New 400 Model T@B?

Justin_in_Seattle

marknjudy said:

Essentially the same size (with more features, I feel) than the Airstream Bambi Sport 16j, the Airstream Base Camp and the Casita. The Casita is closest to price depending on options, but the Airstreams are a good 10K more than the 400; and the 400 looks much better and has more features.

A gently-used Airstream Bambi 16 can be had in the mid 30's, so that's pretty close to the MSRP for the Tab 400 (I was quoted about $31K for a Tab 400 in WA state).

A nicely equipped new Lance 1575 is almost the exact same price as the Tab 400, so that's perhaps the Tab 400's most obvious competition.

Of course, a new R-Pod can be purchased in the upper teens. Same goes for the various R-Pod clones, such as the Jayco Hummingbird, Winnebago Winnie Drop, and Starcraft Comet Mini. Style-wise they're not nearly as nice as the Tab 400 (based on the recent Tab 400 videos on YouTube), and they're built from lauan, but R-Pods are a heckuva value for what you pay.

My family is deciding among the above options. All can be towed by a TV with a 3500lb rating. It's a tough choice. Now that the Tab has grown they are in a very, very competitive segment of the market. Currently we're leaning toward a Tab 400 or a Lance 1575. 

Ah, the paradox of choice!!

Nomad

My brother bought an rPod - wanted more space. Paid roughly the same as I paid for the T@B but the quality really is cheap.

TabberJohn

At some point it's no longer a teardrop other than by silhouette. IMO the 400 is at that tipping point.
If you want something bigger with more amenities you'll have to abandon the teardrop mystique.
Either that or the 400 is on the cusp of a brand new era.
Next up -- the T@B 1000 (aka Atomic Teardrop) complete with hot tub spa, surround sound theatre, and upper deck master bedroom. No need for solar since it's nuclear powered. There's nice green glow accent lights in the main cabin. If you're queasy about dumping spent fuel rods choose the Mr. Fusion upgrade. That also nixes the black tank so your toilet and trash power most of the appliances.

ChanW

@TabberJohn, IIRC the flux capacitor allows flight? (Only at <400ft altitude, I expect)

ChanW

Yep, Urban Cowboy is a favorite...

ericnliz said:

ChanW, Yup, recommended by bull riders everywhere! Whatever possessed you.....never mind, answered my own question.  

TabberJohn

ChanW said:

@TabberJohn, IIRC the flux capacitor allows flight? (Only at <400ft altitude, I expect)

Fixed to "Mr. Fusion".  Thanks!
The flux capacitor option is very pricey but also nixes your TV.

TABaker

Justin_in_Seattle said:

My wife and I really like what we've seen so far regarding the 400, especially the much larger bathroom, extra sleeping space, and headroom. So we reached out to a local Tab dealer for a quote. The price came back at about $31K, and they're taking pre-orders now.

That seems like a lot, even for a trailer as nice as the 400.

That price puts the 400 in roughly the same range as a new Lance 1575 or used Airstream Bambi 16. It's a tough choice since our TV can tow any of those. Both of those alternatives would have more space for my wife and I and our 10yo son.

My question for the group is, what would you do in a similar position? Are there compelling reasons to go for a Tab 400 over the Lance or Airstream? Thanks for any input.

I used to envision the Lance 1575 as my possible retirement trailer if I decided to be on the road months at a time, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.  Until last month at an RV show, I'd never stepped inside one. Planning to love it, instead I got the "ho hum" feel.  (The show was overwhelming, though, and my head was spinning) However, a big plus for me over the T@B 400 is the fridge/freezer.  No comparison.  I'm really disappointed in the size of the fridge in the 400, but I realize you have to give and take.  The euro version has a larger fridge and I was expecting that.  Another big Lance plus is a dry bath.  A negative on the Lance is cargo capacity (unless that's been changed recently).  They go on and on about "storage", but they don't mention it's almost at capacity before adding anything.  They've also decreased the size of the back window :(  The Lance gives you much more floor space and seating, though.  You also get an oven, if that's important.  I've always loved that Lance 1575 uses the windows that I love in my T@B, as well.

Justin_in_Seattle

TabberJohn said:

At some point it's no longer a teardrop other than by silhouette. IMO the 400 is at that tipping point.
If you want something bigger with more amenities you'll have to abandon the teardrop mystique.

Does anyone know if the teardrop-shaped Tab 400 would be more efficient to tow than a fairly boxy Lance 1575?  The Tab looks aerodynamically "slippery", so does that make it easier to maintain highway speed with less energy?

Here in western WA there are a lot of mountains nearby, so a trailer that that can be towed up the mountain passes at 60mph without redlining the TV engine would be nice. ;-)

TABaker said: 
I used to envision the Lance 1575 as my possible retirement trailer if I decided to be on the road months at a time, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, TABaker!

dsatwork

Justin_in_Seattle said:

My family is deciding among the above options. All can be towed by a TV with a 3500lb rating. It's a touch choice. Now that the Tab has grown they are in a very, very competitive segment of the market. Currently we're leaning toward a Tab 400 or a Lance 1575. 

My buddy has a Lance 1575 and loves it by the way, but he couldn't tow it with his Ford Escape EcoBoost that is rated at #3500 lbs. Here in SoCal  it would slow down to 25 mph climbing hills because it was heating up. Ultimately he sold it and purchased a Nissan Frontier with approximately 6500 lbs tow capacity.

KBaggins1

The T@B really is not that aerodynamic. We have an 18' fibreglas boat and trailer that weighs in at 2500 lbs and we get better mileage towing the boat than the T@B. If the T@B had the pointy end towards the front it would be much more efficient. The boat benefits from a low overall height that lowers the frontal area. TheT@B tows heavy for its weight where something like an Airstream tows like a lighter trailer. We almost bought an Rpod until we read mileage figures for it. Teardrop shape and 2800 lbs did not equal good mileage. We dropped in to the Alto factory sales centre near Quebec City and the rep told us that reports from their customers showed that the fixed roof model got better mileage than the pop up. Really nice high tech trailers they make and if we wanted something a little bigger I would lean to one of those. 

Justin_in_Seattle

Speaking of frontal area, I ran a calculation for the Tab 400 vs Lance 1575. (This is just a raw "cross section" calculation, ignoring the relative aerodynamic shapes of the trailers.)

Lance 1575 frontal area:  69.1 square feet  (85" width x 117" height)
Tab 400 frontal area:  56.6 square feet  (84" width x 97" height)

That means the frontal area of the Lance is about 22% bigger. Does anyone know if that would make much difference in towing?

ScottG

PXLated said:

My brother bought an rPod - wanted more space. Paid roughly the same as I paid for the T@B but the quality really is cheap.

This may be an unpopular sentiment, but I'm with PXL's brother. I love the T@B--and paid more for it than I probably would have for a base rPod--precisely because I wanted something that was so efficiently compact. The premium upcharge on 400's, Airstreams, and the like is harder to swallow when there are functionally equivalent options out there for half the price.

It's a personal thing, though, to each their own!

KBaggins1

Justin_in_Seattle said:

Speaking of frontal area, I ran a calculation for the Tab 400 vs Lance 1575. (This is just a raw "cross section" calculation, ignoring the relative aerodynamic shapes of the trailers.)

Lance 1575 frontal area:  69.1 square feet  (85" width x 117" height)
Tab 400 frontal area:  56.6 square feet  (84" width x 97" height)

That means the frontal area of the Lance is about 22% bigger. Does anyone know if that would make much difference in towing?

A large frontal area will usually equate to a higher coefficient of drag,so the Lance would probably use more fuel with the same TV. The other thing that causes a lot of drag is height off the ground and clutter on the roof and sides. The Lance has a lot of clutter and it sits up fairly high so I think the T@B 400 would tow easier.But the Lance looks like a really nice trailer with a lot of good features.

ChanW

Pointy end to the front?

I thought I remembered learning something (years ago) about raindrop shape being more aerodynamic, because the round end trails off to the pointy end... No?

KBaggins1 said:

The T@B really is not that aerodynamic. We have an 18' fibreglas boat and trailer that weighs in at 2500 lbs and we get better mileage towing the boat than the T@B. If the T@B had the pointy end towards the front it would be much more efficient. The boat benefits from a low overall height that lowers the frontal area. TheT@B tows heavy for its weight where something like an Airstream tows like a lighter trailer. We almost bought an Rpod until we read mileage figures for it. Teardrop shape and 2800 lbs did not equal good mileage. We dropped in to the Alto factory sales centre near Quebec City and the rep told us that reports from their customers showed that the fixed roof model got better mileage than the pop up. Really nice high tech trailers they make and if we wanted something a little bigger I would lean to one of those. 

KBaggins1

You want the large area to the back. Tapering down the back causes turbulence. Take a look at all the newer small British and European trailers and you mostly see the big end is at the back of the trailer and tapers to the front. The entrance doors are mostly at the back because there is not enough room at the front for a door. Since they tow these trailers with small cars a lot, aerodynamics is very important.Do a google on the Kamm tail design. The raindrop theory sounds like it would make sense till you think about it. A drop of water falling at a hundred miles an hour give or take becomes shaped like that because of gravity and wind resistance. A great website to look at all the Euro stuff is Practical Caravan , lots of fun videos and reviews.     

Nomad

mradams77 - You don't have any strong "opinions" I see :-)

Nomad

mradams77 - Guess you won't be getting one :-) ... Some like it.

ericnliz

mradams77, Wow, tell us how you really feel. I think NuCamp should be given at least a little credit for their design. A lot of the input for the design came from this forum, and was incorporated because of the feedback they received here. Please bear in mind this is the first 400 model they have built, and I feel constructive criticism would be a lot more helpful than just blasting them, don't you? Your feedback would probably be taken a lot more seriously in a more diplomatic manner. Just my humble opinion. 

Justin_in_Seattle

mradams77 said:

This new version looks so stripped down and stark! Way to wreck a beautiful European design!  Where is the color? Where is the style?! And that hideous bathroom! Wow. The European LT400 had one of the most gorgeous bathrooms ever made in a caravan.  Who designed the new bathroom? The janitor from the local hospital? It's cold. It's dull. It's boring.  In fact, the entire thing is a big fat bore.

Remember the nuCamp Tab 400's we're seeing online are mostly prototypes from last year. Despite that, my wife and I both like the way they look. And as others have mentioned, there will be some refinements based on feedback from forum members.

My only serious complaint is there are a few too many different colors, shapes, and textures throughout the interior in the prototypes. 

From a practical standpoint the nuCamp 400 bathroom is a huge upgrade. Sure the Euro model 400 bathroom is pretty, but in the Euro 400 you have to take care not to get the wood-surrounded bathroom too wet. Plus the nuCamp 400 bathroom has a normal size fold-down sink instead of the itty bitty airplane-style sink in the Euro model 400.

But still, the nuCamp 400 interior is tasteful and looks better than 95% of other trailer interiors, most of which resemble a utilitarian Craftsman house from the 1930's (with the exception of Airstream), IMHO.

"De gustibus non est disputandum"
  -- Roman proverb
("In matters of taste, there can be no dispute")

argem

got back from seeing the t@b400 that Haydocy RV had at the Columbus home/garden show. thought it was very impressive especially when parked across from the new small airstream. the differences were quite apparent. the t@b was so much better made and the overall interior at a much higher end. there was a larger interest in t@b judging from amount of people waiting to get in the T@b. We ended up speaking to a lot of people about the t@b experience in general. Hope we made some new believers. 

Nomad

Kind of funny, I was a designer for 35 years, now retired, and didn't like the european design. So there ya go, can't please everyone and even designers don't agree :-)

TabberJohn

mradams77 said:

Let me add something to what I've been told is a strongly opinionated post.  

I believe the comments were referring to how you strongly voiced your opinion, not that your opinion was overly biased.
I'm sure there are others who love Euro design, but it's probably a minority for the US market.
To us traditionalists the Euro looks like a mix of disco and space age. Nice to visit perhaps, but wouldn't want to live there.
IMO nüCamp would have made a mistake launching a new product line with euro-styling for the first model. Maybe that will be next down the pipe.

Cyclonic

PXLated said:

Kind of funny, I was a designer for 35 years, now retired, and didn't like the european design. So there ya go, can't please everyone and even designers don't agree :-)

Yup, it is one of those things, to each their own.  I would much rather have the 400 with a more American/Amish looking interior.  I like the look of the real wood finishes rather then the curvy, bland European look.

Ratkity

What has been the most impressive and consistent thing that is so rare in a company of any kind is the customer responsiveness of nuCamp folks. Just overwhelmingly positive. I know this has nothing specifically to do with the 400 in particular, but I just had to say that. Now about that heated bathroom... wowza!!

Me_and_My_Dog

I too prefer the wood and the Amish vibe of my 2007 T@B. But the opportunity to have a high quality T@B with room to bring along a fellow traveler and have separate bunks is quite appealing. It would change my life. I'm already imagining how to run a curtain between the two sleeping areas for added privacy. I'm looking forward to the modifications this creative community makes to the new 400s to bring the warmth we seek. I'll be following along.

jkjenn

I am guessing that the design reflects where they see the largest market opportunity for the demographic(s) they are targeting can be found. Personally, and somewhat surprisingly, I prefer the Euro design, yet, I can appreciate what the NuCamp folks have done with the 400. It is apparent to me that they were trying to balance design, the need for storage, feedback, and market research.

You can't please everyone, and ultimately, it will fall back on them to turn a profit from their design. To date, they have had little difficulty seller trailers and I doubt they will have difficulty selling the 400.

SweetlyHome

Is there any real collaboration, formal or informal, between Tabbert Germany and NuCamp?  I get the impression that NuCamp only takes inspiration from the European design, thus the offering is what NuCamp believes will fit the North American market.  I was just looking at photos of both T@b sizes on the Tabbert website and a UK dealership website.  It is interesting that the dimpled outside trim panels aren't shown any longer.

skwhee

Thank you, Michigan Mike! As noted earlier in this thread, the design team asked us to road test the T@B 400 prototype back in December. At the end of the test we reported to them and suggested some changes to the design. Photos of the 400 at the Austin RV show and for sale in Lenoir NC reveal that the team has already made some changes that we suggested. We fully expect as T@B-400s hit the road and owners report back, that the team will consider their suggestions as they continue to evolve the design. In our experience the folks at nüCamp are very responsive to their end users and are on a constant quest to provide the very best experience for their customers.

KBaggins1

I just watched a video where a fellow walks you through the new 400. I like the way it looks but for us it has a major flaw: one person has to crawl over the other at night to make a trip to the bathroom. This trailer would be great for one person but not for a couple. So for us, we will stick with the small T@B. If it would stop raining around here for more than 5 minutes we might even get our rig out of the shed tomorrow. Snow is all gone now.

Cyclonic

Look what we found at Beckley's today.  They just got it yesterday, with three more on order.  Taking orders but not selling this one just yet.  Priced around 35.