Subfloor Issues - Azdel vs Luan

manyman297

@Denny16 Yeah I know what Azdel. I’ve watched and rewatched Paul The Air Force Guy’s factory tour as well. 

The thread link I posted was about composite flooring in general and they mention Azdel. 

Let us know what you hear back from Nucamp but it sounds like we already have our answer from @n@narniaorwhat

Denny16

AirBoss, you probably have an Azdel floor.   You can look in your Alde compartment and you should see the black Azdel panel on the floor area around the Alde boiler.
cheers

johnfconway

xdr said:

NuCamp warranty service is excellent. I towed our 400 back to Ohio from NM as our local dealership refused to work on it. Austin and crew did an outstanding job with our tab.

Would you be willing to divulge dealer name/location? Can send reply directly to me via email option. Have warranty work coming up and need to figure out best option. Thank you!                                         

bergger

I got a response from Austin reference the floor and here it is.  Again he says it is now a better product so that makes me feel better.  I did reply back to him with a few more questions and will post the answers when I get them.  

"Thanks for reaching out. We had a rolling change regarding the floor due to some concerns regarding the rigidness of the floors. Because of this we did implement a more durable structure to the top layer on the floor to alleviate this issue. This is now a superior structure and a much better foot feel as well. This is still a laminated composite floor with green core on the bottom & the same aluminum and foam that we have been building with just a better top layer.

 

If you have any concerns regarding your floor please reach out to our warranty department and they will be able to help you remedy any of these items.

 

If you have any other questions we are more than happy to help you with this."

Denny16

OK, while it not may be Azdel in the top layer, it is still a looks like a composite material, and not Luan or other type of plywood.  But it is hard to tell from these photos, and based in the way is shredded, it could be plywood.

Cheers

manyman297

Oh, that’s good news! A much more thorough explanation than what @narniaorwhat received. So I’m assuming there’s the greencore on bottom, foam in the middle and plywood on top?

Denny16

Austin said in the note posted above, the floor was all a compost material, (what ever that means?):
” ...we did implement a more durable structure to the top layer on the floor to alleviate this issue (floor flexing).  This is now a superior structure and a much better foot feel as well. This is still a laminated composite floor...” Austin quote from pg 2.
cheers

bergger

I asked him a few more questions about the layering of products and what they are.  I'll post what he tells me.  

Denny16

Thanks 
cheers

tabiphile

When there is a concise answer about what the floors are made out of please do share that.
The bubbling may be a simple fabrication process problem. Anyone who has worked with lamination has probably found out what happens if you try to bond to a surface that is not immaculately clean. This is particularly true when you bond a laminate to a grained surface. A bit of plaster, saw dust/construction dust what have you will prevent the adhesive from adhering. The trick (if there is one) is to clean the surfaces extremely well before applying the adhesive. A shopvac and an air hose are very handy for cleaning the surfaces.  

manyman297

@Denny16 Sorry I missed the “laminate” part of the answer. So if it is composite then what were we seeing with @narniaorwhat floor? That’s clearly plywood and they even said a Nucamp rep said it was plywood. Maybe I’m lost here.

Verna

@Denny16, @narniaorwhat has said he has contacted nüCamp and had gotten an answer. Whether you believe it is true or not, it is the answer nüCamp gave him. Please do not argue when someone makes a statement. I do believe the answer given to him as I asked also.  Don’t forget that he has a 2021 400 and you have a 2018–two totally different model years. 

bergger

I am currently working on gathering more information on how the floor has changed, layers and construction of it.  I will share that when I get that info.   But from what I understand so far it seems like the floor may be the same with the exception of the top layer which has been changed to increase rigidity.  This may explain the layer of ply under the vinyl flooring.   In the several emails I exchanged with Austin he is confident the new floor is superior to the old and based on my past experiences with him I have no reason to doubt him.  And this is coming from an owner of a 2021 400 that did have one instance of bubbling on the floor (seemed to self correct and not return).  Stand by to stand by.   

manyman297

Verna said:

@Denny16, @narniaorwhat has said he has contacted nüCamp and had gotten an answer. Whether you believe it is true or not, it is the answer nüCamp gave him. Please do not argue when someone makes a statement. I do believe the answer given to him as I asked also.  Don’t forget that he has a 2021 400 and you have a 2018–two totally different model years. 

Ok, so it is indeed plywood on top, foam core and green core on bottom?

Horigan

bergger said:

Stand by to stand by.   

Denny16

@Verna. Fair enough, I edited or deleted my previous comments.
cheers

Verna

@manyman297 and @Horigan, you have the answer from @narniaorwhat. He called nüCamp as I asked him in a Private message. I was given the answer he was given. That is all. 

manyman297

@Verna we seem to have two people giving different answers here. @narniaorwhat just mentioned the floor is plywood...not sure if that means the entire floor assembly or if there’s a composite under that. @bergger seems to be diving in deeper to get the full answer as he was never told what this “better” top layer is exactly. This goes back to my frustration with Nucamp’s marketing materials and their lack of spelling out the specifics. 

narniaorwhat

@manyman297  I hear you, when I was speaking with Aaron I can only assume he was trying to explain what it was to me in layman terms, he’s the one who said luan, which I had to google because I didn’t know that it’s just plywood. The conversation was something along the lines of the material that I was seeing being luan, it would make sense for there being something else there considering luan is only 1/4 inch plywood and I doubt it could support everything inside the trailer being that thin, I left it at that without really asking any follow questions. I was more concerned with what they were gonna do to fix it😂 Note to self, ask more questions in the future.  

manyman297

Yeah, interested to learn whatever we hear back. Luan itself is hardly an improvement but maybe the luan is adhered to a composite? Either way luan is wood and will rot. I guess we’ll find out. Glad to hear you’re on your way to getting it taken care of.

tabiphile

It seems premature to squelch discussion about the flooring. nuCamp has been in quest of a lasting and "permanent" flooring for years and apparently is still in the throws of experimentation. Luan in and of itself is a standard laminated sub-flooring material that is made with a soft and easily layered tropical wood. There is a waterproof version that is available. It is bonded with waterproof glues. Otherwise luan is a very inexpensive and easily damaged material that you can buy at your local Lowes. Which one are they using? Hopefully the waterproof version.
There are still specifics lacking about the flooring material that is currently in use. Given the  history a specific and unfiltered statement from nuCamp should be an expectation.

ScottG

Sometime answers to the same question vary, or even contradict one another. This may be because the question was not stated clearly, was misinterpreted, or was answered by someone with good intentions but limited knowledge. Often questions beget more questions, and that is how knowledge grows.

This is not a problem unique to nuCamp, nor are they immune from it.

bergger

As I mentioned above, according to Austin at NuCamp the 2021 has the "same" composite floor as the earlier model, with an additional layer on top of that to improve rigidity of the floor.  He assures me it is a better system and not inferior.  The new floor is not just made out of plywood.  As soon as I hear back with more specific information I'll let everyone know.  He was unable to give me anymore specifics so had me reach out to Customer Experience.  It may be a several days until I hear back from them. 

CJax

As a future owner who will receive my 400 in June, I am thrilled to know that this forum community works! I'm impressed by the spirit here of helping one another navigate through our collective experiences. Thanks @bergger for posting Austin's response.

Cheers,

bergger

CJax said:

As a future owner who will receive my 400 in June, I am thrilled to know that this forum community works! I'm impressed by the spirit here of helping one another navigate through our collective experiences. Thanks @bergger for posting Austin's response.

Cheers,

The community is great and wealth of knowledge.  There are certainly some components of these trailers that are a bit more complicated then the average trailer and I have learned a lot from the members here.  Congrats on your upcoming trailer!

chrisinroch

I’ve been worried about nucamp’s ability to scale up with this demand while avoiding a drop in quality. 

Sharon_is_SAM

There are limits that nuCamp works within.  I don't know how much they can really scale up.  That is why those who order new units are waiting so long.  

Marceline

chrisinroch said:

I’ve been worried about nucamp’s ability to scale up with this demand while avoiding a drop in quality. 

When evaluating "quality" complaints, I think that it's important to sort valid complaints from user error. As a concrete example, I think that the probability of the OP's hitch problem being anything other than user error is close to zero.

bergger

So I got some more information from NuCamp reference the layers of the new floor.  I actually was able to get information on the layers from earlier as well, post wood subfloor times.  And actually the flooring has been quite consistent with just a couple of exceptions.

Once the flooring was switched from wood it was layered as follows from the outside to the inside of the trailer:

Greencore, foam insulation and aluminum framing, greencore, azdel, vinyl

​

​Recall: these are floors built during the azdel shortage (hence vinyl right on top of greencore)

Greencore, foam insulation and aluminum framing, greencore, vinyl 

Post recall:  this is the repair to the recall floors (same as prior to azdel shortage)
Greencore, foam insulation and aluminum framing, greencore, azdel, vinyl

Current:  the floors on the 2021 trailers (two layers of luan plywood replace the greencore and azdel layers)

Greencore, foam insulation and aluminum framing, Luan, Luan, vinyl

NuCamp believes this is better as it is has a more solid feel and the change was made after customer feedback that the floors with azdel felt "soft."  It was not made because the azdel was not performing well otherwise.  Only time will tell if the new top layer of the floor will hold up.  As long as it stays dry from above I believe it will.  If water gets into it I'm not so sure.  I'll be checking the threshold at my front door on a regular basis, and also around the shower.  But this should be done on a regular basis regardless of the floor you have. 

So this explains why in a 2021 you will see wood under the vinyl and prior to that you will see azdel under your vinyl.  

pthomas745

And, for those of you coming to this thread from the future: 

Here is a thread that takes you to a discussion of the floor recall for some NuCamp Trailers from Nov 2017 to Jan 2018. Very easy to check the VIN on a trailer to see if your floor was an issue:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8937/underlayment-in-t-b-320-t-b-400#latest

Another thread that discusses the history of Tab floors (covered a bit in the thread above.)  When they changed from wood, when the changes started with the "layered" floors, and construction materials.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8937/underlayment-in-t-b-320-t-b-400#latest