Tab 400 - Weight-Distribution Hitch Not Recommended Due To C-Channel Construction

Awca12a

@BigGrover
Thank You.  Would you mind cross posting it on theT@B 400 2019 Tongue Weight post as well?
My replacement tongue scale should be coming in next week and I'll post there as well.
I'd be much happier not using any WD hitch.
How are you dealing with sway control?

[Deleted User]

Keep in mind the Boondock model is going to come in a bit heavier.  The GVWR for the Boondock is 3700lbs versus 3500 for the standard model.  Not sure any of the boondock weight would transfer to the tongue though as I think the extra weight is just the different axle and the larger tires.  

JEB

Awca12a said:

@BigGrover
Thank You.  Would you mind cross posting it on theT@B 400 2019 Tongue Weight post as well?
My replacement tongue scale should be coming in next week and I'll post there as well.
I'd be much happier not using any WD hitch.
How are you dealing with sway control?

Sway control is relatively easy, if you need it.  For about $50 you can install a friction-style sway bar.  They are a pain in that you have to remember to take them off before you back up.  But they are cheap and reasonably effective.

BigGrover

Awca12a will do. Since we don't boondock I am thinking about removing my lp tank if I can find a good plug for the hose.

[Deleted User]

If you are close on your max tongue weight (which is the issue for many people on this post) you could consider dropping your spare off the tongue and carrying it forward of the rear axle in your TV or not at all.  Good Sam Roadside Assistance will bring you a tire, etc.  You can also get a "Jack-E-Up" thingie that you can use to be able to easily totally take your jack off the trailer after you hook up to your TV.  I had this on my 320 because I couldn't open the back door on my Jeep after I was hooked up.  You could also use a smaller propane tank or none at all.  Of course you have to keep the 10-15% tongue weight and 60/40 ratios in mind to make sure you don't take too much weight off the tongue of course but something to just think about.

BigGrover

Robyn769 I have a full size Ram so I am no where near my max tongue weight.  Just thinking I could keep more things I use in the tub and out of my TV.

Awca12a

Proving once again how valuable these forums are.  Thanks All.  Very helpful.

JEB

N7SHG_Ham said:

The primary reason the 400 has a heavy hitch weight (for the size of the trailer) is by design with the trailer axle placement. The often quoted 10% hitch weight is a minimum for stable towing (I imagine most of us have all seen the model demo and how weight distribution affects stability). Being 500 rather than the minimum 350ish (10%) should provide an even more stable trailer.

I may have a very unpopular opinion here, but if your TV is sagging enough to need some means of correcting that, I would say the TV or at least the hitch weight spec is too low for a 400. Stouter TV will not sag, will be more stable and will equal a better towing experience.

Could it be that NuCamp had a frame designed that shouldn't require a sway or WDH to be used? Frame not designed for it, axle placed so it has a heavy (proportional to gross) weight and therefore towing better than a light weight on the hitch.

To those trying to reduce weight on the TV rear axle, where do you suppose the weight goes? You have three axles on the ground for ALL the weight, remove it from TV rear axle and it either goes to TV front axle or the trailer. Which one of those is now overloaded at the expense of the TV being level? A Tab 400 doesn't have a ton of extra load capacity, not looking at my trailer right now, but it is around 700 pounds total. That would include any hitch weight you transfer to the trailer axle via a WDH.

It comes down to you can't overload any one piece of the total, tires, axles, frames, hitch, etc. If you do then you are towing unsafe in my opinion.

Nobody is suggesting that a WDH is changing the laws of physics. But you are conflating two separate considerations:  gross combined vehicle weight (GCVR) and the tow vehicle’s gross axle weights.  The GCVR is what it is. A WDH doesn’t change that. But within that gross weight, it is entirely possible to, for example, overload the tow vehicle’s rear axle and underweight its front axle.  To the extent you use the WDH’s spring bars to create leverage and force the rear of the tow vehicle up, you transfer weight from the overloaded axle to the underweighted axle.  Your premise is incorrect that the transfer necessarily overweights a different axle.  To the extent too much weight is forced to the trailer’s axle (or more accurately described, the trailer is too high in the front), you lower the hitch ball.  To the extent you overload the front axle, you reduce the tension on the spring bars.  But as long as the combined weight of both vehicles is within the GCVR, it is possible to make iterative adjustments until all axles are within spec.  Not only is it possible, it’s the whole point of using a WDH.

N7SHG_Ham

@JEB used correctly you are correct. I do wonder how many folks actually weigh all three axles to confirm within axle specs. Most of the discussion seems to revolve around just making the TV level. If ANY weight transfers to the Tab axle it would be very easy to overload it.

I still think the c channel may be the limiting factor, may not be strong enough to take the lever arm bending moment arm. The WDH puts extra stress on the trailer frame it is attached to.

JEB

You might be right about that.  A tongue-heavy trailer would seem to be a poor candidate for a c-channel frame.

BigGrover

I personally know a guy that warped his trailer frame with a wdh.  Trying to compensate for having an inadequate TV.  He did it in a way that somehow shifted too much weight to his trailer axle. Not sure of the exact physics but he was trying to overcome about 6" of vehicle drop from the tongue weight

JEB

BigGrover said:

I personally know a guy that warped his trailer frame with a wdh.  Trying to compensate for having an inadequate TV.  He did it in a way that somehow shifted too much weight to his trailer axle. Not sure of the exact physics but he was trying to overcome about 6" of vehicle drop from the tongue weight

I think that happens frequently. A WDH is not a magic wand. It only allows a properly sized tow vehicle to maximize its towing capacity. It does not turn an undersized tow vehicle into something bigger. 

BigGrover

Awca12a, as far as sway control I don't do anything special. Just don't carry anything unusually heavy in the trailer.  I carry power cord, surge protector, visor and two folding chairs in the storage bin under the bed.  Linens on the bed, clothes for two in closet, dishes, pans food etc in cabinets, drawer and fridge.  All that being said, because of the design and weight distribution of the trailer we have had no issues with sway.  Pulled our 2018 the same way with a Frontier. Drive between 60-70 mph on interstate.  Passing and being passed by semis - no sway. Before each trip I check tire pressure and keep trailer tires at 50 psi.  Been in rain storms and 30+ mph cross winds with no problem.  We carry our grill, tools, firewood, firepit, two sets of golf clubs and ice chest in the truck bed. 

JEB

For anyone thinking about getting weighed at a CAT Scale, download the Weigh My Truck app before heading to the scale.  It allows you to set up an account in advance of your visit, including payment information.   Then all you do once you arrive at the scale is use your phone to confirm your location, the weighmaster takes your measurements and then sends you a pdf of the results.  You don’t even need to get out of your tow vehicle.  Drop the trailer in the parking lot and get an immediate reweigh and you’ll have the weight of each axle on the tow vehicle with and without the trailer and then you can calculate tongue weight.  I plan to do this myself as soon as temps get above freezing consistently and I can fill my fresh tank.

BigGrover

@Awca12, @JEB,  just got back from checking tongue weight on my 2019 400 BD Lite.  Needle came up right next to the 500 lb mark.  No water in any tanks, lp tank full.  Camper loaded as for camping except fridge empty. Andersen leveler (6 lbs) stinky slinky with support (5 lbs) and assorted plastic sewer connectors (5 lbs at most) in tongue box.  Spare in place.  The idea of removing the LP tank and finding a plug for the regulater is looking more appealing.  By my estimates, my TW is about 20% of my total trailer weight that, theoretically is high.  Won't know for sure until I find a scale to weigh everything.

peterac50

robyn769 said:

I called NuCamp twice last week and my dealer called as well and we got a different weight every time, 390, 457, and 475.  I asked why haven't they updated the website because people are making MAJOR decisions on the published tow weights, and the next day the new numbers were up but they still seem out of sync.  I think I said this somewhere above, but my dealer was texting with NuCamp and had me on the phone when NuCamp said 475.  I asked my dealer to confirm this as I had just been told 457 the day before. NuCamp responded, "I know they are coming off the line at 475 because we just weighed them and we are concerned." The last I heard they were "trying to figure out what to do."  

Scott, as president of the company, if you are still following the posts on this website, I hope you can investigate this issue and weigh in. No pun intended. The fact that the specs on the 2019 400 may not have been accurate at the the time I upgraded from my 2018 320 is disturbing. That said, the idea they are “coming off the line at 475 and the company does not know why” is worrisome at best and not exactly the kind of message I think you want to be sending to the T@b community. Finally, are the specs on the boondock light the same as the regular 400. Later in this thread someone is suggesting that the boondock tongue weigh is weighing in at 500???  I am having trouble sifting through what may be real and what is not. My TV is a 2018 AWD Honda Ridgeline rated to pull 5000 lbs and a tongue weight of 500, specs that my dealer here in Vermont said were more than enough to tow a 400 safety with no weight distribution hitch or sway bar. I need to know what I am dealing with here before I head out on the road. What is Nucamp’s official position on this issue. What are the facts?  Correction: my tv tongue weight is 600lbs. This realization means I’m fine with my purchase, but I would still like know the correct specs for the 400. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@peterac50, just so you know, NO ONE from nuCamp monitors this website or any discussion thread.  That is why we encourage members to use the provided nuCamp contacts to email or call with your concerns.  I will send this issue to Scott and let you know what I hear back.  It is the weekend, so let’s give him a chance to reply.

Awca12a

Called the Ford salesperson who I got my F250 from and he went over the specs of the nuCAMP from their website plus the info I gave him.   This guy is a commercial pickup person and knows RV's.  First impression was that the nuCAMP is impressive and that once the trailer gets loaded with supplies and water, it will pull back on the tongue weight as that tank is just aft of the axle.   Plus, with the electric brakes it can handle itself if property set-up with a controller.  

As to WD, after explaining I only had 600# arm on the Equalizer, the thought was that the WD wasn't going to be torqued down heavy but was only giving a slight counterbalance backwards and therefore shouldn't be a problem even for the C channel.  In all, if I ran with the WD & probably without, once it was loaded for the road, no need to replace the 500# tongue weight 4Runner.   EXCEPT, that the Toyota manual requires one for loads over 300#.

He tried to talk himself out of a sale.  That's my kind of salesperson.

rcuomo

Peterac50- side note, if your Ridgeline is AWD the tongue weight is 600# with 5000# towing load with 2 occupants.

treefrog

Just weighed mine. All tanks dry, propane tank removed.
460 pound tongue weight.

BigGrover

@treefrog that's right in line with what I'd have if I took my lp tank and other gear out of the tub. Is yours a BD Lite?

treefrog

BigGrover Ours is the standard version.  I think it will be 500lbs with full propane tank. Wonder what it will be with full water tank.

BigGrover

@treefrog my regular 2018 had a TW of 460 with full propane tank.  Wonder why yours weighs more?

treefrog

BigGrover 
2019 model?
I'm lucky?

We just bought a new Tacoma 6cyl tongue weight rated at 640lbs.
Not as comfortable as the 4Runner but may be a better vehicle.

BigGrover

NuCamp's specs are way off!

[Deleted User]

The 2019s are heavier because of the larger refrigerator and microwave on some models. 

BigGrover

We have the microwave but the small fridge.

[Deleted User]

So if we are not supposed to use a weight distrubution hitch on the T@B C-channel frame, then why does it have this sticker saying to not use one that is too large/heavy? It implies that can use one just be sure to use the right size!! Wow, I sure wish we could get an actual answer on this from BAL/Norco.  I called them on Friday and I was referred to another number which was voice mail for the person that was supposed to be able to answer my question.  I left a message so If he calls me back i will be sure to post what I find out.  I'm trying to attach a photo of the sticker but not working so far

BigGrover

I think the issue is some WDH mfrs not always making brackets for c channel frames.  There are different size and thickness C channel frames.  We had two previous campers with c channel frames that I used an Equalizer WDH on with 600 lb bars.  Just had to use the appropriate brackets.

[Deleted User]

what is considered an appropriate bracket though?