New T@b - can't get Alde working

Michigan_Mike

TerryV6 said:

The lights work,  the ceiling fan does not.   There is a blue indicator light on the TV,  so I assume there is power there.  The Stereo does not come on.  
Thoughts? 

Terry, the ceiling fan has a small switch built  into it and unless you crank the vent cover up high enough (and far enough to activate the switch) the fan motor will not activate and run.  Try cranking the vent cover and see if the vent fan operates as I'm guessing that this is the real issue here.

Here is some additional information from the manufacturer regarding the fan:

Q  MY FANTASTIC VENT WILL OPEN BUT THE FAN BLADE WILL NOT TURN WHAT IS WRONG?

A   The motor ground is made or broken using a plunger switch, located on the hinge side of the dome accessible from the top of the coach, this plunger style switch can become dirty, sticky, or corroded from the elements and may need to be cleaned with some emery cloth or replaced.  Most of the time when a fan will not operate this switch is the culprit. The nut is a 7/16” size if this needs to be removed.

source3

TerryV6 said:

.....Someone should write an idiots guide.   

Like this?  http://www.tab-rv.com/forum#/discussion/499/owners-manual-for-an-early-2014-s-m-x/p1

ChanW

TerryV6, I'm betting it's one of the pair of fuses in the Alde.

Here's a bit of info on it, that I put up in the Yahoo group:

Verna

My first glass fuse was the one that was blown. Both Mike and I had a common blown fuse and the only reason we could think of was that neither of us turned the Alde off when disconnecting. After that, I always turned it off when I had the analog thermostat. 

TerryV6

Thanks Mike,   We have the fan and stereo working.   We will try all these other helpful things this aft.... 

Jeanne

I don't know how many times the first fuse in our Alde has blown. This year I have only set it at one bolt, and so far, no blown fuse. That is both on house power and 30 amp. It keeps us warm and cosie so that is where I am setting it. I have become a real expert at changing that fuse though. 

ScottG

I believe there are 12V solenoids that control the 120V power to the two electric elements. If what Jeanne says continues to hold true, I wonder if the problem can be traced back to the solenoid for the #2 element.

Anecdotally, it seems to me those Alde fuses blow with unexpected frequency. I'm curious as to what's behind this.

Mr_Mrs_Gnome

@ST_Bob, will you come with us on our walkthrough when we pick up our T@B in a couple of weeks???

Mr_Mrs_Gnome

@ST_Bob, maybe LG can get you and Jenn to write the manuals and do the videos!Like you said, we are first time RVr's coming from Ultralight Backpacking and tent camping, where toilet paper is a luxury. Ask me how to start a fire in a rainstorm or build a snow cave and I can do that, but get a Norcold or Alde started and keep them running? I'm a complete Newb. Thanks for all your technical knowledge and insight!

Verna

Mr_Mrs_Gnome said:

@ST_Bob, maybe LG can get you and Jenn to write the manuals and do the videos!Like you said, we are first time RVr's coming from Ultralight Backpacking and tent camping, where toilet paper is a luxury. Ask me how to start a fire in a rainstorm or build a snow cave and I can do that, but get a Norcold or Alde started and keep them running? I'm a complete Newb. Thanks for all your technical knowledge and insight!

You'll get there. I went from wintering in a Silver Shadow teardrop last winter and only knowing how to spell "T@B". I was convinced the Alde was super complicated, but with the experience of reading everything on the forum a year ago (yes, I did do that--it helps), the mystery of the Alde has turned into a wonderful invention that kept me warm all winter, heated water for my showers and dishwashing, all loaded into this cute thing called a T@B. 

Michigan_Mike

ScottG said:

I believe there are 12V solenoids that control the 120V power to the two electric elements. If what Jeanne says continues to hold true, I wonder if the problem can be traced back to the solenoid for the #2 element.

Anecdotally, it seems to me those Alde fuses blow with unexpected frequency. I'm curious as to what's behind this.

I attribute my blown fuse to possibly a voltage imbalance either from leaving the Alde unit on and powering up my trailer or possibly when the circuit operated on the distribution circuit (e.g., probably a tree limb on the primary, etc.) my home is fed from.  I think the Alde fuses are very sensitive and any imbalance of electric power will blow them as that is what they are designed to do.  

DurangoTaB

ST_Bob...100Ah... From a group 24?  Like Valence...?
https://www.valence.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Valence_Module_Range_Sept-2015.pdf
Is there a downside besides cost?

JustJohn

Verna said:

My first glass fuse was the one that was blown. Both Mike and I had a common blown fuse and the only reason we could think of was that neither of us turned the Alde off when disconnecting. After that, I always turned it off when I had the analog thermostat. 

Verna and Mike reflect my experience with the Alde fuses. I have had to replace the fuses only once and that was when I connected to a power source with the heat and hot water setting on, first power switch off. Since then I have made sure all Alde switches were in the off position when connecting or disconnecting any power source and no more blown fuses in 14 nights during 4 trips since I have had my T@B. I know this only anecdotal but it appears that all switches must be off, not just the first power switch to be safe. I don't see this as a problem just an operational protocol.

Verna

JustJohn said:

Verna said:

My first glass fuse was the one that was blown. Both Mike and I had a common blown fuse and the only reason we could think of was that neither of us turned the Alde off when disconnecting. After that, I always turned it off when I had the analog thermostat. 

Verna and Mike reflect my experience with the Alde fuses. I have had to replace the fuses only once and that was when I connected to a power source with the heat and hot water setting on, first power switch off. Since then I have made sure all Alde switches were in the off position when connecting or disconnecting any power source and no more blown fuses in 14 nights during 4 trips since I have had my T@B. I know this only anecdotal but it appears that all switches must be off, not just the first power switch to be safe. I don't see this as a problem just an operational protocol.

John, if you change to a digital thermostat, that real sensitive situation seems to go away (knock on wood!). I have left mine on ever since I forgot to turn it off when I changed campgrounds a couple of times. The only other time I blew the 1st fuse was installing the thermostat--I missed the instruction that said to power the Alde down.  

When I store the T@B after I get home and get all of the AZ dust out of it, I will turn the digital thermostat off at that time. No sense in making the Battery Tender work harder than it has to. 

ScottG

JustJohn said:

Verna and Mike reflect my experience with the Alde fuses. I have had to replace the fuses only once and that was when I connected to a power source with the heat and hot water setting on, first power switch off. Since then I have made sure all Alde switches were in the off position when connecting or disconnecting any power source and no more blown fuses in 14 nights during 4 trips since I have had my T@B. I know this only anecdotal but it appears that all switches must be off, not just the first power switch to be safe. I don't see this as a problem just an operational protocol.

Anecdotal perhaps, but certainly suggests a pattern. We used the Alde (with analog thermostat) frequently but intermittently during our first season, turning it on when needed, and fully off when done. The system always worked fine--good thing, as I didn't have a clue about the Alde fuses at the time. :-)

Thanks, Verna, Mike, and John. Anyone else observe the same pattern?

Michigan_Mike

Bobbo said:

We have RV'd for the last 8 years in a 32 foot Class C motorhome. I learned EARLY that you turn off everything that runs on 120v before plugging in or unplugging from shore power. Everything. No air conditioner. No water heater. Nothing is on. After a short while, it will become a habit.

This is good advice and a great rule of thumb too is to isolate the trailer from the power source (e.g., the park pedestal/shore power) as this can eliminate problems and help protect the trailer from park electrical problems.  It's a good idea to use a 30 amp RV surge protector to protect the trailer.  

I have seen visible, physical damage to park electrical pedestals from prior campers who accidentally backed their trailers and vehicles into the upright electric pedestals, breaking/bending/distorting the protective covers, etc.  And with that said, you really don't know, nor can see what other damage has taken place and occurred inside these units (damaged wiring, defective ground wires, etc.), so it is a good idea to test the voltage or use a surge protector to protect against these types of issues to ensure personal.  

jkjenn

This might be antectdotal, as well, and I know I am jinxing myself, but I have never had a blown fuse, and I doubt it was because I have always done everything correctly. I can't help but wonder if the surge protector I use has not saved me more than once from a situation that would blow my fuse. I know it saved me when I plugged into a pedestal with reversed polarity.

Allie

After reading all the posts, and getting educated in electronics, there is one area no one has addressed as far as I can tell.  IS THERE WATER IN THE ALDE SYSTEM?  (I'm not shouting, just want to raise the question.}  Since it appears that all the fuses are good, the panel is set correctly, it should work If there is water circulating in the system.  In my unit I hear lightly running water when the system is on.  Is it possible the pipe was drained and the valve shut off when winterized and never turned back on again?  I have no clue where the water valve for the Alde is, or which one it is.  Otherwise, I'd try to be of more help.  If someone could take a picture and note which way is on/off it would help too.

JustJohn

Allie, Sorry but cannot help with the valve question as I am not familiar with your model  but the Alde system produces heat with or with out water in the system. That being said, you obviously have to have water in the system to have hot water and there is a good possibility your dealer drained the Alde unit when he winterized. Do you have hot water when the system is on?

Tabaz

Allie - Here's a picture of my Alde. The value in question is right there.  Can't miss it.

Nerdy1

Gosh Outback, I was worried there for a minute that I somehow had gotten the old version of the plumbing (like my ALDE pump doesn't have an adjustment knob to change the speed in case of gurgling/noise).  

Tabaz

This is a photo of their prototype unit (with 15 manual valves).  Thankfully the production models are (slightly) less confusing.

Ratkity

You are not going to believe this... I'm gonna get:
Picts or it didn't happen
You didn't look in the right place
It's not possible
If it were a snake, it would have bit you BUT....

There is no Hot/Cold mixing valve on my Alde unit. I went in to check the inside fuses since I'd never looked at them. No extras inside. I can see two valves for winterizing where the cold water comes in and the hot water goes out. There is no mixing valve in either of the driver's side benches. I followed all lines to the shower and to the sink. I'm at a loss. Anyone have the mixing valve hidden somewhere?

I looked for the post that had the mix valve picts, but got lost in a sea of Alde posts.

Thanks!

jdargis

What year T@B?  We have a 2015 M@X-S without the valve.  It was later added as production rolled along, just as tank sensors, etc.  Everything works fine without.

Ratkity

Oh.. it's in my sig line... didn't say in post. Early 2015 T@Bitha. I left a msg for Ed K to see if these were made without one. I don't think it's a big deal since I have hot hot water and adjustments are made at the shower or sink handles.

Edited to add: Found the post with the picts. Sorry to hijack this thread. I swear I looked for 30 minutes for that post.

TerryV6

If the dealer winterized the T@B, do I have to drain anything in order to get the Alde to run?   All fuses have now been checked and tried to start in on propane and shore power.   Either a call to Ed,  or a 122 mile trip to the dealer.   Think I'll do the former,  as I get 12 jpg pulling my unit... 

jdargis

You do not need water in the Alde to use it for heating only.  Also, if the trailer was winterized properly, there should be no water or antifreeze in the water tank of the Alde.

jdargis

Are you talkin about the freshwater tank or Alde tank?  My Alde tank has a bypass valve in front and bypass in the back, there is a drain valve between the bypass valve and Alde, which also works as a pressure relief water valve, found that out when my defective water pump was putting out to much pressure and blowing my water from the freshwater tank.  There is also an air vent tube coming off the Alde, which helps with draining the Alde tank.  Per Alde, you don't want RV antifreeze in the boiler tank.

jdargis

It's basically like a standard winter bypass arrangement on a standard RV water heater, if you didn't have the bypass, you ended up , adding an extra 6 gal of RV antifreeze to get antifreeze into the water system.

jdargis

With the bypass valves, the drain valve works the same as the drain plug on the standard RV water heater.