Alde System

T@Balong

I have a 2014 S M@xx and haven't had any problems with my Alde heater but the above post made me curious and so I went out to check my unit.   Now I am more curious.  There are two white handled T-valves, one attached to a red line and the other attached to a blue line.   I assume this means hot and cold water.   What is the correct position for both of these valves to be in?  As others here have noted, this is a very helpful forum.

Wanderoo

Hi, Norm -- Yes, that is correct -- blue for cold water and red for hot water.  The position should be "in line" (vertical) with the red or blue water line -- NOT horizontal to it.  That will close it off and stop the flow of water.  I wouldn't have known this except my BF is an HVAC/plumbing tech.   Since your Alde seems to be working, I'll bet it is in the correct position.  When I brought my T@B home from the dealer in last December, both valves were in the horizontal (closed) position.   When I was ready to "de-winterize" my Alde system, my BF pointed that out to me.  I opened the T-stem valves and everything has worked just great.  =D>

T@Balong

Thanks Beth, that's helpful but I still have a question of you or anyone else.   On my Alde heater, the white T-valve for the red line is in the open position while the white T-valve for the blue line is in the closed position.    Should both of them be open for proper operation?   Does anyone know under what circumstances either or both of them should be closed?

Michigan_Mike

I'm not certain about this video as the guy making the video is obviously European, but wanted to share this in hopes it might help:  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vt5xZEwGvg#t=42

T@Balong

Thanks Mike, an interesting video on an Alde system but not the same one we have in our 2014 T@Bs.     Still looking for input on the white T-valves connected to the the blue and red lines under the bench by the Alde system.    Wondering what is the proper position (open or closed) for correct use and under what circumstances should either or both of them be closed?

DurangoTaB

Norm...since I suspect we have a similar setup in our 2014/15 S M@xx, I was curious and looked under the hood. Our Alde (which I really like) has the main yellow drain valve, T-valves on the hot & cold lines (should be open/in-line), valves on two cross connects (normally closed; I'm not sure why you'd want to bypass the heater), and two drop through the floor lines for each of the hot & cold lines (normally closed, but to be used for draining/winterizing). I hope this helps...if you could post a picture of the white T-valves that'd help a lot...

PaulaK

Thought I would post a photo of the Alde in our 2015 S, but I am having some difficulty doing so. We started the dewinterization process for the first time on Sunday (and yes, I know that summer is nearly over 8-> ). When we hooked up to our garden hose, and I turned on the kitchen faucets (perhaps a little too much?) we heard a loud noise and water came out of one of the tubes near the Alde. We gave up and did some more reading. Nothing conclusive. However, we proceeded a little more methodically through the rest of the process, and everything seems to be functioning well - including the Alde hot water feature. I will continue to try to post a photo. Meanwhile, anyone else have a similar experience? Or know what caused the water and noise? All theories are welcomed!

PaulaK

Here is that photo of our Alde

T@Balong

It doesn't sound like we have exactly the same Alde unit, mine is the 3010.    I've attached a pic, but not sure what you can figure out by looking at it.   If you look close, you can see three valves.  Two white ones, attached to red and blue lines respectively, and a black valve on a blue line.    Right now all three valves are open, which I assume means in working order.   Under what circumstances would I want any or all of these valves closed?

Wanderoo

PaulaK -- Perhaps too much water pressure?  Also, when I spoke with Ed Kaufman, he instructed me to first dewinterize the fresh water tank via the fresh water access port (no city water connection), which means you would be pressurizing the system with the water pump.  Then he instructed me to use the city water connection and flush the water lines, which would be the lines running through the Alde.

As for T@Balong's question, my only theory for turning the T-stem valves to the closed position would be in winter when you are not using the Alde's water function, but only the glycol heating function.  Just my own uneducated guess.

:-w

PaulaK

Beth/Wanderoo, Thanks for weighing in and for the tidbits from Ed. Hopefully some day we will have this all figured out and won't be so afraid of doing something wrong. So far we couldn't be happier with our purchase. Maiden voyage next weekend!

twocutes

Beth/Wanderoo -

Thanks so much for the help on the Alde and for everyone else's comments.  I did locate the single sheet that describes the slider panel operation.  It was buried in another set of papers.  I think I am confident enough, now, to dig in and give the hot water a try.  I especially appreciated the comment about dewinterizing the fresh water tank first with the fresh water intake/water pump and then with city water connection.  I have not yet connected to city water, but I did use 2 tanks of fresh water this past weekend.  A person becomes very conscious of water conservation with only a 5 gallon fresh water tank.

Beth2

deputydog

Ms. Beth,  Be sure to place a Water reducer pressure valve between trailer and fresh water hook up hose. Otherwise your pluming will likely blow apart.

wizard1880

Hi Guys,

I thought I'd help clear up some confusion regarding operation of the Alde with the manual controls.  As mentioned before, we got stuck with them so that LG could put the money into other aspects of the T@B, and make it more affordable for us

Anyway, we've had ours (T@Bulous, a 2014 CS Maxx) since late March and we've camped in it twice so far (April and May).  We have twins on the way so no more camping until next year :(.... in the meantime I'm working on all sorts of tweaks and upgrades for it.

So here goes...

The control panel has three rows of up/down switches, and a temperature control knob.

The switch closest to the knob, on the far right:
This can be thought of as the "power switch".  It determines if you want hot water only, or hot water + heat.  Bottom is off, middle setting is hot water/heat, and the upper setting is hot water only.

(NOTE: "heat only" is impossible due to the design of the Alde...the hot domestic water jacket surrounds the heating/glycol jacket inside the Alde).

Middle switch:
Propane (on/off)

Far left switch:
Electric heating (1,2,3)

NOTE: These settings are only in effect if the right-most switch is set to water/heat etc.  If it's set to 0 (off), the gas/electric settings don't matter.

You can use both electric/gas, but the system favors electricity use.

Now here's the real bummer....In the USA, our Alde's run 120V, so we only get two (2) heating elements, each around 850/900w each.  Setting #1 and #2 are the same, just ~900w.  But, setting 3 gives you the full ~1800W.  Sadly, we don't get 3000W of heating here :(

(NOTE: do not use setting #3 if you are connected to 15/20A power on a standard outlet -- The extension cord might overheat, or you could trip the breaker.  Connect to 30A power to use this safely)

Now, here's some info on the temperature knob:  This knob simply determines when to turn the "heating fluid" circulation pump on or off.  It only works if you have the power setting to hot water/heat (middle position).

I've found that the "room temperature" setting on that knob is about 75(f) or so.  I usually keep it a bit lower, especially when sleeping.

I hope this clears things up a bit (or, sorry if I've confused you more!)

Here's a couple more pointers that the dealer may not have told you, regarding the glycol heating fluid.

First off, NEVER fill it with green antifreeze/coolant!  The glycol they use is from Europe, and they will cake up if you mix them.

If you need to top it off, use distilled water.  This can be bought from any grocery store, and doesn't have any of the minerals that can cause corrosion in the heating system.

I don't know what exact "type" of coolant they use here, but in Europe they use Volkswagen G12++ / G13 coolant.  It's possible we have that also, but I don't know.   I asked our dealer and they just said "Boiler Fluid"....

I learned this information by scouring the Alde forums in Europe, as well as my own testing (which I happen to do for a living )

Happy Trails!

wizard1880

I forgot to mention, it is possible to upgrade our Alde systems with the color touchscreen control.  According to Alde it's plug-and-play.  It's expensive too, like maybe 200-300 dollar range (from the ones in sale in Europe).  I have no idea how one could order it though...

LittleredTab

Does anyone know why the hot water is not to be drunk or cooked with as it states in the Alde manual? The glycol doesn't mix with the water, does it ?

DurangoTaB

The glycol does not mix...I don't use the water because of where it comes from, and how it's stored (eg in a warm storage tank for days), not due to the Alde(which I really like)

Justjudy

I have been wondering about this, too. What about face and hand washing? Not to mention showering... What is the point of a water heater if the water is not safe to use? Our first (and so far, only) camping trip was off the grid. We didn't need heat, so didn't use Alde at all. We took a spigoted 5-gal container of water and used that, heating water for dishes etc. on the stovetop. Is there a way to sanitize the Alde system? Does using flush it out to keep it sanitary enough for all but cooking?

twocutes

Wizard1880 - thanks for the detailed explanation on the control panel.  It reinforced my interpretation of the instructions.  I plan to use hot water for the first time in early October and may even need the heat.  After that, it's draining and winterizing.  Another new adventure for me.

Michigan_Mike

If there are any doubts about the water quality& safety, it might be best to take in a sample locally and have it tested to eliminate any questions or fears.  

Justjudy

I feel quite comfortable with the hot water now...I sanitized the water system before our last camping trip and I could smell chlorine in the hot water before I ran plain water through to flush. I really love the Alde system. Happy with the heat and the hot water both.

rodsglide

wizard 1880...loved your explanation of the panel. One question our dealer can't answer and maybe you know...if we have the propane switch on and are hooked to shore power, does the system automatically use electric or do we leave the propane switch in the down or off position? Heat has worked great, getting hot water our of the cold water faucet intermittently...any ideas on why that is happening?

jkjenn

I found this on an Alde site:

Starting from cold

When heat is applied at start-up, the heating fluid is heated first which then in turn heats the 8.4ltr hot water supply in the outer cylinder by conduction; this means that when starting the system up in cold weather it can take some time to get to the required temperature.

The hook up amperage is critical

Check the mains amperage when hooking up as the available amperage will dictate the appropriate setting on the control panel. The minimum amperage required is;       6amp = 1kW, 10amp = 2kW and 16amp = 3kW.

Gas setting is automatic

The gas output, when switched on, starts at 5.5kW and reduces automatically to 3.3kW as the temperature increases and shuts down when the required temperature is reached, restarting automatically when heat is called for.

Auto default to electric supply

If electric and gas are used together the system default is electric. This means that when you have gas and electric on at the same time the gas will supplement the electric power until the required temperature is reached at which time it is automatically switched off. Depending on the available site amperage you can speed up the warm-up period by combining electric and gas providing up to a maximum of 8.5kW (according to the boiler model)

Gas consumption

Be careful with your gas usage particularly in cold weather with either no mains or only using 1 kW, as at full power the gas burns 405g per hour; that equates to 9.72kg in 24 hours. Clearly this is a worst case scenario, but if you are running on gas alone do take into account the other appliances using the same supply.

jkjenn

I have found the section I highlighted to be true - the Alde heats very quickly if you turn on both propane and electric. The Alde is really a smart system!

Wanderoo

SUPER!  I love the Alde and am glad to know how to heat it up quickly.  I have enjoyed using it during the entire camping season of 2014, and now I know how to use it better next year.  It really is an efficient system.  Thanks, Jenn. :x

jkjenn

Beth, it really gets toasty within a few minutes when you use both. I love it, too. You don't need a lot to keep things warm. I know a lot of people like to use the small portable heaters but honestly, the Alde os great and without the worry of accidentally melting something or knocking it over.

judymac

I think the worst thing this insomniac has done is hop on the Forum and read about the Alde. I do the leg work or reading your helpful comments and share with my husband. I am expecting this is a great system if all aspects are working. I think the de-winterizimg will be complicated for us newbies. Hoping the dealer can help us. We plan to use our hot water. Why have it if not able to use, right? Does everyone santitize and how did you do that? We were hoping to use rhemT@B on a warm weather trip,IF we can educate ourselves. I imagine it will take us weeks to learn the systems.

judymac

Jenn, ? Regarding the photo. Hot=red in vertical position is ON and blue is in the off position? Maybe I am making this more complicated than necessary. Thank you.

jkjenn

Judi, make sure you look at the PDf file on Winterizing the Alde that Mike posted in the Winterizing a 2014 T@b thread. It has complete instructions, including a diagram of the correct positions for hot and cold water as well as de-winterizing and sanitizing.

jkjenn

One more diagram from the Alde site.

Specs:

Height: 310 mm

Width: 340 mm

Weight: 14 kg (without fluid)

Gas: Propane

Output step 1: 3,3 kW

Gas consumption: 245 g/h

Output step 2: 5,5 kW

Gas consumption: 405 g/h

Gas pressure: 27-35 mbar

Volume glycol fluid: 3,5 lt

Volume fresh water: 8,4 lt

Max. pressure glycol fluid: 0,05 MPa (0,5 bar)

Max. pressure fresh water: 0,3 MPa (3,0 bar)

System temperature: max 80 °C.

Power electric element 120 V: 2 x 950 W

Power consumption 12 V DC: 1 amp (max)