New 400 Model T@B?

Lannette

Did the original t@b go through multiple prototypes and proofing. I am a fairly new t@b admirer and know nothing of the original launch. Is it common for these companies to create a new product step by step rather than offer them fait accompli?

ericnliz

Cyclonic, I think [and hope] they did the prototype for honest feed-back. I agree with you there are many new functions, and innovations that are really great, and quite possibly taken into account from the feedback that has already been put forward from folks that have used the T@B trailers in all types of situations and applications, from just camping in them, to working out of them, and living in them full time. All the aesthetic things are really pretty simple "fixes", and hopefully the functional aspects are given precedence. Guess we'll have to see. Hopefully, as in the 320 models folks are given options for things they do and don't care for.   

ScottG

Lannette said:

Did the original t@b go through multiple prototypes and proofing. I am a fairly new t@b admirer and know nothing of the original launch. Is it common for these companies to create a new product step by step rather than offer them fait accompli?

The T@B was introduced to the U.S. market by Dutchman in (I think) 2004. Dutchman had bought the U.S. rights from the European manufacturer, who had been in business for some time. One of the units Dutchman brought from Europe for a prototype is still out there, and was recently for sale on Craigslist. Appearance wise, it's pretty much the same as the Pleasant Valley T@Bs we have today.

T@B history was discussed in a couple older threads. It's worth searching around if you are interested in that sort of thing.

Lannette

Sorry Scott. I should have searched before asking. I'll check it out.

ScottG

Lannette said:

Sorry Scott. I should have searched before asking. I'll check it out.

No apologies needed--it was a good question, and I'm only inferring an answer based on T@B history. It's a history I suspect is a bit unusual, so I'm not sure what the standard industry practice is with regard to new models. Given the dizzying array of camper models out there--and the rate at which appear, evolve, and disappear--I'd guess there is not a whole lot of deliberation behind most designs!

Verna

A larger fridge with a freezer area, but I didn't not the size.

The headboard with lights (these will be changed because they are not strong enough of goosenecks)

Door of fridge with adjustable shelves 

Headboard next to CPAP cubbyhole

Two burner stove, but this may not be the final model (keep your fingers crossed for a 3-burner model!)

The new rims. 


***Correction on one of my previous photos****. The TV is at the foot of the bed (Not the headboard). I changed the description to reflect this. 

By the way, one of the reasons Michigan Mike and I were at this Dealer only RV show, was to give feedback to the main NucampRV designer. We gave a lot of of suggestions, and we are sure that many of our suggestions will be incorporated.  More 12V, USB and 120V outlets, a smaller table to enable more sitting depth, and others. I have asked since I left the show if the factory is watching this post. Yes, they are.  

And I will give you my opinion:  I like it.  If you see it in person, the gray fabric on the walls blends in well with the gray wood on the wall, along with the floor color.  The various curves from the inlay on the upper cabinets, to the rounded lower cabinet make for such a neat and very unique look. The birch wood on parts of the T@B 400 actually gives it a contrast.  There will be changes made in the amount of fabric since seeing it in person is very different from seeing it even in 3D on the computer screen. The actual inside seems to be very bright.

I will add a couple of photos of the headboard--a place to plug in our electronics and a shelf to put them on. The TV will be large enough to be seen from the bed or the from the dinette. No worries about floor damage because the floor incorportates Azdel, the composite material that has no wood in it. The new floor covering, while I can't remember the name of it, is what is used in the Airstreams. It looks to be very easy to take care of. 

While I never thought I would like a large window over my bed, I would love this stargazer type of window. The plastic trim around the window is for the cellular window shade--if you don't like the plastic, you'll need to come up with your own window treatment. 

A new thing for me, is that the window shades are reversed from what I have. The blackout shades are on the bottom and the screens are at the top. It gives more privacy, but you can still have a breeze coming through. 

I like the angled placement of the toilet. It gives more room to those who need it. I love the cubbies for storage, and I appreciate the fact that a shower curtain will keep part of the bathroom dry. The marine shower head with the adjustable height is a marine product--high quality and built to withstand the sea, so it should withstand our usage. The bathroom is actually roomy, compared to our wet baths now.  For those of you who are taller, with this bathroom in the middle of the T@B 400, you will have over 6' of height (I didn't measure it, so I don't have an exact measurement, although I was verbally told 6'5" a month ago). 

I love the inside of the door!  This is not cheesy cheap plastic, either. This is as heavy of a plastic as we find in our cars and trucks. We have a discussion of "where do you put your trash?"  Now you would have a place. Plus it's plastic so it is easily cleaned. There is no porthole window, but the long slender window has its own cuteness factor. 

The porthole windows "may" have the same type of window covering as we have now, but I asked for a heavier plastic--my suggestion, so that shadows of those in the bathroom are not visible from outside. (I'm entitled to my opinion as each of you are.). We'll see what the designers comes up with. 

If you were to go to an RV show and browse the rest of the RV industry's smaller Camper's, you would see the T@B 400 is still going to stand out as a very unique camper. It will sleep 1 to 3 adults or 2 people in the queen sized bed and one or two children in the dinette. While it will not have as much of the plastic trim that we are used to, there will still be some plastic trim on The outside.  The interior is different from what we're used to, but the same Amish-built quality that we're used to is there. 

jcfaber1

Thanks for the update.  It is also good to hear that they are following this thread.

jkjenn

Verna said:

The new rims. 
***Correction on one of my previous photos****. The TV is at the foot of the bed (Not the headboard). I changed the description to reflect this. 
By the way, one of the reasons Michigan Mike and I were at this Dealer only RV show, was to give feedback to the main NucampRV designer. We gave a lot of of suggestions, and we are sure that many of our suggestions will be incorporated.  More 12V, USB and 120V outlets, a smaller table to enable more sitting depth, and others. I have asked since I left the show if the factory is watching this post. Yes, they are.  
And I will give you my opinion:  I like it.  If you see it in person, the gray fabric on the walls blends in well with the gray wood on the wall, along with the floor color.  The various curves from the inlay on the upper cabinets, to the rounded lower cabinet make for such a neat and very unique look. The birch wood on parts of the T@B 400 actually gives it a contrast.  There will be changes made in the amount of fabric since seeing it in person is very different from seeing it even in 3D on the computer screen. The actual inside seems to be very bright.
I will add a couple of photos of the headboard--a place to plug in our electronics and a shelf to put them on. The TV will be large enough to be seen from the bed or the from the dinette. No worries about floor damage because the floor incorportates Azdel, the composite material that has no wood in it. The new floor covering, while I can't remember the name of it, is what is used in the Airstreams. It looks to be very easy to take care of. 
While I never thought I would like a large window over my bed, I would love this stargazer type of window. The plastic trim around the window is for the cellular window shade--if you don't like the plastic, you'll need to come up with your own window treatment. 
A new thing for me, is that the window shades are reversed from what I have. The blackout shades are on the bottom and the screens are at the top. It gives more privacy, but you can still have a breeze coming through. 
I like the angled placement of the toilet. It gives more room to those who need it. I love the cubbies for storage, and I appreciate the fact that a shower curtain will keep part of the bathroom dry. The marine shower head with the adjustable height is a marine product--high quality and built to withstand the sea, so it should withstand our usage. The bathroom is actually roomy, compared to our wet baths now.  For those of you who are taller, with this bathroom in the middle of the T@B 400, you will have over 6' of height (I didn't measure it, so I don't have an exact measurement, although I was verbally told 6'5" a month ago). 
I love the inside of the door!  This is not cheesy cheap plastic, either. This is as heavy of a plastic as we find in our cars and trucks. We have a discussion of "where do you put your trash?"  Now you would have a place. Plus it's plastic so it is easily cleaned. There is no porthole window, but the long slender window has its own cuteness factor. 
The porthole windows "may" have the same type of window covering as we have now, but I asked for a heavier plastic--my suggestion, so that shadows of those in the bathroom are not visible from outside. (I'm entitled to my opinion as each of you are.). We'll see what the designers comes up with. 
If you were to go to an RV show and browse the rest of the RV industry's smaller Camper's, you would see the T@B 400 is still going to stand out as a very unique camper. It will sleep 1 to 3 adults or 2 people in the queen sized bed and one or two children in the dinette. While it will not have as much of the plastic trim that we are used to, there will still be some plastic trim on The outside.  The interior is different from what we're used to, but the same Amish-built quality that we're used to is there.

Thanks, @Verna - I also loved the inside of the door. Incredibly useful and it looked solid. That is wasted space, otherwise!

I don't mind the birch/grey wood, too much. I don't love it with the white counter, I'd stick with grey, there. I also love the new rims.

I think almost everything seems like an upgrade and I think that is awesome. I really love all of the cubbies, too. Anyone who has spent a lot of time in a T@b appreciates all the help available to organize! I think if you had to sum up the best part of this design it would be, "Storage! Storage! Storage!"

RE: porthole window covers - I would be fine with the type we have now and agree about the heavier material needed. The Euro versions use a Roman Shade type of cover for the front window. It adds some style and function.

RE; the plastic trim, as someone who likes to change things up, I really like the decal idea and hope they make some available in a print on demand type of deal so owners can change their style. I can totally like without the plastic. Actually, it would be cool if there was a graphic design or decal shop that worked with PV to make it easy for owners to order customer graphics, too.

The new fridge looks like the fridge in the Bambi/Basecamp Airstreams. It looks very nice and I would love a freezer.

One last idea. They could build a storage compartment into the top of the propane cover to store the sewer hose or shore power cable. I see one of the newer Airstreams has that and it looks very nice.

Also, the larger AGM battery and placement are excellent.

I am really impressed with the amount of user feedback you already see in the prototype and can't wait to see what the final version looks like. Here is my "hoping for" wish  list:

 1) Ultraleather option - for those of us with 4 legged friends. The Bambis all come with Ultraleather now because it was almost always what was ordered.
 2) An axle/option for more ground clearance - for those of us who go where you need it.
 3) Some 5v USB ports, to support fast charging and larger devices
 4) Microphone for BT phone connection
 5) Back-up camera option
 6) I wouldn't use, but a lot of people would like to have a solar monitor included, as well. I will stick to my custom stuff.
 7) I haven't really seen it, but I am curious when home automation or Smart home type technology will really start showing up in RVs?
 8) A "do not disturb " sliding sign for the door - I have had people rapping on the door loudly when I was in the shower or on a conference call.
 9) Move the light away from the door, but point the direction towards the door. not sure if possible, but would help with keeping bugs away from the door.
10) Make the below the floor storage in the closet, or another spot, lockable.

Verna

@jkjenn, I bought one of those office signs that have "I'll be back at..." With a clock and the other side says "come on in" (or something like that).  I'll stick it on the outside of my door with a suction cup when I need it. 

DebWild

I agree with everything Jenn (jkjenn) has mentioned above and I cannot wait to order one...

Spruce1

We like the overall concept/design of the 400.  My wife summed it up nicely; "it looks just bigger enough".  Not a big fan of the graphics on the outside and the square window screens and blinds on the inside but I like the direction NuCamp is taking.  We'll be giving the 400 serious consideration should it come to market.

Photomom

They may have been floating a few trial balloons to gauge people's reactions and get some feedback. If that's the case I'd say it has been successful.

Whether we want a bigger T@B or not, it's in all our best interests for the new model to be a roaring success for Nucamp.

Lannette

I'll be honest. We would love to buy a t@b as long as the fit and finish is true to the original t@b but based on this prototype we are leaning toward airstream. Probably a fully loaded airstream basecamp. 

Lannette

I know it is in your best interest that this be a success. I think it's also important that nucamp know that their prototype is turning new customers away.

jkjenn

Lannette said:

I'll be honest. We would love to buy a t@b as long as the fit and finish is true to the original t@b but based on this prototype we are leaning toward airstream. Probably a fully loaded airstream basecamp. 

To be frank, making judgements about fit and finish from a prototype is a mistake. It appears that people are equating a prototype with a final product in some regards, and that is not the intent of a prototype. Pleasant Valley and Little Guy have broken traditional manufacturing barriers by being transparent with customers, even these forums, sponsored by LG is really ground-breaking compared to other manufacturers.

From the fountain of all truth, Wikipedia, Prototype:

An array of prototypes leading to the final design.

A prototype is an early sample, model, or release of a product built to test a concept or process or to act as a thing to be replicated or learned from.[1] It is a term used in a variety of contexts, including semantics, design, electronics, and software programming. A prototype is generally used to evaluate a new design to enhance precision by system analysts and users. Prototyping serves to provide specifications for a real, working system rather than a theoretical one.[2] In some design workflow models, creating a prototype (a process sometimes called materialization) is the step between the formalization and the evaluation of an idea.[3]

The word prototype derives from the Greek πρωτότυπον prototypon, "primitive form", neutral of πρωτότυπος prototypos, "original, primitive", from πρῶτος protos, "first" and τύπος typos, "impression".[1][4]

Lannette

I'm commenting on the prototype as presented. My opinion may change if future prototypes and a finished product are presented. As much as present owners want to love and have others love this prototype, I think it's important to let the powers that be know that this potential owner isn't embracing it as is. After all, won't potential owners have as big if not bigger ability to make this a success than present owners, who may...or may not buy this model? It's important for the company to hear from those who haven't yet drunk, or perhaps gotten drunk on, the t@b cool-aid.

marknjudy

Wow... 

Lannette

I'm sorry but I'm just being honest. I feel any negative comments are being discouraged. Two months ago I was sold on a t@b. Now I'm not. I think it's in the interest of the company to know why. Obviously present owners do not. This actually makes me even less likely to purchase a t@b. I'll keep my future thoughts to myself. 

jkjenn

Lannette said:

I'm commenting on the prototype as presented. My opinion may change if future prototypes and a finished product are presented. As much as present owners want to love and have others love this prototype, I think it's important to let the powers that be know that this potential owner isn't embracing it as is. After all, won't potential owners have as big if not bigger ability to make this a success than present owners, who may...or may not buy this model? It's important for the company to hear from those who haven't yet drunk, or perhaps gotten drunk on, the t@b cool-aid.

Lannette said:

I'm sorry but I'm just being honest. I feel any negative comments are being discouraged. Two months ago I was sold on a t@b. Now I'm not. I think it's in the interest of the company to know why. Obviously present owners do not. This actually makes me even less likely to purchase a t@b. I'll keep my future thoughts to myself. 

Nope, not discouraged, just pointing out that the design will likely go through several iterations until a final design is reached. I don't think it's wise to make a decision based on a prototype, even if you love every detail.

Lannette

Jenn, I never said our decision was made. Only that we were leaning in other directions given the current prototype. The ball is in nucamp's court. They can win us back or not. Still, it's important that they know that as of this rendering, they've lost us.

Machak88

Bottom line, the manufacturer should either go back to a "true" American t@b interior or move to a sleek European-style interior. The key would be to avoid a haphazard mix of the two styles like the current prototype.

jdargis

I think the 400 is the next step for an existing T@B owner, or a future upscale teardrop owner,  wanting a seperate bed, bath and dining area.  My wife and I were anxiously awaiting the model:
Likes:
seperate living areas
closet and shelving
retaing teardrop shape
larger refrigerator
able to tow with existing TV
more storage is always great

dislikes:
folding sink in bathroom
skip the fashion bathroom, and line the walls with plastic liner for proper wet bath use.
(see Airstream, or any upscale motor home)
larger black tank, I think the customer looking at this unit will not be your typical boondocking customers

additions:
Lagun mount for table, no hardware below the table
lighter finish on interior surfaces. dark is not rich looking in a small unit 

As it stands now, because the increase overall size of the 400, we always like to keep our unit in storage, we now need to have to get a larger unit, which puts us in the market for other trailers.  If PV doesn't improve the interior looks,  we would buy a Lance 1475 trailer, approximately same weight and probably near the same tongue weight.  Also, a dry bath and larger holding tanks.  What keeps us wanting the 400 is the quality of the build of PV products!

Products from the past per quality:
1 PV
2 Winnebago
3 Fleetwood
4 Coachmen
5 A-liner

Sorry for the length,
still loving our T@B!

Norbert1223

I hated all the different wall colors.  Those dark grey walls are too dark for a small trailer and the storage cubbies with the wood looked totally unfinished.  I thought the sink in the bathroom looked huge, though it is nice it folds up.  I agree with Jenn that way to much going on with different textures and colors.  If they could go back to the classy sleek colors of the European 400 or the Sofitel colors I would be very happy.  It is definitely on my list to upgrade but I'll wait until they have a couple of years in production and changes.  I'm going to have to go look at that Cirrus camper, my first impression was "yuck".  We had an Arctic Fox which I loved.  

Nomad

Prototype or no, I think the 400 as shown so far has not met current user expectations based on the T@Bs we own - at least from the comments I've read. Current T@Bs are clean, clean, clean. Everything is well coordinated. The 400 prototype is not yet. It does have some nice welcome features but needs a bunch of refinements. Will be interesting to see if it progresses. In some ways I'm concerned in that the current T@B had a great design base from the Dutchman days and pretty much hasn't changed design wise - Yes, lots of additions/refinements but still true to it's core design. I don't think the 400 prototype carries that thru. To a certain degree, I think they are trying too hard rather than sticking to what makes a T@B a T@B but just making it bigger.
As far as who would buy this I'm not sure it's us current owners. We've decided (not everyone of course) that the current T@B size fits the bill for our needs. I think it's for those like my one brother that bought an rPod - sacrificed quality for space. If this had been available in the same configs as the current T@Bs he'd be rolling a T@B.
I don't agree with Jenn that we should hold back just because it's a first prototype.  If anything, now is the time to be the most critical. As prototypes get further developed, the more locked in the design becomes.

ScottG

I agree with PXL's points. I bought a T@B (virtually on the spot) because of its a) small size; b) efficient, minimalist layout; and c) clean classic looks. I knew nothing about quality, as my only point of comparison was a tent.

For my current purposes, I have no interest in larger camper. If I did, I'd probably save some coin and buy an r-Pod or similar knock off. PV may well realize that I'm not the target buyer for the 400, and--to their credit as a business--may be looking to expand their customer base into the much broader (and presumably more competitive) mid-sized market.

Of course, as with any business decision, there's some gambling involved. As many of the comments here indicate, you just can't please everybody!

ericnliz

Thanks for the updates Verna!

ericnliz

I have to agree with PXL about the comments being made for the prototype. If we don't voice our likes and dislikes, who will hear us. The fact that the company was, in fact transparent enough to show us the prototype, I feel, was to get the type of feedback they need now to make the changes BEFORE final production. Hope fully, they will also give us the same kind of latitude for any options they may offer. I think they were very smart in their decision to open a line of communication with not only current owners, but potential buyers as well. Good marketing!

jcfaber1

It looks like the fridge is a 3 cubic foot 2 or 3 way Norcold.  Having a larger 12 volt option 4.2 or 4.7 cu ft in the same space would be great.  I too would like very simple clean lines.  I do not like the "big ugly box on wheels" look with the graphics.  Lots of fun reading everyone's thoughts.

ericnliz

Lannette, Personally I would like to thank you for your comments on the new prototype. I think it is just as important for the company to read the negative aspects as well as the positive ones. As a potential future customer, your comments should be given the the weight as those of us that are already owners of the T@B products. Please continue to follow the prototype process, and make comments, your voice needs to be heard as well!

Michigan_Mike

I saw the 400 this past week in Elkhart, IN and spoke to NuCamp's designer Allan Miller.  The company rolled out both prototype units and obviously are looking for constructive ideas/suggestions and with that said Verna and I spent considerable time going over the unit, offering up ideas and potential changes and feedback from a user perspective.  And Allan discussed the company's perspective (e.g., the graphics, interior design, internal/external components, etc.) on designing the unit and noted that the 400 was designed after (and closely resembles) the European model and that they will be looking closely at all feedback, suggestions, ideas and will certainly do what they can to accommodate change via user/customer input.  

With the above said, I will ask (as an admin and member of the forum moderating team) that people abide by the forum rules and that you fashion/post your comments and any future commentary based on the intent/breadth in which this forum was created via our forum rules.  I understand that we all have differences, that the new 400 was highly anticipated and looked to as somewhat of a dawning of a new age for the Pleasant Valley/NuCamp trailer company, that many people have been excited/are passionate about the trailer, and were looking forward to a larger unit that closely resembled the Euro model, etc. but also ask that you temper your comments and energy accordingly.