Interesting comment / instructions from the tech at delivery regarding leveling the 400

Jay_and_Kat

(Title edited for search purposes.  Moderator)

We just picked up our 400 BD today and during the walkthrough, the tech doing it said when it comes to leveling the camper, get it level front-to-back FIRST, and to use the stabilizers to "fine tune" the side-to-side leveling, to not bother with wheel levelers.

Now, from the topics I've read here, this seems to be VERY against conventional wisdom / guidelines.  Should I play it safe, swing by our local RV dealer (not the one we got the camper from, they're a 3hr drive!) and pick up some wheel leveling pads?  I mean, they're not outrageously expensive, so...

bergger

Yes go get some! Do not use the stabilizers to level the trailer.  They are stabilizers meant to stabilize the trailer when you are walking around in it.  Not to raise and level the trailer.  

[Deleted User]

Oh my gosh.......exactly what bergger said!  The stabilizers are not mounted to the frame in a location that is intended to bear the weight of the camper.  They are ONLY to kiss the ground to eliminate any feeling of rocking/movement when you are walking around in the camper. 

Do those that come after you a big favor and call the dealer back and explain that what they told you is wrong and will potentially damage the T@B.  

I have used a BAL Leveler for 8 years now and I absolutely love it and recommend it to everyone. One caveat, its a bit harder to fit around the tread on the Boondock tire, but it does fit.  My friend drives up on a 1x4 and then the BAL slips around easier.  I like the BAL because you don't have to be precise in driving up on the blocks. You park where you want and then the BAL slips around the tire.  The other caveat is, it can seem harder to get around the tire in some situations where the ground under the T@B is slightly raised.  The fix then is just to grab a claw hammer and clear the path just a little bit. It sounds like a lot but I like it better than the blocks because you can fine tune your level of level (haha) rather than guess how many blocks you need and then having to settle for the height that is the least unlevel.  Blocks are good too though, but everyone I have told about the BAL really loves it.  Cons: its heavy and you may want to get a pizza delivery bag to carry it in. 

Sharon_is_SAM

The owners manual says the purpose of the “stabilizing system” is to prevent bouncing and the 400 should be as level as possible before deploying the stabilizers.  It says to use a level and adjust the stabilizers until the floor is level.  More like “fine leveling” - terminology that was used somewhere before.  

I think that some of the leveling documentation was geared toward the Avia as they mention requiring 12V power and tongue controls, none of which the 400 requires.  

Funny, we check our level at the time of using our Anderson and while using the jack.  I never check the level at the time of using the stabilizers.

pthomas745

This has come up a couple of times in the last few months.

The stabilizers on the new trailers are completely different than the stabilizers used on my 2017, for example.  Different design completely.  Capable of handling a much higher load than the Bal levelers on the trailers for many years.

The reason that owners (with the older levelers) are reacting so strongly is that we have been trained for years with "don't level with the stabilizers".  It seems we really need to know much more about the new stabilizers.

This thread has more info, including the brochure from Bal that states plainly: "you can use the stabilizers for "light leveling." 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14684/stabilizer-levelers-on-2021-320s-do-we-know-any-more-about-them

Tabulating

I always thought it was not so much about the strength of the leveler, but a concern about twisting the aluminum body of the 400 and causing permanent set.  But, I may be wrong.

We use these.  They are available from many online stores, many with free shipping.

Bill

https://www.campingworld.com/andersen-camper-leveler-104623.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign={Campaign}&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8_qRBhCXARIsAE2AtRZcN7ETC3AWmPPyWdBkixvccSrHxOvlCRVeBx4rXK5xTaf-CEOBRBQaAiq5EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

AnOldUR

TabbyShack said:

One caveat, its a bit harder to fit around the tread on the Boondock tire, but it does fit.  

This will probably get some criticism, but what I do in those situations where it’s hard to get the leveler under the wheel is to use the old tire changing method. Lower the tongue, fully extend the rear stabilizer on the low side and then raise the tongue to take the weight off the wheel until the leveler will slip under. The trick  is to fully extend the stabilizer before putting weight on it. That moves load bearing forward and perpendicular to the frame. 

Deb55

@AnOldUR we do something similar, in that it invites criticism. When we can't get our BAL leveler under the tire of our 400, we'll lift the trailer just an inch or so with the stabilizer, and as quickly as possible slip the leveler under and release the stabilizer. It's only bearing weight for less than a minute. This works well when there are two of us to do the leveling. 

AnOldUR

@Deb55 The problem with that is it’s not a matter of how long the weight is on the stabilizer. It’s the cantilever action of lifting the trailer by cranking on the screw.  But if it’s working for you that’s fine. Just beware it could cause damage.
edit to add, your 400 stabilizers may be different than my 320’s

mona

Unless you’re lucky and pad or site is nice and level, you’re going to need some sort of leveling device under a tire anyway. My experience is that I use those blocks more than not. Tires need to stay on a stable surface. Relying on stabilizers only, may cause a situation where trying to get level causes the tire to come off of that stable surface. 

Jeannie 

SLJ

pthomas745 said:

This has come up a couple of times in the last few months.

The stabilizers on the new trailers are completely different than the stabilizers used on my 2017, for example.  Different design completely.  Capable of handling a much higher load than the Bal levelers on the trailers for many years.

The reason that owners (with the older levelers) are reacting so strongly is that we have been trained for years with "don't level with the stabilizers".  It seems we really need to know much more about the new stabilizers.

This thread has more info, including the brochure from Bal that states plainly: "you can use the stabilizers for "light leveling." 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14684/stabilizer-levelers-on-2021-320s-do-we-know-any-more-about-them

Your assumption that because the newer stabilizer arms can handle more weight, they can be used for leveling. That is incorrect and not the case. Although the newer stabilizers have a higher weight rating, the locations they are attached to can not safely hold the weight. They are not intended to be used a levelers. "Light leveling" is still leveling and should not be done with the stabilizers. Using the stabilizers for leveling could eventually bend the frame supports.

pthomas745

Did you look at the post linked above? 

And the discussion of the Dale Helman mod from several years ago?

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/3688/replaced-stabilizers-with-leveling-jacks/p5

My point here is there is more that we need to know about this.

Horigan

AnOldUR said:

TabbyShack said:

One caveat, its a bit harder to fit around the tread on the Boondock tire, but it does fit.  

This will probably get some criticism, but what I do in those situations where it’s hard to get the leveler under the wheel is to use the old tire changing method. Lower the tongue, fully extend the rear stabilizer on the low side and then raise the tongue to take the weight off the wheel until the leveler will slip under. The trick  is to fully extend the stabilizer before putting weight on it. That moves load bearing forward and perpendicular to the frame. 

This method works fine for the 320, but not the 400.  As mentioned in this thread, the support structure isn't designed for these loads, even for a second.

[Deleted User]

The strength of the "newer/stronger" stabilizers is completly irrelevant.  If the attachment point can't support a higher load then the strength of the stabilizers is irrelevant. This is basic physics and not my opinion. 

JeffroNC

@Jay_and_Kat welcome! If someone suggests a procedure or technique that seems to go against what is currently known about my Tab 400, I reach out to NuCamp to see what their position is. I have seen a number of bad ideas come from some walkthroughs (including ours) that have been described here.

Binghi

Use your system of choice to level the trailer side-to-side, use the tongue jack to level the trailer front-to-rear, then run your stabilizers down and firm them up to prevent trailer shake and combat heavy winds. We back the low side of our trailer up onto an Andersen leveler for the side-to-side work. I would not use the stabilizers to level the trailer. Too much torque and pressure on the stabilizer mechanisms and the trailer frame.

Jay_and_Kat

So we went ahead and ordered (and got yesterday) one of those "drive on until level, then chock" levelers and put it in the outside storage cubby of the camper.

SLJ

From NuCamp 3/29/2022 regarding the 2021 and 2022 T@Bs:

"The stabilizer jacks cannot be used to level the unit. The tires and the tongue jack are the leveling components and the stabilizer jacks are used to stabilize the units once it is leveled."

[Deleted User]

Thanks SLJ for putting this to rest finally!  I wish we could use the stabilizers to level.  Maybe this is something nucamp could incorporate in future models. 

pthomas745

They did incorporate it.  They are just saying you can't use it.

[Deleted User]

No they didn't.  They added beefier stabilizers but still did not attach them to a location that can support significant weight. 

I'm done commenting on this thread. I'm beyond frustrated at this point. 

TomCanada

We've been using the Anderson-style ramp leveler for our first season and they work great - I'd never use the stabilizers for leveling

Denny16

To get true leveling stabilizers on the TaB, would require a different, wider trailer frame, not just the center ladder frame being used, so it could take the weight of the trailer.  As TaB owners, we get a light weight stabilized trailer setup, not a heavy, self leveling trailer.  To save weight and fuel, I will keep the former.  Leveling the trailer is not a big deal, and is quickly done, even if it is a two step dance. 
 cheers 

Horigan

SLJ said:

From NuCamp 3/29/2022 regarding the 2021 and 2022 T@Bs:

"The stabilizer jacks cannot be used to level the unit. The tires and the tongue jack are the leveling components and the stabilizer jacks are used to stabilize the units once it is leveled."

Interesting!  The manual for our old 2016 Max T@b said you could change the tires with the rear stabilizers down and raising the tongue.  I wonder what changed.

Sharon_is_SAM

Not sure what changed, but, nuCamp now only prescribes the 3 point method for tire changing for the TaG.

Denny16

The current TaBs are probably heavier than the early models that use the three point technique.  Frames may have also changed! Coming from a different source.
 Cheers 

AnOldUR

My guess is that owners were climbing in and out while using the three point method or not fully extending the leveler before jacking up the front and then trying to make warranty claims. If used with common sense, the three point method is safe and effective on a 320.

edit to add that our 320 is a 2020 and I don’t know of any changes made to newer models that may make a difference.

Jay_and_Kat

So we did reach out to nuCamp about the levelling question, and the reply we got back is:

3. You cannot use the stabilizer jacks as levelers. The tires and tongue jack are the leveling components and the stabilizers are just to stabilize the camper once it is level.

Denny16

I was referring to pre 2017 TaBs, made under Little,Guy Max, etc. not the current nüCamp lineup, which is when the three-point jacking system was no longer recommended.
 Cheers 

ScottG

AnOldUR said:

My guess is that owners were climbing in and out while using the three point method or not fully extending the leveler before jacking up the front and then trying to make warranty claims. If used with common sense, the three point method is safe and effective on a 320.

edit to add that our 320 is a 2020 and I don’t know of any changes made to newer models that may make a difference.

I suspect the change in jacking recommendation was made more out of caution and--after the heavier 400 was introduced--consistency. I don't recall anyone ever reporting any damage from using this method.

In fact, a popular mod at one time was to replace the stabilizers with scissors jacks that could be used leveling purposes. Although I had (and still have) reservations about this approach based on the strength of the frame mounting points, practically speaking no damage was ever reported here from this mod either.

Note that I am not advocating one approach over the other, just that I am unaware of a single instance of trailer damage occurring from supporting the trailer (occupied or otherwise) using the existing stabilizer mount locations. YMMV!  

MarkAl

What a great thread, there are a lot of good ideas here and cautions. Some concern I think is determining the amount of loading on the strut. As soon as the pad touches and the turning gets harder you are bearing load on the strut (and is allowed to reduce cabin sway). Obviously when the wheel is lifted off the ground the struts are taking the full load from the wheels. Whether the safe limit is (debatable) reached or not a significant level amount has changed. I frequently only need a bit to fine tune the level, My limit is always to leave the wheel in firm contact with the ground. Yours may be different, depending on the model I have heard of bent stabilizers. From looking at the new strut specs I suspect (if) any damage will be to the trailer frame/body which is really tough to measure. This is meant only to try for moderation in all things...