Permanent 200 watt Flexible Solar Install

dsatwork

Grocery List

Eternabond RoofSeal Gray 2" x 50'

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ER9P4FQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

One Pair 15 Feet Black + 15 Feet Red 10 Gauge Solar Panel Extension Cable Wire MC4 Connector

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D7VBJNA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Victron BlueSolar 75/15 MPPT Charge Controller with VE.Direct Bluetooth Dongle

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07235YXT2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Suaoki 100W 18V 12V Solar Panel Charger SunPower Cell Ultra Thin Flexible with MC4 Connector Charging for RV Boat Cabin Tent Car(Compatibility with 18V and Below Devices)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DXYNGA0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

2 packs of 1/2 in. x 7 ft. Protective Wire Wrap

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-x-7-ft-protective-wire-wrap-66986.html

1 pack 3/8 in. x 10 ft. Protective Wire Wrap

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-x-10-ft-protective-wire-wrap-66987.html

10 gauge automotive Red and Black wire (enough to run from the controller to the battery.

This permeant solar installation was based on needing solar for a wide variety of reasons. One of the primary reasons it that we want to keep our two 100AH AGM Batteries charged while we are on the road and run the 3-way fridge on 12volt. Our 2016 Kia Sorento has a 110-amp alternator and it just can’t keep up. We never dropped below 12.5 volts with our battery bank but there may be times when we get to camp and need to be at 100%. This should help considerably.

I decided to use Eternabond RoofSeal as mounting solutions because I believed it could provide a very clean looking installation. I decided to run the two 100 watt panels in series because if you have a smart MPPT controller it’s more efficient. I chose the Victron BlueSalar 75/15 because it has the optional Bluetooth dongle which makes it very easy to see what’s going on.

View from back of Tab

Panel behind fantastic fan

MC4 connectors and panel layout

Front View extra with of tape on front edge

Plastic protective wrap wire run with zip tied to handle cover

Plastic protective wrap wire run to tongue box

Controller mounted inside the tongue box

Victron Connect Android App readout

Feel Free to  ask questions, I'm sure I have left out a ton of stuff.

Sandiegogal

Great job, honey!

dsatwork

Today's production after 7 1/2 hours with the 3-way fridge on 12v the entire time. Very hot day 93 degrees full socal sun... the batteries started a full charge and ended up at about 12.7 so it seems that we have accomplished one goal.... we shouldn't have any trouble keeping up with the 12v draw from the 3way fridge on the road. Oh and by the way even with diminishing sunlight, the Tab was back up to 12.9 by 7pm.

The biggest issue now, will be keeping things cool in the fridge, as the outside temperature rises during the day. The temperature in the fridge started at 28 degrees on AC and ended up at 65 degrees after 7 1/2 hours on 12v. But, I only checked it once at 4pm, so I'm not sure when it hit that temperature.

Newfisher

Great job on the solar and the choice of components.
100% agreed the Norcold 3 way isn't efficient on 12v. I'm planning on going to a Truckfridge or Edgestar compressor driven style.

Sharon_is_SAM

Dsatatwork, add some frozen quart milk jugs and it will help keep the Norcold cool.

ericnliz

@dsatwork, Nice job! Love seeing all the ingenuity and creativeness that folks come up with here. Please keep us posted on how the panels perform, and any pluses, and/or minuses that you notice. I've always been curious about the flexible panels and how they would perform in the long run. Thanks again for the post!

dsatwork

Could anyone validate my math here? Trying to understand the real world use of solar.

Norcold N180.3 uses 11.7 amps per hour 7.5 x 11.7 = 87.75 Amps used

Total solar output 7.5 hours was 860 Watt Hours 860 / 12 = 71.66 Amps back into the system or 71.66 / 7.5 hours the panels produced 9.55 Amps per hour.

dsatwork

dsatwork said:

Could anyone validate my math here? Trying to understand the real world use of solar.

Norcold N180.3 uses 11.7 amps per hour 7.5 x 11.7 = 87.75 Amps used

Total solar output 7.5 hours was 860 Watt Hours 860 / 12 = 71.66 Amps back into the system or 71.66 / 7.5 hours the panels produced 9.55 Amps per hour.

@ScottG @Michigan_Mike does this sound right to you guys?

Michigan_Mike

I'm certainly not a solar expert or go to by any means but it looks like you're on the right path in estimating your power consumption and solar power generated.  Obviously this changes with sun angle, available sunlight throughout the day and via power usage.  Here is a link and site that might help and there are discussions with helpful information here too.  Your setup looks great and it sounds like you are all set in your ability to camp and be self sufficient off grid!  Congratulations as these projects are fun and appreciate your documentation and photos!

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/solar-calculator.html

ScottG

@dsatwork, I'm also still learning when it comes to solar related numbers, but on the surface your calculations seem reasonable--particularly where they are consistent with your actual observations.

It is a little discouraging that the fridge still got up to 65F, but that doesn't appear to be a power supply issue. I'm even less familiar with the use of the Norcold on 12V, so I can't say if that is normal or not.

Thanks for the info--keep the observations coming!

jkjenn

Great job! 

Frankonsand

Really nice job, considering copying as I've been looking for a similar solution to the identical problem! 
The Norcold is what it is, I've learned to accept its inefficiencies, we freeze a six pack of water for the trip "out" sometimes helps to solve the power consumption problem too. Again great job!

dsatwork

Thank you all for kind words. We all have a different way of approaching these kind of projects, I learned a lot from others and hope my solutions will inspire others to get outside their comfort zone.....this project certainly did push me....just know if I can do it so can you.

Trailpixie

[future T@B owner here]

I hadn't thought about the battery and solar issues around the refrigerator. I know they are 3-way refrigerators and on propane they work quite well, but I never thought about the fact that you can't use propane while towing.  It also never occurred to me that the tow vehicle wouldn't be able to keep up with enough DC power to the trailer, so the trailer batteries would discharge...so you arrive with drained batteries. We like to wildcat, so this could be a big issue for us.

It seems like the simplest solution is frozen milk jugs like @SAM mentions.  We always bring some gallon milk jugs for drinking water, so it won't be hard to freeze one or more before going (not even sure gallons jugs would fit). It looks like our Yeti cooler won't be obsolete after all.

The newest T@Bs have 150 watts of optional solar panels. That sounds like a must-have.

dsatwork

Trailpixie said:

[future T@B owner here]

I hadn't thought about the battery and solar issues around the refrigerator. I know they are 3-way refrigerators and on propane they work quite well, but I never thought about the fact that you can't use propane while towing.  It also never occurred to me that the tow vehicle wouldn't be able to keep up with enough DC power to the trailer, so the trailer batteries would discharge...so you arrive with drained batteries. We like to wildcat, so this could be a big issue for us.

It seems like the simplest solution is frozen milk jugs like @SAM mentions.  We always bring some gallon milk jugs for drinking water, so it won't be hard to freeze one or more before going (not even sure gallons jugs would fit). It looks like our Yeti cooler won't be obsolete after all.

The newest T@Bs have 150 watts of optional solar panels. That sounds like a must-have.

It won't necessarily be drained and there are tow vehicles that can keep up leave you with  a fully charged battery when you get to camp. The problem I have with the frozen milk jug idea is that these refrigerators aren't that big to start with 1.8 cf and I'm not about to give up any of that space for ice. But that's just me. I know lots of people do that regularly and it works great for them.

dsatwork

@Trailpixie The other issue right now is the refrigerator keeping up in the heat. I'm convinced that adding an auxiliary fan to the newer models with a side vent will help with tremendously. I also purchased an inside fan to circulate air and this is proving to be a very promising improvement as it doesn't take up that much space and will run for 30 days on two D size batteries. My initial test are with the refrigerator on show power and nothing inside but it's keeping the fridge at about 40 to 45 degrees on medium compared to having to have it on high without. I'm leaving tonight from San Diego up the 5 to through the hottest part of California in late July where we expect to see temps in the triple digits again. Like always, we'll be packing the fridge nice and tight with veggies and meat and other stuff we don't want to spoil

SweetlyHome

I don't have the AC numbers available at the moment but I have done the math.  On DC 12V x 11.7 = 140.4 Watts.  The same calculation on AC comes out with a higher wattage.  The fridge uses this wattage to boil water in the sealed cooling system, separates ammonia from the water if I remember correctly.  More watts, the more boiled water and more cooling takes place.  This is likely why the frig runs continuously on 12V, no thermostat.

dsatwork

SweetlyHome said:

I don't have the AC numbers available at the moment but I have done the math.  On DC 12V x 11.7 = 140.4 Watts.  The same calculation on AC comes out with a higher wattage.  The fridge uses this wattage to boil water in the sealed cooling system, separates ammonia from the water if I remember correctly.  More watts, the more boiled water and more cooling takes place.  This is likely why the frig runs continuously on 12V, no thermostat.

sounds right to me

Michigan_Mike

I agree on the ice, that it takes up space and once it melts you now have a jug of water that you either drink or carry along, use for washing hands/dishes, etc.  On long distance or extended trips it works fine on the first leg and you are back to square one once things heat up.  

Silver320

@dsatwork What inside refrig fan did you get?

DurangoTaB

Any concerns about hail?

Ratkity

DurangoTaB said:

Any concerns about hail?

Even when I had a full glass, non-flexible solar panel, it was hail-proof (according to the literature that came with it). I wasn't sure about rock-proof on the highway. >70 mph rocks are a little different than falling ice. I guess I need to qualify that my panel was mounted at an angle on the reverse LG teardrop. There was a perfect space for an 80W panel on the sloped front side. Install was a breeze. This panel was bought right as solar panels became affordable to the consumer market in 2011-ish. 10 yr warranty. Due to my -road-rock paranoia, I made a cover out of it with pink insulation. Made it with titebond glue and a great fabric (chili peppers). Held on with homemade buckle straps. The only time it was on there was when I was traveling. I probably didn't need it, but it made me feel better.

The flexible panels are totally cool - rocks and hail aren't an issue from what I've read and seen (I had one). Now I have a solar suitcase and the literature also says the glass is very resistant... hrm.. I wonder if it's resistant to clumsy people who trip over lines?

ericnliz

@Ratkity, I fell face-first on mine this last weekend when my knee went out while placing my 100 watt Renogy suitcase model out for the day. This happened on a gravel surface, and the only damage was a couple cosmetic scratches, and a little to my composure. The panels still perform as they did before the incident, very well. Me, still recovering from a wrenched back gained during the process of falling. Sometimes 'ya don't even have to trip over the lines, seems the 'ol well seasoned joints took over!!!

Ratkity

Ouch, ouch, ouch! @ericnliz.  Hope you aren't pestering Liz too much while you have your knee being iced and your back getting heat... all laid out on the couch looking pitiful. I have a feeling that pitiful look only worked once or twice. 

I got a "teak" wood mat for shower from Bed, Bath & Beyond that fits the shower cassette. I had to cut a corner off of it to accommodate a turn in the cassette. It's a great idea! No dirty feets in and out and then wanna to take a shower. No more stepping on the drain either. I'll show pictures once I finished sanding and putting more poly on it. 

druthazer

Two questions about 320.   
1.  any thoughts on installing one panel fore and aft on right-side of trailer roof to have a verticle area and the other right to left behind the vent?
2. Thoughts on best way to adhere to the tab roof?  

druthazer

@dsatwork     How did you attach the wire wrap running along roof trim?

Did you consider running the wires inside the colored trim along the corner of roof?  

dragonsdofly

@druthazer, @dsatwork has not been active on the forum since December, 2019. Their t@b has been sold and they have moved on. There are other threads on the forum covering the same or similar solar installations. Good luck with this and, resident experts, now is the time to chime in! Anyone out there who can give advice?

Sharon_is_SAM

@druthazer - did you see these threadS?  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/140403#Comment_140403

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10865/drilling-through-roof-for-solar-panel-cables

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10721/2018-320s-boondock-mods-and-diy-solar-install

dsatwork

druthazer said:

@dsatwork     How did you attach the wire wrap running along roof trim?

Did you consider running the wires inside the colored trim along the corner of roof?  

@d@druthazer i ran it along the molding to the battery box under eternibond tape that blended in nicely with the grey of the Tab. At the time at least one other had tried hiding it in the molding and I didn't like that look. 

jgram2

Ahhh! @dsatwork! Since you popped up, I’m curious to hear if you’ve made as many mods to your airstream as you did to your T@B?
If memory serves, @Dalehelman, a master moder, modder?, attributed many of his mods to you. The two of you are held in pretty high regard hereabouts.

dsatwork

jgram2 said:

Ahhh! @dsatwork! Since you popped up, I’m curious to hear if you’ve made as many mods to your airstream as you did to your T@B?
If memory serves, @Dalehelman, a master moder, modder?, attributed many of his mods to you. The two of you are held in pretty high regard hereabouts.

@jgram2 Thanks for the kind words, but I'm not and never was in the same class as @Dalehelman

The Airstream we purchased was quite heavily modified from the start see the attachment. But we did replace two 300 AH Lifeline AGM batteries with 3 100AH Battleborn lithium. This week I am replacing the Weboost Mobile 4G signal booster with Weboost latest offering the Drive Reach. We have lived in the Airstream full time for the last two years and purchased a lot in the Show Low, AZ White Mountains Vacation Village where I continue to work remotely.

There is an Tab Boondock here in the park that someone is storing next to their park model, it would be nice to know if they are on the forum. It is nice to hear from you all again, still consider the Tab community family.