2021 400 or 320?

Addison

I cant make my mind up, i currently have a tag xl, buying either a new 320 or 400, when this is all over. Im 6 foot 3
We are still working so only would be weekend trips, 5 months or the year
What would you do?

bergger

In my opinion it just depends on what your wants/needs are and what your tow vehicle is.   I'm 6'2" and the 320 was just too low in ceiling height for me to be comfortable and it felt confining to us.  Also not having a dedicated bed and dinette was an issue with the 320.  We just recently took delivery of a 2021 400 and though we have not been able to camp in it yet we could not be happier.   Yes the 400 is a bit larger but when we trailer camp it's what we want.  We did not want something in between a tag and a 400.  When trailer camping we want plenty of room and to be very comfortable.  If we want to move quickly and go to more extreme off road areas we just leave the trailer behind and camp out of the truck, or backpack.  

VictoriaP

Have you been in either one yet?...and by “in”, I mean spent at least an hour in there, going through the motions of what it would be like to use the kitchen, getting in the shower, laying down on the bed? This is critical in making a decision you won’t regret a year after buying.

At 6’3”, you’re potentially going to be very annoyed by the low roof in the 320, and unable to fully stretch out on the bed. At 5’6”, it’s fine for me, but taller friends who’ve spent even 15-20 minutes in there have said flat out it wouldn’t work for them, even those who otherwise love the features. For some people, it just isn’t a good fit; for others, the compromises are worth it. Only you can decide what you’re willing to put up with.

That said: at just a few weekend trips a year, if you decide you can live with the height issue, I think the 320 is a good compromise between cost and livability. I’ll personally upgrade from mine once I get to the point that I’m getting into longer trips of multiple weeks at a time...if I were spending more time in the rig, I’d like a bigger fridge, more counter space, bigger bathroom, and separate eating/workspace from the bed, which are all advantages of the 400.

Edit: And since we’re taking the 2021 models, the 320 has a cassette toilet, while the 400 has a more typical black tank. For some folks, this is no problem, for others, either option could be a dealbreaker. Worth doing the research to know how you feel about that issue.

Addison

Hi yes i love the idea of the cassette toilet for sure, but it isnt a deal breaker. 
 I  wont be showering in the 320 i will have to sit to pee! 
My tow vehicle is a 2017 honda ridgeline

Sharon_is_SAM

If I knew that I was going to be a casual user, I would buy a used 320 and move up to a 400 when you know you will be using it more.  If you are set on buying new, I would vote for a 400.  More comfortable for your height.

Addison

Trading in my 2017 t@g, so yeah going new

jkjenn

I used to feel like there was such an upgrade in luxury between the 320 and 400 but with the upgrades of the 2021 320, I no longer feel that way.

The 320 is so easy to fit in really small sites. The 400 isn't that much bigger, but there are some sites you might not be able to take with a 400 that you can with a 320.

If at all possible, spend some time sitting and walking in both. Your height is probably  less of an issue than your tolerance for small spaces. If you have been OK in a T@g, my guess is that you will be OK in a 320. If you would like to spend a lot more time inside of the trailer, a 400 might be a better option. If you anticipate still mostly sleeping inside and still spending most of the time outside, the 320 will probably be just fine for you.

Lastly, you will get more storage with a 400, but most of us make do with what we get in the 320 and appreciate the help keeping us packing light.

ontheroad

@Addison ..So I'll chime in since we also will be upgrading from our t@g max xl...having done a 7 week trip in our trailer...what were we missing...a place to stand up and change...a place for middle of the night potty runs..some indoor clothing storage..and being able to still make a morning coffee if it's too cold outside.. love the clamshell...so it will be the T@B CS-S for us...will finalize the extra wants hopefully at uCamp20...Frank is 5'10"...and I'm 5'5"..will certainly miss the bigger bed of the T@G max xl...love cooking outside and yes we'll be getting the microwave!

Denny16

Addison said:

Hi yes i love the idea of the cassette toilet for sure, but it isnt a deal breaker. 
 I  wont be showering in the 320 i will have to sit to pee! 
My tow vehicle is a 2017 honda ridgeline

A couple of points to consider, with your decision.
Is your 2017 Honda Ridgeline a 2WD or All 0/4WD drive model?  2WD 3500 lbs max tow.
TaB 400 is at GVW 3500 lbs  and around 2800 lbs dry, with a 400-450 lbs tongue weight, which will subtract from the trucks max load.

Does you Honda have a 4-Pin or 7-Pin with 12 VDC circuit?  
A TaB 400 needs the 7-pin and you need a brake controller, not an option, somifmyiumhave factory tow package you should be set here.

The closer you max out your TV, the less enjoyable towing a bigger trailer like the TaB 400 is.
cheers

Addison

Its AWD, 7 pin, an d the 2021 has a tongue weight of 380! Its lower 

Denny16

Yes, but that is 380 lbs dry, not loads or water in the tanks, so a loaded TaB 400 is going to be closer to 400+ lbs.  But your AWD with the OEM Towing Packagemshould be more than enough to handle it.  
Cheers

jameskuzman

The first thing to work out is whether or not your tow vehicle can pull either or both. 

Most AWD Ridgelines are rated to tow 5,000 pounds, have a tongue weight capacity of 600 pounds, and a payload capacity of between 1400 - 1500 pounds. You'll want to verify the information applicable to your specific vehicle per Honda and the placard on the inside of the driver's door. If you're in doubt as to how the whole payload equation works, do a bit of Google homework; hashing that all out here would make for a long reply and risk derailing your thread altogehter :-) Suffice it to say that all of these figures are imporant and should not be exceeded. 

Assuming the Ridgeline and both the 320 and 400 would play nicely if they got hitched, I agree with some of the initial replies that suggest you spend some time in both campers. At 6'3", I would anticipate the 320 feeling cramped for you. It's a lovely trailer to be sure, but with an interior height of 5'9" at the center, you will be hunched over every time stand up. If you plan to use the shower, you'll be doing so sitting down. The interior height of the 400 is 6'7", so you can at least stand up fully in the main part of the trailer and might even be able to stand up straight in the shower (it'll be a close call). The bed in the non-solo version of the 400 is 79" (6'7") long, so you should be ok there. 

Disclosure up front: We have a 2019 400 (standard model) with the smaller fridge and the wardrobe. 

Height considerations aside, you said "we are still working" so I assume you'll have a spouse, partner or companion with you on your trips. We find the 400 to be the perfect size for two. It does take a little planning and patience when it comes to getting around one another inside - for instance, if one person is at the galley, or has the bathroom door or wardrobe door open as they prepare to shower, get dressed, etc. - the other will need to bide their time in bed, in the dinette/lounge, or out of the camper completely. But it's absolutely workable. 

Having a bed that's separate from the dinette was important to us. If one of us wants to get up early and the other wants to sleep in, that's possible. Ditto a mid-afternoon nap. If the weather is nice and we want to eat outdoors, the dinette quickly flips into a nice lounge area. The new 320's have some very flexible options for using the dinette/bed space as well, but for two people, the separate spaces are really, really nice. 

I won't disagree that the 320 may be easier to tuck into really small sites, but the 400 is still a relatively small camper. Our friends with Class A's and 5th Wheels are constantly looking to see if the sites they want to book are long enough; you won't have that issue with either of these campers. 

The final consideration is cost. I'll assume both are within your budget as you're considering both. Neither of these trailers are inexpensive for the amount of room they provide, but since they are both on your short list and you currently have a NuCamp product, I'll further assume that you "get" the premium price for a premium product. The exact difference in price between the 320 and 400 will of course depend upon the exact model, options and the deal you make, but in rough terms, a 400 will end up costing about 25% more. Personally, for two people - especially when one of you is 6'3" - I think it's money well spent will yield more than a 25% increase in satisfaction. It will also save you the cost of trading up later, which I think would be inevitible if you opted for the 320. 

Just my two cents, and others here will have differing and equally valid opinions for you to consider :-)

Jim

[Deleted User]

I upgraded from the 320 to a 400 and it was the best decision ever!! I was short just about 3" in the 320 toilet area to be able to comfortably stand up. It was also difficult to get off the toilet, hahaha, I know TMI.  I'm single and I always camp alone and the 400 is JUST RIGHT FOR ME!! I love it sooooo much. The 320 was cute and I LOVED it, but it really wan't comfortable in the bathroom area plus there was no where to put anything like clothes.  

Denny16

I also think you are good to go with the SWD Ridgeline for both trailers.  We got the TaB 400 for the extra space in the shower and full standing height in the main cabin and shower.
we have the closet Model, and love the extra room.  I reversed the shower door, so the head could be accessible more easily from the bed area, especially at night when you have to go... ugh!  
Cheers

Dutch061

We had a 2017 320-S, I am 5' 11" and I hit my head on the cabinets over the bed, the roof, almost impossible to take a shower unless you sit on the toilet. When sleeping, my feet hung over the end of the bed. My wife is 5' 1", it was perfect for her. We have a 400 BDL we picked up in early March. If it is within your means, go straight to the 400 and don't think anymore about it.

I will tell you for the size and weight difference, the 400 pulls much harder than the 320's. For what its worth, I have a 2017 F-150 that I tow with and wouldn't want anything less.

Brad

treefrog

We went from a 320 to a 400 also. Nice for two people to be able to stand at the same time, get dressed, make coffee...If you happen to need to be inside for even a short time the extra space is great.
I agree with @Dutch061 about tow vehicles, seriously considering a Tundra instead of the 4runner. On paper the 4runner is more than enough but seems to fall short in power and rear visibility with the width of a 400.

Denny16

A good TV is more than paper specs, it is more about correct size and mass for better control and braking ability.  Both TV and trailer should at least be same width, and ideally the TV should outweigh the trailer by a good margin, to improve stability between the two.
cheers

bergger

I agree with the above comments on the tow vehicle.  Get a properly matched TV.  We recently took delivery of our 2021 400 and prior to getting it I upgraded our TV from a 2013 Tacoma to a 2018 Nissan Titan.  For years we towed an A-Frame camper, approx 2300 lbs empty weight, and the Tacoma was adequate.  Now we live in Colorado and regularly tow over passes that are 10k to over 11k feet.  We considered continuing to use the Tacoma and I'm sure it would have been just adequate with the 400 under these conditions but the going would be slow.  However since getting the Titan I am so glad I did get it.  Having a full size truck with all that power and mass feels so much safer towing.  Plus having extendable tow mirrors is great.   I would not want to go back to a smaller TV.  If you plan on getting a 400 I would recommend a mid size pickup at a minimum but a full size would be even better. 

Addison

I drive too far with my job to get spnethingvthat hard on gas, my Ridgeland used 7.8 liters per 100 kms! 

jameskuzman

Addison said:

I drive too far with my job to get spnethingvthat hard on gas, my Ridgeland used 7.8 liters per 100 kms! 

Unless my math is faulty I believe that translates to somewhere around 30mpg highway miles per gallon, which is excellent for the Ridgeline given the EPA estimates are closer to 26 highway.

In comparison, most of the 1/2 ton pickups from Ford, Chevy and Dodge have estimtes closer to 22 - 23 on the highway. Engine choice, 2WD/4WD, etc. will influence that a little. Either way, towing a 400 is going to cut that mileage in half per what most owners report, myself included.

If you are not in a position either by circumstance or by choice to change tow vehicles, you will have to live with its limiations and make decisions about your trailer based on those restrictions (as we all do). I know you're aware of that and is likely what likely prompted your original question.

It still primarily comes down to math, and there are certain fixed limits that simply cannot be safely exceeded. If you're under those limits with your tow vehicle and trailer combination, it then comes down to what you're comfortable with in terms of margins, how light you're willing travel in terms of extra cargo, and the terrain you plan to traverse. Towing through the midwest or northeast is a way different from towing at high altitudes on mountain roads. 

jameskuzman

Denny16 said:

A good TV is more than paper specs, it is more about correct size and mass for better control and braking ability.  Both TV and trailer should at least be same width, and ideally the TV should outweigh the trailer by a good margin, to improve stability between the two.
cheers

@Denny16 - I agree that picking a good tow vehicle is more than just about specs. The specs absolutely matter of course - there's no getting around the math - and failing to stay within the specified limits can and eventually will result in some manner of mechanical damage to the tow vehicle, the trailer, or both, and compromise the safety of you, your passengers, and other motorists.

Components like weight distribution and anti-sway hitches are specifically designed to help with control - within the bounds of the specified limits - and to help prevent things from getting out of hand in situations like high winds, the need to stop or change lanes suddently, or even to mitiage the push induced by an oncoming passing semi.

The braking ability of the tow vehicle isn't really a factor if the trailer has brakes. When the brake controller is properly set up and adjusted, towing a trailer should not put any additional strain on your vehicle's brakes.

I'm curious about the comments concerning the relationship between tow vehicle and trailer widths and weights.

Some smaller trailers may be narrower than the vehicle towing them, but it's more common for the trailer to be wider. That's why many pickups come with extendable tow mirrors - they're expecting the trailer to be wider.

As far as weight goes, trailers that outweigh their tow vehicles is not uncommon. Using a Chevy Silverado as an example, their 3/4 ton models weigh between 6,000 and 6,700 pounds and are rated to tow as much as 18,000 pounds with the proper configuration. A 1 ton version weighs between 6,000 and 8,000 pounds and when properly configured can tow up to 35,000 pounds. Fifth wheels and big toy haulers routinely weight 10,000 pounds or more, but even 1 ton trucks do not. 

Denny16

I agree the specifications are important.  Trailer width can vary of course. Depending on the type of trailer.  I was referring more to using a small SUV type vehicle that just barely meets the specs to tow a much larger trailer.  Tractor/Trailer rigs are matched for width for a reason, oversized riff setups with over-wide low boy hauler trailers are handled much differently, going slower and flagged.   The commercial truck tractor can handle the wide load, but not at highway speeds.  

Same applies, towing a trailer that is significantly wider than your TV requires special considerations, slower speeds and careful cornering, as well as the extended mirrors.   My point was, the closer your trailer is matched to the TV, will result in a better towing experience with more positive control over the trailer.  I have pulled 8-9 foot wide trailers with 5-foot wide TV, and is not an experience I want to do very often.  Pulling over sized rigs also requires much longer braking distances, and planning ahead when driving a setup like this.  

Pulling a 7-foot wide TaB trailer with a 6-foot wide mid size truck is very doable and safe, and not much different than pulling a 6-foot wide trailer, except for cornering, one need ps to allow for the wider trailer axle.  I saw a Jeep Gladiator PU truck pulling a 24-foot power fishing boat on a trailer that made the truck look very small by comparison of the load being towed.  Not sure I would want to be driving that rig. 🙄
cheers

JT4

Hi Addison and everyone.  I also have a 2017 Ridgeline RTL AWD.  A few months ago I towed a fully loaded dual axle U-Haul trailer from Miami to Jackson Hole, Wyoming.  All was good except the snow in the end may me a bit nervous.  I am thinking about either a used 400, ideally Boondock or a new 2021 320.  I really like the cassette toilet and a few of the other upgrades of the 2021 model so I want that version should we go with the 320.  The cassette toilet really lends itself to our potential use.  Yes, I am well aware of the tongue weight concerns with the older 400.  This is why I traded in my Jeep Wrangler JKU  in for the preowned Ridgeline.   We are both 5'8" and shorter so we are not too concerned with the interior height.  I am anxiously studying both options.

jameskuzman

Denny16 said:

I agree the specifications are important.  Trailer width can vary of course. Depending on the type of trailer.  I was referring more to using a small SUV type vehicle that just barely meets the specs to tow a much larger trailer.  

Same applies, towing a trailer that is significantly wider than your TV requires special considerations, slower speeds and careful cornering, as well as the extended mirrors.   My point was, the closer your trailer is matched to the TV, will result in a better towing experience with more positive control over the trailer.  

I saw a Jeep Gladiator PU truck pulling a 24-food power fishing boat on a trailer that made the truck look very small by comparison of the load being towed.  Not sure I would want to be driving that rig. 🙄
cheers

Agreed, and thanks for the courtesty of the reply and for shedding some additional light!

trimtab

In the same "boat" as Addison.  Looked at and loved both the 320-s and the 400 today. Bal...or deal breaker is, we have an 016 Audi Q5.  Don't know if we would get the GAWR up to 3900 lbs,   tongue weight and wet weight will work, all would be close to limit though. 320 would't give the worries, so stuck in the middle.

Denny16

An Audi Q5 would not be my choice to tow a TaB400, a 320 sure...
cheers

B0atguy

We choose a 320s over a 400 . We LOVED the 400 , and tow vehicle was not a deciding factor for us (have a 1/2 ton v8 truck) . Loved the 400 bathroom, kitchen , front dinette . HATED the bed area . We did NOT want to sleep "sideways" . Also didn't care for the stargazer window (crazy, right ?!?!) . The bed drove us crazy , and couldn't get past it . Why the heck does the 400 have a smaller bed than the 320s NuCamp !!!! . 

In the end , we decided on the 320s , for the larger bed size, and because of the smaller lighter tow factor . We now do not have to use our gas guzzling 1/2 ton truck, and have a dedicated tow vehicle for the 320 which works fantastic (2011 dodge Caravan 3.6) . Get about 16-18mpg towing with it. LOVE that the 320 tows SO well, without the use of sway bars or anything ! 

Denny16

The TaB400 Does have the option of having two beds, with the front dinette converts into a nice size single bunk.  And the Solo model has fore/aft bunk that makes into a queen double bed, and adds some more floor space.

cheers

DharmaScout

I'm 5'11 and the 320 is cramped for sleeping. My T@G was much roomier and more comfortable for sleeping! But after being outside most of the day, it's nice to sit and cook inside, be away from the wind and elements. For sitting the 320 is super nice, plenty of room. I too was conflicted between 400 and 320. But the 400 seems so big! But at 6'3, might be the only way to sleep without curled up in fetal position. I went with the 2021 320 for the cassette toilet. Will be in areas where pit toilets are the only option for dumping.

jkjenn

I would try renting a 320 for a weekend. There are people at yoyr height who are completely fine and people who just cannot take it. You wont be able to sleep wheel to wheel and you will want to make sure you are not getting a clamshell because the bed on the clamshell is smaller.

trimtab

Tongue weight was a concern for us.  Our TV is rated at 440 lbs TW, so we went with the 2020 320-S to be safe. It will fit in our garage, the 400 won't.