting a generator. Another alternative is to give up on using the refrigerator.

No refrigerator? Heresy!

You can't do astrophotography without plenty of cold beer, and I can't camp without cooking hamburgers and bacon/eggs, eating cheese, enjoying cold soda pop, etc.

And I confess, I have thought about a generator in case I want to go to the desert in the summer and run the AC--but then I have to worry about gasoline, and I'm trying to simplify, not complicate, my life.

Decisions, decisions.

Denny16 · January 2021

Going back to the original question on size of AGM battery for boondocking with a compressor fridge and Alde use, we have a 200 amp AGM battery in our TaB, and it only discharged down 35% after using it for two days and two nights boondocking, which 194 watt solar recharging during the day, and the panels were never a tree in partial shade. You need at least 100 to 140 amps of useable power for four or five days, and that would take a 200 to 225 amp AGM battery to get.

That said, 200 amps of AGM weigh almost 200 lbs, which is the downside. On a 320 you could break this down with two 100 amp AGM 12 VDC batteries in parallel configuration to get 200 amps. However, a 125 amp lithium would give you the same net power in a smaller and lighter package. If I was replacing a small lead acid battery, I would be looking at Lithium LiFEPO4 battery instead of n AGM, especially for a TaB320.
cheers

Oyaji · January 2021

Speaking of starting a firestorm, there's a thread in this forum stating that it's no big deal to discharge your AGM battery down to 20%. What think y'all of that? https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/9940/agm-battery-depth-of-discharge-myth-busted

Denny16 · January 2021

I have read that, but most manufacturers recommendations I have seen, and the one from the maker of my AGM (Interstate) states to try and keep the discharge down to 40 to 35% and no lower than 30%. So I feel comfortable going down to 40%. The original nüCamp AGM 240amp battery failed after about 18 months. It had been discharged way down numerous times below 40% by the original owner during a trip from Southern California to Pacific Northwest, and extended camping in Northern California and Oregon area.

That said, whilst our TaB was in the shop during the summer (4-moths inside), our new battery went down to around 20% per the Victron battery monitor history, and seems fine, it recharged right back up. Probably reduced its charge/discharge life a bit, but only time will tell.
cheers

VictoriaP · January 2021

@Oyaji Propane generators do exist, and might be a good option if you aren’t equipped to or don’t want to carry gas cans. They’re a little less efficient, but it’s still a viable alternative. I bought a tiny 900 watt one that runs off either the 1 lb green camping containers or can be hooked up to a standard 20 lb tank. It won’t run the air conditioner, of course, but it’s plenty to charge the battery if solar isn’t sufficient. One thing not everyone is aware of though is that during wildfire season, generators are frequently banned, so you may not be able to use them.

Marceline · January 2021

Oyaji said:

No refrigerator? Heresy! You can't do astrophotography without plenty of cold beer, and I can't camp without cooking hamburgers and bacon/eggs, eating cheese, enjoying cold soda pop, etc.

Oh I would never suggest that you go without cold beer or bacon & eggs. Heaven forbid! You're going to struggle the most with power in the early spring and late fall when the days are short and the stock solar panel won't be able to keep up with consumption. But ambient temps should also be pretty cool at that time of year, so it would be pretty easy to keep a cooler cold. Keep the cooler outside under packing blankets during the day and in the car with the windows cracked at night and you could probably go 4-5 days without having to replenish the ice. This is what I did before I bought a better battery.

Sharon_is_SAM · January 2021

@Oyaji - I thank @rh5555 for that thread. It added perspective. As AirBoss says “Wear it out!” Who are we saving it for? So, yes, discharge to 80% reduces the number of times that you can fully recharge by 6%, but then, you don’t need to recharge as often. I think a lot of TaB owners want to optimally maintain their TaB and that carries over to optimizing battery life. I know our recreational camping reality is such that it is unlikely that we will use up our battery life.

Oyaji · January 2021

kbdigitiqe said:

@Oyaji Don’t want to start a firestorm here, but I’m consistently intrigued by the intense.. ahem ... frugality of the majority of members on this forum.

I mean Tabs are not cheap campers. Y’all just paid $25k+ for a teardrop right? Likely have a $30k+ tow vehicle? $1,000 more on a good Li setup and you can literally disregard every other post in this thread and on this entire forum about how to be constantly obsessed over how much battery this and that uses.

Because like you, we only Boondock, we made the switch to Lithium and we haven’t thought about our battery since, it just works all the time and has never come close to draining on a 5-7 day trip, with a little sun it’s pretty much infinite.

Now we just camp, wherever we want... which was the point of the whole thing anyway.

It wasn't so much the cost of Li which concerned me (I could buy five 100aH Battleborns for the price of a 5 inch Takahashi refractor telescope) but their cold-weather issues and whether they make attractive targets for thieves. Perusing the Battleborn site has allayed my fears about cold weather issues. Now I have only to figure out how to put a padlock on the battery/propane compartment, and a Battleborn Li battery is a pretty compelling choice--mainly because of its user friendly weight.

NovaTab · January 2021

if you get a $700 Li battery put it under the bed, not in the tub

Marceline · January 2021

Oyaji said:

It wasn't so much the cost of Li which concerned me (I could buy five 100aH Battleborns for the price of a 5 inch Takahashi refractor telescope) but their cold-weather issues and whether they make attractive targets for thieves. Perusing the Battleborn site has allayed my fears about cold weather issues. Now I have only to figure out how to put a padlock on the battery/propane compartment, and a Battleborn Li battery is a pretty compelling choice--mainly because of its user friendly weight.

There's a lot of debate about the advisability of locking up the front tub because of the propane. Some people claim it's illegal. I don't know. I did figure out a way to lock the battery. I can share via DM.

Denny16 · January 2021

Locking the propane storage box is not so much illegal (it is against fire regulations in some states), but steer an unsafe practice. In case of a fire, yiu need to have quick access to the tank to shut it off.

It wouldn’t take much to make a locking lid or tray over the battery side of the tongue box to secure the battery from sight and theft, whilst still allowing fast access to the propane tank.

Not sure how the fit would be, but battery could also be inside the new AllPro side boxes thst are now available to go on the Boondock rack. These boxes could be locked, as they were on early 20th century automobiles.

Cheers

MuttonChops · January 2021

Oyaji said:

MuttonChops said:
. . . deleted from this post . . .

2. I'm gonna keep Alde on at night at about 65 degrees. That's one of the main reasons I bought this trailer--I'm tired of cold nights in the back of my Ford Transit van . . .

LOL, am going off-topic here

Have recently moved my 'home' to an apartment that has electric only heat, in a Cold Climate. One of those noisy energy expensive Cadet ductless units, that is a lot like the non-Adle trailer heaters, after a life time of living in homes with natural gas ducted heat . . .

Every time it turns on my mind's eye sees $$$ flying out of the window.
So I'm wearing sweaters all day long.

Well due to C-19 risks decided to cancel the 2021 SnowBird adventure to AZ.
Instead will do a week or two at Washington State parks . . rain is not desert sun . .

Cannot express how happy I am knowing those campground stops will be at 30-Amp Electric Sites . . . Adle is going to be set to 70+F all-day-long

Olena · January 2021

Just piping in about lighting. I have Goal Zero USB/solar rechargeable crush lights in the T@B and love them. The built in lighting (in my 2017 T@B anyway) is so horrible! It is that bright blue LED lighting that lights up the inside of the camper like a Walmart. I never turn on the interior built in lights unless I have to look for something.

VictoriaP · January 2021

@olena You can always use color correcting photo gel filters, cut to fit, to quickly and easily covert most of your built in lights to a warmer tone. I used the kind labeled “full CTO”.

@Oyaji Battleborn is a great brand and has the longest warranty, but is also the most expensive option. If cost is at all a concern, there are a number of other reliable LiFePo4 options out there that are less expensive and might be worth looking into. Several members here have used the Lion Energy brand that periodically is available from Costco, several on the Facebook groups bought Torque Power brand (with built in Bluetooth) last year. Haven’t heard complaints about either so far.

druthazer · January 2021

@Denny16. A cheap alternative to bigger better batteries in my 2017 320s is to carry a Lion solar generator battery ~ and an inexpensive portable panel. I have 2 X 100w panels installed with 2 X flooded batteries for all my normal boondocking. Just to be sure and for backup, For our 2 CPAP machines, I have a 300wh solar generator (Lion battery) and 100 w portable solar panel. However normal boondocking parked in full sun, our 2 standard size 24 flooded batteries have plenty of power and are fully recharged every day. We are conservative on power use and run fridge on gas except while towing. The advantage of 2 X 100 w panels installed is they also power the 3way fridge while driving which is a power hog.

Simple, less expensive option that has worked well for us so far. Happy Camping. Bob & Dianne.

Denny16 · January 2021

Yes, the small Goal Zero type battery generators can be quite handy. We have a Goal Zero 150 unit we carry for powering outside lights and emergency lighting in case of a power failure.
Looking to upgrade to a 300 or 500 watt unit someday.
cheers

Bclarke · February 2021

Thanks for all of the information.. I have enjoyed reading all of the excellent comments and advice. With our goal of boondocking I do feel the need for extra battery support even if for just a few days at a time. We have built in solar (2021 TaB 320 Boondock) but still.. I am now simply debating with myself between waiting to try things out or purchasing a second battery... although there isn’t room in the front box unless I stack them. For grins here is our current battery.

ColoradoSun · February 2021

Bclarke If you don't already have a battery monitor, get one. Then try out your current set up with some short 1-2 night boondocking trips. You'll know lots more about its capacity after that.

Marceline · February 2021

@Bclarke
Assuming this is your battery (it's hard to read the label), it is rated at 64aH. With miserly fridge use it might last about 24 hours with zero recharge from solar (or generator). This assumes about 30aH consumption per day, drawing battery down to 50%. If you stick with this battery you'll have to get a handle on how much power your solar is going to produce, and keep an eye on the state-of-charge so you don't draw down the battery too far and wreck it.

Bclarke · February 2021

Thanks @Marceline. Yes that I believe is my battery.. I do think that I would like to upgrade now so that I don’t have to worry. I do have a monitor as well and while I need to play a bit unfortunately (or fortunately depending on perspective) I will be jumping off the deep end very early this spring with a planned trip to MT and several 2 night boondocks. I have an off grid cabin with all solar so while not the same, I do get the need to rethink how one uses power. My concern is that I wont have much time to really test this out. Clearly it is the standard entry battery. Because I try to avoid hookups I will need to upgrade. Sounds like a worthy investment to the lithium. Less worry, more sleep. As always I sincerely appreciate your suggestions! Hey.. if nothing else I will provide great entertainment to all of you as I stumble along. Ha!

Marceline · February 2021

Bclarke said:

Thanks @Marceline. Yes that I believe is my battery.. I do think that I would like to upgrade now so that I don’t have to worry. I do have a monitor as well and while I need to play a bit unfortunately (or fortunately depending on perspective) I will be jumping off the deep end very early this spring with a planned trip to MT and several 2 night boondocks. I have an off grid cabin with all solar so while not the same, I do get the need to rethink how one uses power. My concern is that I wont have much time to really test this out. Clearly it is the standard entry battery. Because I try to avoid hookups I will need to upgrade. Sounds like a worthy investment to the lithium. Less worry, more sleep. As always I sincerely appreciate your suggestions! Hey.. if nothing else I will provide great entertainment to all of you as I stumble along. Ha!

I made do with a smaller battery than that (55aH AGM) for a couple of years before I bought my current battery. It's certainly possible if you have good sun. But you do have to be very careful about power use and most will go to the fridge - unless you just use a cooler (this is what I did during winter months).

Mooree · March 2022

I bought 4 RV batteries for Boondocking from Battle Born for a solar project, these batteries are amazing and will work well with any acid. And last 3000 cycles or more. I run 400 to 800 watts all night with no problems. The battery charges very quickly even when it's cloudy. Additionally, it can supply between 14.4 and 14.6 volts, which is enough power to run most RV devices. I can totally use this battery as a backup power source because it is so versatile and reliable.

ColoradoJon · March 2022

kbdigitiqe said:

Yah, my point was once we spent the $1000 on Lithium, we haven’t cared since if the sun comes out because it almost doesn’t matter anymore, battery life is virtually a non issue.

My second point was, especially if all you do is Boondock, $1000 is not even half of the sales tax alone on the brand new 2021 Tab 320 they just bought.

More to the point - you don't need to spend $1000 on Lithium to do that. I did the same thing with a $230 dual 6V flooded lead acid setup. I could have spent the money on Lithium. I could also toss $1000 into the campfire. But why?

Denny16 · March 2022

Going to lithium makes sense, if battery space is limited and you need more battery capacity than using AGMs would provide. We are having no issue going for three to four days without hookups with our 200 AH AGM battery, with solar charging replacing the night time draw from the DC fridge.

If I needed more amp hrs of DC energy, than getting two 100 amp lithium batteries in the same space would be easier than trying to add a second big AGM, and the battery weight would be less also.

So which size and type of batteries you choose, comes down to your camping energy requirements, and the best way to provide that energy.
Cheers

NovaTab · March 2022

You can fit two 6V in tongue box and two under the seat behind the toilet, so that's 4 6 volts.
I imagine U can put two more under the seat on the right side.

BywaysNW · March 2022

Has anyone tried the Firefly Oasis battery? Came across this recent comment on an RV site: "IMHO. . .the two best AGM style batteries that come in a group 31 100amp hour case are the Odyssey TPL thin plate pure lead design and the carbon foam design of the Oasis Firefly battery. Both are exceptional batteries . . ." It's probably overkill for a TAB 320 Boondock, right?

MarkAl · March 2022

AGM's should not be put inside the camper due to hydrogen produced during use.

pthomas745 · March 2022

AGM's are used in the 400's with appropriately vented boxes.

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