Alde System

Nomad

I tend to agree with Jenn - They need to get their documentation house in order. It's all well and good that they correct and change things as they go but they need to have a base document with at least notes on change and when they were made - maybe by VIN number.

Can you imagine if you bought an iPad and it didn't work at all like the one your spouse or friends had - nightmare.

They especially need this since there are so many dealers that are clueless.

breakaway

Our new manual has been posted under the T@B technical area. Hope this can be useful!!

Rick and Sandy 

RZRBUG

As I commented under the section that has the manual Sandy put together, it is an excellent document and should be invaluable to many of you.  I do not have the wet bath or the Alde system in my T@B, but that manual has pertinent, relevant information for everyone.  I highly recommend it.  And, you will enjoy Sandy's sense of humor.

judymac

This is our Alde system in 2014 T@B. We received a reply from LG to ignore the info they sent. I am wondering how many different configurations were in the 2014 models. Our manual clearly states to NOT run the Alde heat if there is anti-freeze in the lines. Our model was winterized, has the sticker on the window; however, waiting to hear from our dealer if when he de-winterized it when checking everything before we left with it. I will add that our dealer re-winterized for us. So, final comment: we have 3 valves, not 5 as shown in LG info. Anxious to get to my laptop to open Sandy's manual. Thank you. All we want to do is take this on a local trip to enjoy it. We would not need anything but the heat for this local trip.

judymac

BTW, LG informed us that they do NOT have a file for our particular model. Really???

judymac

Rick and Sandy, your Alde model is the same as ours. Thank you. I guess our decision is that we will just use a small ceramic heater rather than our Alde. I don't want to, but if we are understanding correctly, our RV anti-freeze must be drained out of our system in order to use. We don't have a bypass on the Alde to enable us to drain Alde only. Phooey. Any corrections on this assumption from those who are using heat and no water? We would do nothing to endanger freezing our lines. Thank you for your patience with me.

Wanderoo

Judy -- It's a good rule of thumb to have a back-up plan for heat and/or water in the event of unforeseen circumstances.  I carry a little heater with me in the event my Alde doesn't work.  So, even when you get your Alde system figured out and feel comfortable with it, that ceramic heater will be good to have. 

judymac

Thank you. Have you used your Alde heat Wanderoo? If so, I assume,you drained the RV anti-freeze out of the lines.

jkjenn

It seems like you could have the plumbing modified in your T@b, Judy, to add a bypass. This would allow you to use your Alde in the winter. I am still doing the research, but it seems like the Glycol in the Alde is an anti-freeze, of sorts, just not sure what the mixture is or where to buy it.

wizard1880

rodsglide said:

wizard 1880...loved your explanation of the panel. One question our dealer can't answer and maybe you know...if we have the propane switch on and are hooked to shore power, does the system automatically use electric or do we leave the propane switch in the down or off position? Heat has worked great, getting hot water our of the cold water faucet intermittently...any ideas on why that is happening?

(Sorry for the delay -- just trying to prepare our house (and soon t@b!) for our new minions due next week hopefully)

I think it's been best answered now, but yes it will use both electricity and propane for the initial warm-up, but once it's heated up it will just use electricity only.  If it gets too cold (i.e. below freezing outside, and you're only using setting #1 lightning bolt), it may kick in the propane to "boost" it up again as needed.

As for the hot water from the cold tap, ours does this too.  I'm not sure why.  It's usually just for a brief moment when you turn on the cold tap, but the hot water from the Alde is so HOT (I measured 158f once) and it will scald you if you don't give it a moment to go cold again.  I plan to draw a schematic of the entire plumbing system and try to spot the flaw.  Hopefully a one-way valve in some place (plus maybe an expansion tank?) would solve the problem.  If anyone knows the solution or has already asked Ed, please post! 

wizard1880

I believe a lot of the confusion around how to winterize, etc. comes with the fact that almost every different model of T@B is plumbed / wired differently.   Just think of the all the floor plans, and the fact that some have wet baths, others without.  That's a lot of combinations, each needing a specific setup.  For example, our clamshell's heating system with the circulation pump and "boiler fluid" is different from all other models -- the boiler fluid bottle is located inside the cabinet next to the A/C, near the front.   Easy to get to.   In other models I hear that it's closed up inside a cavity near the back, and can't be accessed without removing screws (yikes!)...

On a slightly different subject, that's odd to hear that Alde doesn't recommend using RV antifreeze stuff to winterize the plumbing.  I wonder if this is because if you used your Alde for heat only, it would also heat up any antifreeze in there, causing problems?  Does that mean our only option is to use an air compressor to blow out all of the water?  Hmm.

Wanderoo

Judy -- Yes, I used my Alde heat last spring for the first time, and I did drain and flush both the fresh water system (which had anti-freeze added by the dealer) and the Alde system before I used it.  I also camped last month and used the Alde for heat only after I had drained all water from the Alde and the water lines.  Mine does not have a by-pass valve either, but I pulled UP on the T-stem valves and the water drained below the rear of the T@B. 

When I winterized T@B a couple of weeks ago, I blew out the lines with compressed air and then added anti-freeze to the fresh water tank and also down the drains.  I can still camp if I want to and use the Alde for heat, because there is no anti-freeze in the lines.

judymac

Thank you Wanderoo!

Cheryl74074

Jenn- I had asked a question about the lightning bolts, and I thought you were the one that answered?? Maybe not. But the answer that was posted was that in the US, 1 lightning bolt was equal to 2 lightning bolts in amperage drawn, and 3 bolts was using twice as much amperage. I don't know if that's true or not.

However, your manual states: "Check the mains amperage when hooking up as the available amperage will dictate the appropriate 

setting on the control panel. The minimum amperage required is; 6amp = 1kW, 10amp = 2kW and 16amp = 3kW."

Also, the part that says not to push it up to 3 bolts (in the US) is confusing. Based on what other appliances you are using, it should be OK, except maybe when using the water heater and the air conditioner at the same time?

Also, the whole section on 'maintenance' is confusing! Adding glycol, bleeding the system, etc. Pictures of the parts referred to would be great...e.g. 'expansion vessel', 'drain cocks', 'bleeder screws', how to turn off the circulation pump while the Alde is on, etc..

Thanks for doing this!

Cheryl74074

The "Maintenance" area of the text (that I referred to above) should probably have a cautionary statement...

And it states that you should refer to the vehicle manual for the position of the bleeder screws...what manual would that be??

The description of where the radiators are in the T@b is incomplete. Maybe it depends on model? Our main radiator goes across the width of the T@b in the back- under the shelf that is under the back cabinets.

jkjenn

Thanks Cheryl., that is good feedback Yeah, I intend on adding photos but wanted to validate the content first.

judymac

I thought things were becoming clearer on the Alde,that is until I decided to go back to the first postings on this system. I read that there is no way the Alde can be used for heat only due to its configuration. Assumption was made that if our T@B was winterized (fresh water, drains, sink, etc) and we flushed RV anti-freeze out of the lines leading to Alde that we could heat the RV. Secondly, can it be run on propane only? I have reviewed our manual switch/control and I understand the settings. Thanks again. We are terrified to turn it on until we know more.

judymac

PXLated said:

judymac - Do you mean without a hookup?

I've been boondocking for a couple of weeks without hookups - do have solar panels - and the Alde has been working fine. Needs electrical (battery) for the pump to circulate the glycol but doesn't seem to wear down the batter at all. It's a pretty efficient system as far as I can tell.

Now if you really want to kill your battery, leave the outside light on all night.

The other thing that uses more electricity than I expected is the ceiling fan.

Were you required to have water in your tank?

wizard1880

Just to clear up a some confusion with the "lightning bolts",  setting 1,2 are the same (one element, 950w).  Setting 3 turns on both elements (950w x2 =1900w).

(This is because our Alde is designed for 120v only.  The euro models (1,2,3KW) use 240v.  Aren't they lucky...)

It is OK to use the setting 3 (lighting bolts), IF you are connected to a 30A (120v) plug.  Most powered campsites have these.  You might need to use an adapter to convert from 50A > 30A if needed, since some sites only offer 50A, and this is OK too.

Now here's the confusing part...

If you are using that black adaptor (wide 3-pin to standard NEMA) with your power cord to connect your T@B a standard outlet (15/20a), you should only use setting 1/2.  If you know you are plugged directly into a 20A circuit, You can use setting 3.  BUT, this is near the the maximum recommended (continuous) current in a 20A circuit.  Plus, if you use your TVs, any appliances, etc. you could go over this limit, and the breaker might pop.

Note that if you try this with a 15A circuit, it will pop in a couple seconds if you turn to setting 3 lightning-bolts.

I would avoid using any other extension cord, other than the yellow cord and adapter that comes with the T@B.  Almost all extension cords are only rated for 12-15A.   You will probably pop the circuit breaker, or worse, overheat the extension cord, if you turn the heat up to 3.  It's OK for setting 1/2 though.

Cheryl74074

Wizard1880- Excellent explanation. Thank you!

Jenn- This should be added to your manual!

Nomad

judymac - Mine came winterized so I didn't fill the freshwater tank. So no. The heat system works independently of the the hot water system. I've since filled the water tank and then now re-winterized since we have a few below zero days coming here. 

judymac

Wizard 1880, our manual gives different wattages on the Lightning bolts. Mind if I ask where you obtained this info?

mawebb

I believe the value you are referencing are from the "Instruction for the use of the control panel 3010 214" which states: A. Electrical cartridge OFF. B. Electrical cartridge ON at 1050 W power. C. Electrical cartridge ON at 2100 W power. D. Electrical cartridge ON at 3150 W power (if the boiler is equipped with this power level). This applies to systems using 240 V. Since our system are limited to 120 V, we don't have the same wattage settings available to us. I can' recall where I have read it, but as per Wizard1880, our settings are as follows: 1,2 (B, C) are the same (one element, 950w).  Setting 3 (D) turns on both elements (950w x2 =1900w). Even on the Alde US site, the manual is still the one for the 240 V configuration. I think the information may have come from someone that sent a query to directly to Alde to clarify the operation for the 120 V systems.

stinkbug

No time to read all comments but my Alde expansion tank was noisy and churning.  No amount of bleeding with trailer tipping could stop it.  Then I saw circulation pump was set at maximum pumping rating.  Adjusted to #2 setting with red dial and that fixed it.

Nomad

When I talked to the factory way back when, they told me the normal factory setting for the red dial was 2 - If you want more circulation (more frequency) you can turn it up a notch. I was in 10 degree most so set it at 3 for a week. That little red dial's hard to see.

deputydog

     The Alde heater is a sealed system that is filled with a type of Glycerol.  Winterized, I drain water supply lines and use an adapter that screws into the outside water connecter.  A light pressure to lines is used by a compressor to blow out the water still remaining.  It comes out as a mist so little water remains in lines once drained. Some people use a bicycle pump I'm told.  I live in Michigan which has temps drop 10-15 below zero F.  So far no problems.  NO antifreezes added to lines since there's only air in lines. Quick and easy. Just fill with water in Spring and Your good to go.

Nomad

I do the same - Doestn't take too long once everything is drained. I also poor a little RV antifreeze into the trap and holding tanks.

twocutes

I am so glad I found this posting, as I have the same questions.  I will download and review the manual posted in Technical last October.  My T@B does not have a bypass for the Alde.  I had a local dealer winterize with RV antifreeze, as I don't want to rely on air blow out only in this climate, especially since it spent the winter in a pole barn.  I think the same was done before I bought it last July and the Alde worked fine during a test last year.  I haven't yet tested it this year, but I will be doing that this week, as the 2015 maiden voyage is next weekend and lows are expected in the 40s F.  I definitely am interested in everyone else's experiences and look forward to more specific documentation!

hatbox

Ugh...read the pdf--about as clear as mud.  Question: can you use heat only setting with no fresh water in tanks without dry firing and cracking the boiler?  And, how much water has to be in fresh water tank to fire up hot water heater?  And, where is the yellow drain plug which you are supposed to open and drain after every trip (because of the cushion?)  

Normfun

Yes. My trailer has NO water in it, never has. Been using the Alde all winter. Over 30 nights no problems.