Winterizing the 2021 Tab 320 - questions

Alt_Tab

2021 320S owner here and first winterization.

Is there any issues with just running antifreeze through the system and not blowing out the lines?

It seem to me that as long as you are flushing the water out with air or antifreeze fluid either should suffice. No?

CanadianTabber

Why not just fill all the lines with antifreeze and have done with it?

ScottG

Alt_Tab said:

2021 320S owner here and first winterization.

Is there any issues with just running antifreeze through the system and not blowing out the lines?

It seem to me that as long as you are flushing the water out with air or antifreeze fluid either should suffice. No?

That should work fine. As you imply, blowing out the lines then refilling them with antifreeze would constitute a "belt-and-suspenders" approach.  ;-) 

Da_Birds

Can you get antifreeze to fill all of the city water connection lines? That is why I suspect the Nautilus instructions say to blow out the city water connection along with pumping the lines with antifreeze.

I have a new 2021 320CSS and will be following the Nautilus instructions as one of the Nautilus's main function is making Winterizing easier. So I will be both blowing out the lines through the city water connection and running antifreeze through the lines using the winterize connection. I will also bypass the Alde before pumping the antifreeze through the lines because this seems to be what NuCamp recommends and why else would they bother putting in a bypass valve.

While it seems redundant I would rather be thorough. My thought is you need to blow out the city water line(s) to clear them of water since you can't get antifreeze in there. You also need to buy antifreeze for the drain traps etc. So why not just take a little extra effort and run it through all of the lines and have some additional peace of mind?

Also, on the way home from my last trip of the season I plan on opening the fresh water, low point and Alde pressure release valves to allow as much water as possible to drain. This should give the Alde and fresh water tank a good chance to fully drain.

One of the things I find most confusing is that not only do you have model year differences but you have several models. Even in this thread you have people discussing 400's and 320's which have different Nautilus systems. I believe this is a source of much confusion.

ScottG

@Da_Birds, it seems to me if you can get city water in the city water lines, then you should be able to get antifreeze in there as well. I'm not real familiar with the the new Nautilus system, but if in doubt I would just pump a little antifreeze directly into the city water connection.

Another--and perhaps more important--reason for the inclusion of the Alde bypass is that it allows you to sanitize the water lines without running bleach into the Alde's stainless steel HW tank. While antifreeze shouldn't harm the tank, bleach could. 

Da_Birds

ScottG said:

@Da_Birds, it seems to me if you can get city water in the city water lines, then you should be able to get antifreeze in there as well. I'm not real familiar with the the new Nautilus system, but if in doubt I would just pump a little antifreeze directly into the city water connection.

Another--and perhaps more important--reason for the inclusion of the Alde bypass is that it allows you to sanitize the water lines without running bleach into the Alde's stainless steel HW tank. While antifreeze shouldn't harm the tank, bleach could. 

I guess if you can come up with a way to get to antifreeze into the city water connection then I guess that would cover it. I'm just not one to reinvent the wheel if I don't have to.

Good point on the the bypass being used for sanitizing. I haven't come to that bridge yet so it slipped my mind.

Sharon_is_SAM

I have prepared a step by step guide for winterizing the 320 models with the Nautilus.  It will be posted in the Owners Manuals category under "Winterizing Manuals" - Winterizing 104.  This should help 2021 and 2022 320 model owners as well as future newbie owners:)

Updated 11/4/21

Yoshi_TAB

@Sharon_is_SAM  Thank you for putting the guide together.  It looks well written and thorough.  I will be using it in about 1 month after our last trip for the year.  It will be most helpful for us new owners for one of the most important maitenance items to be done each year.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Yoshi_TAB - we still use instructions just to make sure we haven’t missed anything.  When you only do something once a year, it is hard to commit to memory.  Glad to help😊

guitarian

After looking through 3 pages of this thread I am more confused than ever about how to winterize my 2021 t@b. Most of us have spent at least $25K on our campers. How can there be NO information provided from the manufacturer about something as important as winterizing these? 

Sharon_is_SAM

@guitarian - how can we help you?  Did you see the PDF Winterize guidelines above?  There are instructions provided by Nautilus, but there are other things you need to know as well.  The PDF should help.

mntrails

@Sharon_is_SAM, in your winterizing directions, step #2 has the Nautilus levers set at 45 degrees.  At least on my 2021 T@B 320S, this doesn't allow for the fresh water system to be pressurized since there is an 'open' overflow hose from the fresh water tank.  I had to put both levers horizontally to 'Winterize', then blowout each faucet hot & cold plus the toilet flush.  In this position, the system will pressurize and you can perform the blowout.  Perhaps there's something unique about my unit as it was an early build... but that's my experience after much time pondering the plumbing lines and determining just where air was coming from with those levers in the 45 degree position.

guitarian

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@guitarian - how can we help you?  Did you see the PDF Winterize guidelines above?  There are instructions provided by Nautilus, but there are other things you need to know as well.  The PDF should help.

Sorry. I didn't see the PDF.

Sharon_is_SAM

@mntrails - I have finally figured out what the Nautilus instructions actually intend.  Hang on, I have updates!

Sharon_is_SAM

@guitarian - please see the updated copy that I just posted.

Sharon_is_SAM

OK.  So, I think that everyone thought that the Nautilus instructions were incomplete because they do not include how to blow out the entire system.  The intent is to have everyone only blow out the Nautilus manifold, then use antifreeze throughout.  That's why they do not instruct to use the "Winterize" mode to continue blowing out the lines.  With that insight - I updated the above instructions (also in the Owners Manuals category under "Winterizing Manuals" - Winterizing 104.  Sorry for any confusion.  (@pthomas please share with your friends:)

@mntrails - please note the changes and let me know if it is not clear.  Thanks!

mntrails

Thanks @Sharon_is_SAM - great instructions.  Your clarifications hit the mark.

I understand the intent of not blowing out the lines and just filling with Antifreeze.  Living in a really cold place with extended temps of -30F at times, my process is to use the coldest Marine/RV Antifreeze I can find (-75F) and I will still probably continue to blow out the lines to minimize any mixing of Antifreeze and water... yes, I know those precautions probably aren't  necessary but I feel a little better doing the best I can when putting the T@B into hibernation. 

Thanks again for documenting the process.

Sharon_is_SAM

I don’t blame you.  Have you seen the thread about testing your antifreeze by…freezing it?

mntrails

No, I didn't see that... I have a couple inches left in a gallon jug that I used this year.  I guess I'll be putting some in the freezer just to be sure.

MobileSheShed

Once winterizing is complete, at what angles should the nautilus handles be left?  I'm assuming the "Winterize" horizontal configuration would close everything up, which is what one would want. Is that correct?    

Sharon_is_SAM

Leave them in the Winterize position.  Not sure what model TaB you have, but if you have the 320, leave the Alde bypass in "bypass" until after sanitizing in the spring.

MobileSheShed

Hi Sharon, I have a 2021 320cs.  Is the Alde bypass the red lever in the nautilus compartment?  Sorry for the remedial questions!

Sharon_is_SAM

Yes, the large red lever should be labeled Bypass.

MarkAl

Great summary on winterizing. You left out details on the cassette toilet for AF (if any). After I purge the water line by pressing the cleanout button multiple times I put a bit of AF on the valve - open/close the valve and then add a bit as the water can collect there also. Is this considered enough for the toilet?

Sharon_is_SAM

@MarkAl - here are the instructions for storing the cassette.  Which model is in the 320?  

It sounds like you should open the flush valve, blow out the plumbing, just like you do with any toilet, then add a lubricant to the toilet valve.  Empty and clean the cassette.  What do you think?

Sharon_is_SAM

Here is another piece of info.  https://www.thetford-europe.com/gb/tips-winter-storage

Sharon_is_SAM

MarkAl said:

Great summary on winterizing. You left out details on the cassette toilet for AF (if any). After I purge the water line by pressing the cleanout button multiple times I put a bit of AF on the valve - open/close the valve and then add a bit as the water can collect there also. Is this considered enough for the toilet?

The PDF above includes this: 

“Press the button that adds water to the cassette toilet until you see pink. Leave a puddle of AF in the toilet bowl to keep the seal wet.”  

If the cassette has been cleaned and the cassette valve lubricated, a little water will mix with the antifreeze in the cassette.  I suppose you can rinse it out.  I watched a video that leaves the tank open in their garage to dry out.

What are owners with cassettes doing to winterize and in what order?

Da_Birds

I was torn what to do with the toilet. I originally was just going to store the cassette inside for the winter. Instead I flushed until I saw AF and then closed the valve and put a little AF pool in the bowl. I'm not worried about the little bit of diluted AF in the bottom of the cassette freezing and causing damage.

Lubricating the valve, while recommended, is not something I did this year. We have a Thetford portable toilet that we used for camping previously and I never lubricated the seal with a special product. I've never had an issue with the seal. The last season we used it the valve was sticking just a bit at first but after adding liquid digester, which I like to get on the seal with each application, it was like new. Liquid digester may be key here because some say they contain conditioners for the seals. I'd lubricate it if I had the lube but I just keep putting off picking some up because in my experience it's not something that is all that important. I'll inspect it in the spring and see how things look. I'm still considering just pulling the cassette and storing it indoors when finally get around to pulling my battery.

MarkAl

I should have mentioned that I don't like to just pull it out and store it somewhere above 32 degrees as we use the trailer (& toilet) in the winter and I don't want to forget to put it back in... sounds good on the additional comments. I don't put AF into the system except traps and connections. I liked the link to Thetford.

Denny16

Mark, if you are heating the TaB, or running the Alde in the winter, it will keep the toilet cassette from freezing.  The 2021 and 2022 TaB 320s have an Alde heating convector in the washroom.  Also, the washroom sink does not have a 
P trap, so no RV antifreeze is needed there.  The shower has a P trap, you can check the galley sink, some have a P trap, some have a HEVPO valve (no P trap).
 Cheers