Winterizing the 2021 Tab 320 - questions

Captenaj

Hello all, I'm am a proud new owner of a 2021 Tab 320S with the Boondock package. Nucamp doesn't have instructions on winterizing the 2021 but it seems the Tab 400 is very similar. I am hoping I can find some help here.

After I drain the water from all the tanks, and run the sink and the indoor and outdoor showers (hot and cold) until just air is coming out, then I'm supposed to open the low point drain valves. Are these valves what is shown in the first picture (this is inside the Nautilus compartment)? They aren't anywhere near a low point of the rig so I'm not sure that they could be.


Here's the entire Nautilus compartment:


Then I'm supposed open the Alde pressure relief valves. I forgot to take a photo of my rig but there is something that looks like this under the driver's bench. Are these the pressure relief valves? Are these what will drain water from the Alde system?


Then put the Alde on bypass. Then the Nautilus says to turn the handles to 45 degrees, then blow out through the city water hook up. I don't have anything to generate air pressure other than a floor bicycle pump. I found videos demonstrating using a bike pump and they indicate it's a reasonable option. What do people think?

Then run antifreeze through all faucets, hot and cold, and flush the toilet. Finally pour antifreeze down the drains.

It seems like with this process a lot of water will remain in the pipes, but I can't find a schematic of how the Tab is plumbed so I'm not sure. What about the pipe from the pump to the hot water heater? The drainage tube where the fresh water overflows when full? What about all the drain tubes? Does antifreeze end up in the fresh water tank? It seems it get sucked up from the container and distributed to the faucets without going into the tank.

Thanks for the help. I'm a little nervous about exposing my new Tab to 40 below without having taken the proper precautions.

Sharon_is_SAM

Did you see this from Nautilus?

Captenaj

Yes I did see this. It is the only thing that says to put the handles at 45°. Nothing else, not the Nucamp videos nor anything else online says to do this. The Nautilis manual also says to “contact your dealer“ on where the low point drains are. The owners manual says to see the nautilus manual for how to winterize.

Sharon_is_SAM

I believe those 2 drains in the bottom of the Nautilus are the low point drains - plus the fresh tank drain.

jkjenn

I asked Creed if anything special needed to be done with toilet. You just want to press button that adds water to the tank until you dlsee pink coming out.

Don't forget to make sure you get the pink stiff into the grey tank and cassette tank, too.  With the grey tank, it doesn't hurt to open the gate enough to get the pink stuff in the gate as the gate can be a weak point.

DharmaScout

What's the "gate" for the grey tank? When I run the winterizing solution through the lines and it drains to the grey tank, is that enough?

VictoriaP

DharmaScout said:

What's the "gate" for the grey tank? When I run the winterizing solution through the lines and it drains to the grey tank, is that enough?

The valve you open after hooking up your sewer hose when draining the grey tank is called a “gate valve”. You want to work a bit of antifreeze into that area by opening and closing it a couple of times after getting antifreeze into the grey tank, because it’s a pain to have to replace that valve when it freezes and cracks. (Obviously, put a bucket under the opening of the pipe so you don’t end up with antifreeze everywhere.)

jkjenn

I picked up a second gallon if antifreeze for my upcoming trip. 😁

jkjenn

@Captenaj blowing out the lines is the only way to get water out of the lines is to blow it put. I have used a bike pump and compressor and found the bike pump is not nearly as effective as a compressor. 

It is well worth the money to pick up a compressor to blow out your lines. 

Kentsb

Nothing new has been presented here that makes me think the process is anything easy. If I was sitting in my driveway at home it would be one thing. But when your camping 60 miles from the nearest town and had no idea you were going  to see a winter storm two days after Labor day when the temperature right now is 95 degrees, it’s another.  If damage is a real possibility then my only choice is to drive south until I get out of the storms path.

jkjenn

Kentsb said:

Nothing new has been presented here that makes me think the process is anything easy. If I was sitting in my driveway at home it would be one thing. But when your camping 60 miles from the nearest town and had no idea you were going  to see a winter storm two days after Labor day when the temperature right now is 95 degrees, it’s another.  If damage is a real possibility then my only choice is to drive south until I get out of the storms path.

If you don't have a compressor or antifreeze and don't want to risk it, that is really your only choice.

Denny16

If you are camping, and leave your Alde heat on, it will keep the toilet and water lines warm, as they are inside the camper above the floor.  The only issue on a 2021 320 is the water tank and gray tank.  Open the water and low point drains  and dump the water, then open the gray water drain gate valve, and leave all the valves open, this way the will not suffer damage from expanding ice as they freeze — they are open and air will just escape out.  Once is warms back up, close the valves and refill your tanks.
cheers

jgram2

Does it help to move the T@B so the rear end faces any wind? Is it at all helpful to park the tv on the driver’s side of the trailer to shield it from wind?  Does it work to spray a highly saline solution on the gate valves or does that make freezing more likely?

Denny16

Protecting thenTaB from direct wind is good, you could use silicone spray on the gate valves slides, but just drain and leave them open, if you do not have access to RV antifreeze.  I,would not spray the, with salt water, it still freezes, just takes a lower temp.
cheers

Oneota

We have a 2019 320s boondock lite, but I purchased a small 12v air compressor for taking along on cold weather trips, allowing me to blow out the water lines before hitting the road.  It's quite convenient.

Denny16

That is another option, and the one I use.
cheers

JabGopher

Oneota said:

We have a 2019 320s boondock lite, but I purchased a small 12v air compressor for taking along on cold weather trips, allowing me to blow out the water lines before hitting the road.  It's quite convenient.

These are good to have regardless to maintain tire pressures or with the right attachments, can be used for inflatable watercraft, bike tires, etc.

I have a Viair 12v always in my TV and a Dewalt 20V cordless in my camping kit.

Kentsb

Well we just headed home and avoided the freeze situation. How and where do people connect a compressor to the 320?

Sharon_is_SAM

You need a blow out plug that connects to your fresh water inlet.

sptucker

Since it's supposed to get to down near 30 degrees for a couple hours tonight, I did a quick blowout on my 2021 320S BD yesterday using these:


Lowes had the little GHT/Schrader valve fitting for $3.50.  I bought the AvidPower compressor on Amazon a couple years ago, and it is honestly one of the best purchases I ever made.  Great for car and bicycle tires, and I think it worked perfectly for this too!

I drained the fresh and gray tanks, then closed all the fresh valves and hooked up the little compressor to the City Water connection using the GHT/Schrader fitting.  Let it run up to 30ish psi, then opened each side of every faucet (kitchen, bathroom, outdoor shower), the yellow Alde valve, and the cassette flusher individually until they just blew air.  Went through a second time to make sure.  Finally, I opened the two Nautilus low point drains to let all the air out.  This whole process took less than 30 minutes.

I think this method is sufficient for now.  I'll do this plus add antifreeze to the traps before a truly hard freeze.  I did order a GHT/compressor quick-connect fitting which I will try out using my 26 gallon compressor, but I am not sure it's going to do a significantly better job than what I just described...

DharmaScout

Stupid question. If I blow out the lines with air, is it necessary to add the anti-freeze solution? (toxic stuff?)

bergger

It can never hurt to add RV antifreeze.  And it's probably a good idea if you're in a really cold climate.  It gets in all the little places water can in case the air did not blow it all out.  Also the RV antifreeze is not toxic so no worries there.  Just make sure to bypass your Alde and don't put in in your fresh water tank.  

sptucker

I am curious what others think about antifreeze as well.  Am I being naive in thinking a good tank draining and plumbing blowout followed by some antifreeze only in the sink traps is sufficient, assuming all valves are at 45°?  Has anyone had success with this method?

This will be my first winter with a T@B and I would like to avoid issues in the spring, BUT I’d also rather not spend time doing overkill if I can be fishing or golfing instead.  ;-)

Kentsb

I have sent a tech support email to Nucamp. There is a video on YouTube that Nucamp made showing how to winterize a 320. However it is not for the 2021. I had issues on my camping trip with the Alde system. I got the manual out and discovered my Alde system and the one referenced in the manual are not the same. So I am at a loss as to how to be sure I am protecting the Alde during the winterizing process. It is rather disconcerting that with what I paid for this trailer, I was not provided the correct documentation on how to care for it or deal with problems. There has been much advice given here, but not all have the 2021 320 which has a different design. There is even the finger pointing from Nautilus and NuCamp saying who is supposed to provide the important info. Nautilus is not going to know where NuCamp put the low point valves. 

Denny16

On your 2021 320, the main low point drains are in the front bottom of the Nautilus control panel, the yellow Alde hot water tank is in the seat compartment where the Alde is.  The 3020 Alde is the same unit in all the newer TaBs since 2019.  The 400 has an additional red Flo tank, that the 320 does not.  You Alde bypass valve is on the red handle on the left side of the Nautilus panel shown below:

Thus is the pursuer relief valve in the Alde compartment:

MarkAl

I'm with @sptucker on why the need to suck anti-freeze through the blown out lines. Is this from experience that water still collects and causes problems. I do think that traps and lubing the Gray gate exit valve is good practice.

But then if you add a little anti-freeze above why not pump some through the lines to the faucets? It achieves the objectives for the traps and Gray tank valve and gives more piece of mind that if you didn't get ALL the water this should protect things... and doing the pump method is trivial on the 2021s.

Denny16

Tue, but an empty water line, even with a small trace of water in it, but mostly air is not going to freeze to where it expands and breaks, it takes a line full of water to do that.  Add antifreeze to traps, toilet and some in the gray and black tanks to get antifreeze into the lower (below the floor) exposed drain lines and gstr valves is important.  

But adding antifreeze blown out inside water lines is a waste of time and material, you are not adding any real additional protection.
Use the antifreeze in water lines that you do Not blow completely out.  Normally, you do one or the other, but not both.
cheers

Captenaj

A lot a great information here! I am going to try the belts and suspenders method, meaning blow out the lines then add antifreeze. Why? Because I don't trust either method completely. Thanks for all the help.

DougH

A question for hydrodynamic experts.  I've added heating to everything in the basement, but in the pic below the yellow arrow points to the intake line that goes from the fresh water tank up to the water pump.

When you drain the fresh water tank during winterization, the garden hose fill line, the drain tube line, and the tank are emptied.  There's no way to blow these out with much pressure, but there's no need.

However, that line up to the water pump won't necessarily release its water if the water pump makes a good seal at the left connection to the ShureFlo pump.  So it could possibly freeze.

You could disconnect the intake tube from the water pump and let it drain, or even use pressure to blow it out after draining the tank, and while the fresh water drain valve is still open.

But I don't normally hear that discussed during the blowout method winterization, or in the PDFs so far.

Should it be?

In the early days of many T@Bs, some bits of foam insulation in the fresh tank is picked up and we have to clean out the filter and then blow air down the intake line to clear it.  I had to do that a few times in the first six months of use.  This would be the same action... but as part of the blowout winterization process.

Even those who use a secondary valve to pull RV antifreeze into all the lines instead of from the fresh tank, may not be servicing this intake line to the water pump.

Or am I fretting about nothing, and when draining the fresh tank, the water pump is not so well sealed that the intake line will also drain.  We could just unhook the line from the water pump whenever draining the fresh tank, and that would likely let gravity do enough.

What do the experts think?

Giota

I have a TAB 400 2021. The only video on the web regarding winterizing is for a 2020 or earlier. The control panel (Nautilus) doesn't even nearly resemble the 2021. Some instructions say blow it out with an air compressor then use the RV antifreeze, and some don't. Even the Techs at new camp admit this Nautilus is new to them. Some information says there is one ALDE relief valve, some say there are two. One for the main hot water tank and 2- (the Aldi flow valve.) This is the most confusing thing I have ever encountered and I was in a scientific field my entire life . Why can't Nucamp produce a video on each system they produce? In my case the TAB 400 2021.
GOOD LUCK. If your ALDE is compromised this winter it will cost you big time and it is something that Nucamp can correct with a 10 minute video. I like this company. I hope they respond. If anybody has information regarding this, I would appreciate it immensely.

Kentsb

Giota said:

I have a TAB 400 2021. The only video on the web regarding winterizing is for a 2020 or earlier. The control panel (Nautilus) doesn't even nearly resemble the 2021. Some instructions say blow it out with an air compressor then use the RV antifreeze, and some don't. Even the Techs at new camp admit this Nautilus is new to them. Some information says there is one ALDE relief valve, some say there are two. One for the main hot water tank and 2- (the Aldi flow valve.) This is the most confusing thing I have ever encountered and I was in a scientific field my entire life . Why can't Nucamp produce a video on each system they produce? In my case the TAB 400 2021.
GOOD LUCK. If your ALDE is compromised this winter it will cost you big time and it is something that Nucamp can correct with a 10 minute video. I like this company. I hope they respond. If anybody has information regarding this, I would appreciate it immensely.

My thoughts exactly!