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Battery Upgrade

elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
in Modifications & Upgrades
Got my second Battleborn battery. Ready for some extended boondocking.
_____________________________________________________
Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    Dutch061Dutch061 Member Posts: 765
    edited December 2021
    NICE! I am all about Battleborn, I have 4 in our 400 BDL.



    Brad
    2020 400 BDL aka "Boonie"
    2022 Black Series HQ19 aka "Cricket"
    2021 F-250 Tremor with PSD aka "Big Blue"
    Concord, NC 
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    dragonsdoflydragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,927
    That's great for the both of you, @elbolillo and @Dutch061. And yes you are ready for either extended boondocking or the enjoyment of lots of electronic toys while detached from umbilicals. Our 600 ah BB battery bank has never been discharged below 60%, even here in Michigan since it was installed in January of '21 and we have have never had to charge them. Our 30' TT has been completely independent of hook-ups. The system sustains itself with battery warmers and has been running the 8 cu ft fridge since June while in storage.

    As an aside, you both look to have very nice installations. Camp on!
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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    mdridermdrider Member Posts: 2
    @elbolillo, what battery box solution is that?
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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    mdrider said:
    @elbolillo, what battery box solution is that?
    Two of these connected together. 


    Did it that way so that when I put the lid on I have storage on top.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    webers3webers3 Member Posts: 404
    I have battery envy….
    2017 T@B 320S   2019 Jeep Cherokee - Southern Connecticut
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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    Dutch061 said:
    NICE! I am all about Battleborn, I have 4 in our 400 BDL.



    Brad
    That is a nice setup. I only wish that NuCamp had put the batteries on the inside of the Tab 320 instead of in the tub up front. Maybe one day I'll bite the bullet and do the work to move the batteries under the bed.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    YanniLazarusYanniLazarus Member Posts: 348
    elbolillo said:
    mdrider said:
    @elbolillo, what battery box solution is that?
    Two of these connected together. 


    Did it that way so that when I put the lid on I have storage on top.
    You do a great job of thinking outside the "Amazon Box" and finding great stuff elsewhere. Your outdoor shower mod got components from a fairly exotic place as well, if I remember correctly. 
    Yanni Lazarus 2020 T@B320S, 2018 RAV4 Adventure, Central CT
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    Dutch061Dutch061 Member Posts: 765
    edited December 2021
    @elbolillo, Thank You! I think there are 2 major benefits of having them under the bed.

    1. Makes it much harder for someone to borrow them without the intent of returning.

    2. Since Lithium batteries can be severely damaged if they are charged much below freezing, installing in this area
    keeps them warm (not hot). Based on my observations so far (I have the optional temperature sensor
    for the BMV-712) the temperature when it is cold outside is typically in the mid 70's.

    Although Battleborn offers heated batteries and heating blankets to allow charging in cooler temperatures, what I have experienced so far is that I will be fine no matter what the outside temperature is. 

    Brad
    2020 400 BDL aka "Boonie"
    2022 Black Series HQ19 aka "Cricket"
    2021 F-250 Tremor with PSD aka "Big Blue"
    Concord, NC 
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    tphaggertytphaggerty Member Posts: 49
    Battleborn and Renogy LiFePo (and most, but not all, other brands) batteries have low temperature charging cutoff circuitry as part of the built in BMS (battery management system). So, no fear of damaging the batteries due to accidental low temp charging. Having them in a temperature controlled environment does allow charging when it would be otherwise too cold to charge and does allow the batteries to provide greater output, say if using an inverter. 
    2019 Honda Ridgeline RTL TV
    2018 T@B 400, 300Ah Renogy LiFePo batteries, 350W Renogy rooftop solar
    Poughquag, NY
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    Maple_GeekMaple_Geek Member Posts: 207
    @elbolillo very sweet setup. This is what I'm planning to do with my 2022 TAB320S when it gets out of storage in the spring. Would you mind sharing pictures of the other components in the tub? Looks like you have a charge controller mounted in there also. What transparent box did you use for it? Do you have a smart shunt? Do you use extra solar panels outside of the ones on the roof (if you have that option)?

    I'm very jealous...great job!
    2022 T@B 320S Boondock
    2021 Toyota RAV4 TRD Off Road
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Instagram: new.t@bventure
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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    Maple_Geek said:
    @elbolillo very sweet setup. This is what I'm planning to do with my 2022 TAB320S when it gets out of storage in the spring. Would you mind sharing pictures of the other components in the tub? Looks like you have a charge controller mounted in there also. What transparent box did you use for it? Do you have a smart shunt? Do you use extra solar panels outside of the ones on the roof (if you have that option)?

    I'm very jealous...great job!
    When I get a chance I can add some more photos. Victron 100/30 MPPT controller in the tub for external solar panel. (Renogy 100W Eclipse Solar Suitcase) Victron BMV smart shunt. The transparent box was home made out of plex. 
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    Maple_GeekMaple_Geek Member Posts: 207
    @elbolillo thanks so much. Looking forward to it.
    Are the battery boxes also screwed/attached to the bottom of the tub or just screwed together and the weight keeps them from moving around?
    2022 T@B 320S Boondock
    2021 Toyota RAV4 TRD Off Road
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Instagram: new.t@bventure
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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    Maple_Geek said:
    @elbolillo thanks so much. Looking forward to it.
    Are the battery boxes also screwed/attached to the bottom of the tub or just screwed together and the weight keeps them from moving around?
    I screw them to the bottom as well.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    RFraerRFraer Member Posts: 87

    Do you have a charge controller between your batteries , 7-pin connector and your alternator?  My concern would be the low resistance of lithium batteries working your alternator to hard.


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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    RFraer said:

    Do you have a charge controller between your batteries , 7-pin connector and your alternator?  My concern would be the low resistance of lithium batteries working your alternator to hard.


    I just turn off the battery disconnect when traveling.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    RFraerRFraer Member Posts: 87
    elbolillo said:
    RFraer said:

    Do you have a charge controller between your batteries , 7-pin connector and your alternator?  My concern would be the low resistance of lithium batteries working your alternator to hard.


    I just turn off the battery disconnect when traveling.

    I see, if you are not using the alternator to charge you could disconnect the 7 pin 12v lead to the power center. That way you could keep the house battery power on when driving but battery disconnect works also unless you forget to do it.


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    TowheeTowhee Member Posts: 47
    Isn't battery required to operate the trailer brakes when towing?

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    RFraerRFraer Member Posts: 87
    Towhee said:
    Isn't battery required to operate the trailer brakes when towing?

    Power to the power center is not required when towing, unless you want to run the refrigerator or something. On my 400 power to the and trailer brakes and lights is wired directly from the vehicle through the 7-pin. The only wire from the 7 pin connector that goes to the house battery for charging is the aux power #4 pin. The Breakaway Switch to the brakes is wired to the house battery before the main switch so it never looses power if the pin is pulled.


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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,703
    edited December 2021
    @RFraer you really should confirm that is the case.  In the 320's, the battery switch must be on for the emergency brakes to work.  This does all get confusing:  the bottom line is, test your trailer.  Turn the switch off, pull the emergency brake pin, and see if  your "emergency brakes" lock up the trailer wheels.  If not...the battery switch needs to be on while driving in your 400.  This thread has a description of the wiring with pictures, etc.

    @elbolillo On your 320, your battery switch needs to be on while driving.  See the thread above, or any of these threads that discuss the battery switch and the emergency break away brakes.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,432
    edited December 2021
    @RFraer, unless nüCamp has made a recent change, the battery switch on the 2018-2020 model TaB400s disconnects the battery from the trailer electrical system.  The only thing directly wired to the battery are the Inverter and Solar Charging controller. 
     
    Whilst the trailer brakes will work with the battery switch off, when towing, the emergency break-a-way switch will not activate the brakes unless the battery switch is on.  Once the 7-pin becomes disconnected in a trailer towing failure, the brakes will not work unless the batter6 switch is On.  The trailer brakes are not wired directly to the battery.

    When changing to lithium batteries and not wanting the 7-pin TV charging connection, one could add a small 12VDC AGM utility battery to,operate the emergency braking, and charged via the 7-pin.  Just put the battery in the front tub, and wire it to to the 7-pin charging wire at the front junction box.  This way you can use the main battery cut off switch to disconnect the lithium bank, whilst leaving the emergency brake system to use the small utility battery in the tub.  This is what I plan to do when I convert to Lithium batteries in our TaB400.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,528
    @RFraer - I know you planned to rearrange your wiring, but I don’t see where your battery switch is located in your diagram in this thread:  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14637/battery-inverter-charger-upgrade#latest
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    Ok everyone. I both physically confirmed and also received a prompt reply from NuCamp support. The battery switch MUST be on for the breakaway brakes to engage on a 2021 Tab 320. I do not know if this is different on the 400.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    pthomas745 said:
    @RFraer you really should confirm that is the case.  In the 320's, the battery switch must be on for the emergency brakes to work.  This does all get confusing:  the bottom line is, test your trailer.  Turn the switch off, pull the emergency brake pin, and see if  your "emergency brakes" lock up the trailer wheels.  If not...the battery switch needs to be on while driving in your 400.  This thread has a description of the wiring with pictures, etc.

    @elbolillo On your 320, your battery switch needs to be on while driving.  See the thread above, or any of these threads that discuss the battery switch and the emergency break away brakes.


    Thank you for your comments. I did test and confirmed that it needs to be on. NuCamp support also just
    confirmed. I think it is a bit odd that the brake system is directly tied into the entire electrical system. Back to the drawing board for me.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,477
    There is a rough schematic of the 400 wiring here. This shows that--as is the case for the 320--the battery switch must be ON for the brakes to be powered if the trailer is separated from the tow vehicle.

    You could certainly rewire things to make this not be the case, but this is the way every stock T@B has been wired since battery switches became standard equipment.  
    2015 T@B S

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    RFraerRFraer Member Posts: 87


    Yes, I don't know what I was thinking, I just replaced my AGM batteries with lithium and I did not find any lead to the brakes between the batteries and the main switch. What confused me was I received a NHTSA Recall from a previous Forest River camper I owned.

    The break-away safety switch may not be wired to constant power and may be disconnected from the trailer house battery by the operator when switching off the battery disconnect.

    If the vehicle operator turned off the battery disconnect switch, and in the event of a trailer separating from a tow vehicle, if the break-away switch is not wired to constant power, the brakes of the tow vehicle will not engage, increasing the risk of loss of vehicle control and a crash.

    I think I will rewire my breakaway switch to the battery.

    https://www.rvtravel.com/forest-river-rv-recalls-some-trailers-breakaway-safety-switch-may-fail/


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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    ScottG said:
    There is a rough schematic of the 400 wiring here. This shows that--as is the case for the 320--the battery switch must be ON for the brakes to be powered if the trailer is separated from the tow vehicle.

    You could certainly rewire things to make this not be the case, but this is the way every stock T@B has been wired since battery switches became standard equipment.  
    Scott. Thanks so much for your comments. You seem to be well versed on the electrical system of the Tabs. So if I wanted to add an additional 12v battery to only operate the brakes in case of breakaway I would need to remove the wires from the bus bar and connect directly to that aux battery, correct?
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 315
    Denny16 said:
    @RFraer, unless nüCamp has made a recent change, the battery switch on the 2018-2020 model TaB400s disconnects the battery from the trailer electrical system.  The only thing directly wired to the battery are the Inverter and Solar Charging controller. 
     
    Whilst the trailer brakes will work with the battery switch off, when towing, the emergency break-a-way switch will not activate the brakes unless the battery switch is on.  Once the 7-pin becomes disconnected in a trailer towing failure, the brakes will not work unless the batter6 switch is On.  The trailer brakes are not wired directly to the battery.

    When changing to lithium batteries and not wanting the 7-pin TV charging connection, one could add a small 12VDC AGM utility battery to,operate the emergency braking, and charged via the 7-pin.  Just put the battery in the front tub, and wire it to to the 7-pin charging wire at the front junction box.  This way you can use the main battery cut off switch to disconnect the lithium bank, whilst leaving the emergency brake system to use the small utility battery in the tub.  This is what I plan to do when I convert to Lithium batteries in our TaB400.
    cheers
    Thanks for this info. So the positive would get connectrd to the 7-pin charge wire? Where should the negative be connected? Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (20,000+ miles) / 2021 Honda Pilot
    2024 - 1 Trip - 20 nights - 3 National Parks, 2 National Forests
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,477
    elbolillo said:
    ScottG said:
    There is a rough schematic of the 400 wiring here. This shows that--as is the case for the 320--the battery switch must be ON for the brakes to be powered if the trailer is separated from the tow vehicle.

    You could certainly rewire things to make this not be the case, but this is the way every stock T@B has been wired since battery switches became standard equipment.  
    Scott. Thanks so much for your comments. You seem to be well versed on the electrical system of the Tabs. So if I wanted to add an additional 12v battery to only operate the brakes in case of breakaway I would need to remove the wires from the bus bar and connect directly to that aux battery, correct?
    @elbolillo, yes, that approach would work. Alternatively, if you didn't want to carry a separate battery just for this purpose, you could do the same thing but just wire the breakaway brake switch leads directly back to the existing house battery.

    Another option--albeit one that is a bit more complicated--would be to relocate the battery switch to the line between the junction box and the power center. That was where I placed mine back before battery switches were standard equipment. This arrangement allows you to disconnect only the power center while leaving the battery connected to the breakaway brakes (for safety purposes) and the tow vehicle (for charging purposes) at all times.

    Or you could just remember to leave your battery on at all times when towing.  :-)   
    2015 T@B S

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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,477
    RFraer said:

    Yes, I don't know what I was thinking, I just replaced my AGM batteries with lithium and I did not find any lead to the brakes between the batteries and the main switch. What confused me was I received a NHTSA Recall from a previous Forest River camper I owned.

    The break-away safety switch may not be wired to constant power and may be disconnected from the trailer house battery by the operator when switching off the battery disconnect.

    If the vehicle operator turned off the battery disconnect switch, and in the event of a trailer separating from a tow vehicle, if the break-away switch is not wired to constant power, the brakes of the tow vehicle will not engage, increasing the risk of loss of vehicle control and a crash.

    I think I will rewire my breakaway switch to the battery.

    https://www.rvtravel.com/forest-river-rv-recalls-some-trailers-breakaway-safety-switch-may-fail/

    That's really interesting, @RFraer. I've often thought it odd that it wasn't a legal requirement to have the breakaway brakes hard wired.

    I will say this topic has been a point of confusion (and sometimes contention) for as long as I have been on the forum! 
    2015 T@B S

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