Tab 400 - Weight-Distribution Hitch Not Recommended Due To C-Channel Construction

falcon1970

Hard to believe that the ABS tub is heavier than the diamond plate tub.

[Deleted User]

I was thinking it might accidentally be flipped. 

BigGrover

ABS has a higher density than aluminum

[Deleted User]

Ohhhh.  Good to know!  It kind if sounds like they are hinting the 2020s are going to maybe be a bit lighter on the tongue....or maybe I'm reading that into what was said.  Nucamp told me last week they expect to start building the 2020s in April. I found that kind of surprising. 

tabiphile

The standard unit 3-Way Fridge numbers appear to be reversed.

With 3-Way Fridge

441

435

435 - 441 would make sense.

[Deleted User]

I think it's right because water in the water tank is actually taking some weight off the tongue. The water is acting as a counter balance.

BigGrover

IMHO folks should base their towing on a trailer that, when loaded, does not exceed 75% of the TV  max recommended Tongue and tow weight.  Like Scott stated, there are too many variables such that I bet if you weighed every trailer coming off the assembly line you'd get a different weight on each.  Now @Awca and I need to figure why ours are coming in 40 lbs heavier than those weighed at the factory.  I wonder if their wet weight included a full propane tank?

treefrog

The ABS tub has a steel frame for support.  The aluminum does not need a frame, either way its only a 5 pound difference.
I know every pound matters. We are considering removing the 3/4" plywood bathroom door and using the shower curtain instead.
I'm also thinking about adding 50# of lead weight in the rear of the trailer. Really wish there was a way to put a rack on the back like the 320 Outback.
Endless possibilities, some better than others.

BigGrover

@treefrog The dinette table is very heavy.  I am going replace mine with a smaller plywood table that's about 1/2 the weight.  I wish the spare was behind the axle.

N7SHG_Ham

IMO, a 400 needs a 5000 pound tow rating with a 500 pound hitch weight rating, those vehicles with less than that will either provide a bad towing experience at best and worst case you will likely shorten life of tow vehicle components.

I know many will disagree, but I think the physics support my opinion. Sure your 3500 pound TV may move it down the road but there is more to the story than that. For starters I think you are going to find very few 3500 class vehicles that can support the hitch weight. Definitely for those upsizing from the 320, I think a careful consideration of TV would be necessary to determine if that needs upsized also.

treefrog

BigGrover

Just what I had in mind.  

treefrog

BigGrover Yes to the table. Yes to the spare, I gave up on the spare.

N7SHG_Ham  I think a pickup would be ideal. We have a Tacoma rated at 6800# tow, 680# tongue. 4Runner 5000# tow 500# tongue.
I would prefer to tow with the Tacoma, but the 4runner is so much more comfortable.

[Deleted User]

When I was still trying to decide if I could tow with my Jeep Wrangler I thought the first thing to go is the table, which is quite unattractive in my opinion, the spare put under the bed, and a smaller propane tank.  I know you aren't supposed to be over 40% weight in the rear but the 38 pound spare wouldnt be an issue if it's ok to tow with a full water tank...which I would never need to do.  

Sierra

Hi there, we are upgrading from our 2006 Dutchman tab to a 400 Boondock that we are excited to pick up next week. We have a 2014 Dual Cab Tacoma with the towing package and are stuggling to decide if we need a WDH or if just a sway bar is ok. It was never a consideration with the smaller tab which was such an easy tow. 
I've been reading the forum, but with limited understanding of the implications on the frame, I'm finding it very confusing. The dealer has recommended a Blue ox that comes in at over $1000 or a sway bar. We are leaning toward the sway bar only but from what I understand we have to disconnect it before reversing. I'm afraid that is an easily forgotten requirement !! We are also concerned about loosing the clearance. We ordered a full size spare and will be carrying it in the pickup tray.
We are in Canada and have to order the hitch. There is no local RV place near us. 
Is anyone towing the same configuration with only a sway hitch? Do we even need a sway bar?
We do a lot of travel into the states. Long highway stretches and then dirt roads.

Verna

I do not use a sway bar, nor a weight distributing hitch, as I have no need for them. It tows just fine.

 2015 Tacoma 6 cyl TRD with tow package, towing a 2019 T@B 400 Boondocking Lite. I do have Firestone air bags with a built-in compressor on the rear of the Tacoma to adjust for the “squat” that all Tacoma’s do when towing. 

Sierra

Thanks Verna, How do you think it would go without the air bags? We are upgrading our truck later this year and think it's a good idea for the new one but would like to avoid putting the bags in now.

Verna

@Sierra, if you drive with your headlights on, you will blind the oncoming drivers.

The front end of your Tacoma will be much too light.

It will be difficult to have the Tacoma and the 400 level with each other.

I know others tow without the air bags, but I would not be comfortable. 

I went to the Toyota Service Manager at my dealer to ask about the “squatting” with my T&B 320, and he recommended the air bags. I told him a year later that it was a great decision to have the air bags installed. He said he was going to call the owner of a Tundra who was having the same problem, to tell him the air bags would solve his squatting problem. 

Sierra

@Verna, thanks. That does make sense. We also have a 1” lift so that probably wouldn’t help either. 

hobbithouse

Ditto Verna's advice. My Tacoma set up was exactly as hers, but with a 3"lift. Towed great.

Sierra

Thanks @hobbithouse I’ve been looking into it and sounds like a good option. 
Has anyone used Sumo springs instead of air bags?

jgram2

@Sierra Several threads if you search on sumo!

GrandmasKid

Please clear this up for me if you can. Does the "bolt-on/link style" advised above require drilling into the frame or are the brackets I see bolted on without drilling good enough? I'm wanting the best safest ride I can achieve towing with my Toyota Tacoma. I understand many say the weight distribution hitch is not necessary but we intend to tow over some very windy bumpy roads and I'm told by some that the WDH will improve the ride and the safety. My dealer seems hesitant to install a WDH so I'm thinking I might install one myself even though I don't have a great place to work on T@B. The work space is outside and an slightly uneven gravel drive. I'd rather not be drilling into the frame but wishful thinking hasn't solved my problems in the past. Can someone show me a link to an example of a "bolt-on/link style" WDH? Thanks for your thoughts.

ColoradoSun

Your issue concerns a WDH but I posed the following question to NuCamp, "What if any position does NuCamp have on the issue of drilling the holes required to mount a sway bar on the A-frame of the trailer? This is the reply I received.

"Unfortunately we have no position since it is aftermarket. Although a bolt through system would be better than a tension-held since it can damage the C channel.

Kind Regards, 

Creed Hostetler
Technical Support 
nuCamp"

AirBoss

@GrandmasKid
Here's a style of bolt-on WDH:

https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution-Hitch/Reese/RE44FR.html?feed=npn&gclid=Cj0KCQiAj9iBBhCJARIsAE9qRtBgNTtnXQgWoyZ36EnEQj6Igp9obKltLwO30fv0RxfKtuMtXWYX56gaAjkxEALw_wcB

Just to reiterate, nuCamp does not recommend WDH, regardless of the style. An anti-sway bar is one thing and can be helpful. A WDH does exactly what it says. It redistrubutes weight across the entire package...tow vehicle and trailer. Thus, you're redistributing weight to the axle of the T@B. There's really no reason to do so and in fact, depending on your configuration and GCVW (are you already at or near the GAWR of the T@B?), it could be detrimental to the T@B.

Have you towed your rig without an anti-sway bar? Have you towed with one? FWIW, I'd recommend towing without either device for a while, then decide on what you want to spend time, effort, energy and money on. 

Just my opinion here but a WDH on a T@B is unnecessary overkill and falls into the category of just because you can doesn't mean you should. 

Now, that opinion, and $5.00 will get you latte at Starbucks! 

GatorEgg

How about someone with a 400 look in your owners manual under WDH.  Yes, they are also available online for free download.

ColoradoSun

I could not find anything in the 2021 400 manual specifically addressing weight distribution hitches.

Denny16

On the TaB400 there is a sticker that has the towing limitations printed on it
The next to last line states, Do not use an equalizing lost hitch (WDH) greater than 750 lbs rating (see photo below, red underlined statement).

So that is the official trailer frame/nüCamp manufactures stand on using a WDH.  Bottom line, even towing a TaB400, I find it unnecessary to use one.  WDH hitches were designed to be used with large trailers, in the +4,000 weight range, with axles that could handle the combined distributed weight of the trailer load and tow vehicle.  

The main advantage of a WDH or Equalizing Hitch was to shift some of the tongue /hitch weight off the rear axle of the TV to the front axle to equalize the weight distribution on the TV.  This keeps the TV front end down where it belongs, but this also shifts some of the TV weight to the trailer axle.  With a tongue weight in the 300-400 lbs range, and a GVWR of 3500/3900 lbs (on TaB400, less on the 320),  this is not needed, nor desired in most cases with smaller trailers, like the TaBs.

Cheers

MuttonChops

Denny16 said:

. . . TaB400 there is a sticker that has the towing limitations printed on it
The next to last line states, Do not use an equalizing lost hitch (WDH) greater than 750 lbs rating . . .

OK, however if someone feels or knows their TV & 400 Rig needs a WDH then it is allowed.
One just must purchase the Correct Rated 'bars' . . . while 1,000 pound 'bars' are typical lower rated systems are available.

DougH

I don't know if it is relevant, but the Andersen WDH manual and installation instructions have a section on page 9-10 regarding installation with C channel frames. To keep the 3/4/5/6" braces on the frame from moving under whatever level of tension you've dialed in, they say either drill two 7/16" holes in the frame for the set screws... or use the services of a certified welder to connect the rear of the bracket to the frame.  They don't mention slathering the bracket with JB Weld, but some might say that's just as good. It's not though... only 30% the strength of a good steel weld.  I dunno... I really don't like the idea of drilling two half inch holes in a 4-5" tall frame, even if that space is later filled with set screws. One positive about the Anderson system though is you can dial in a very low weight distributing amount of tension on the chains. But too low and the ball won't be locked to the coupler, negating the unique anti-sway friction sleeve Andersen uses. And note that Andersen won't work with Atwood 88007, 88010, 88555, 88600 couplers, and I don't know which Atwood the 400 uses.