Keeping T@B battery charged when running ARB

Photomom

We just got back from a week of camping without hookups. We had to run our generator every day during 4-7pm, the time generators are permitted there, to keep the battery charged. Every time the battery would come back up to 12.6v and the next day it would be back to 12.1v - 12.2v.

It is a group 27 battery. Generator is Honda 2000 watt. The only things running are the ARB, the Alde on propane (at night), the Jensen, and the propane detector. We charged our iphones every day or two. And we occasionally used the water pump when doing dishes. We did not use the fan or the lights.

Is this typical? Should we expect to have to run the generator every day?

Ratkity

For me, that was slightly typical except I put an ON/OFF switch on the Jensen and kept it off, using my ipod and a blue tooth speaker. You also have phantom power to usb ports and lights, plus there's a chance you may have used the inside lights. Not battery hogs, but Luci lights or puck lights may have saved a wee bit of battery usage. You never got down to more the 50%, a very good indicator that what you were doing daily was perfect! Regarding the 4 hour gen charge, that is typical. You got the battery up enough amperage to cover the next day's battery usage. If it kept going down each down a little more, I'd say your usage was out-pacing what the generator could provide in that little 4 hour window.

I hope you had a great time during your week!!! 

pthomas745

That would mean the ARB is using about 40 amp hours a day all by itself, if you left it running 24 hours.  Is it necessary to run the ARB all that time?  Or can it "keep its cool" if you cycled it on and off to save battery power?

Sharon_is_SAM

@Photomom, how many amps in your Group 27 battery?  What is your daily phantom draw?  Was the ARB full?  Did you have a temp monitor on the ARB?  We used less than 25 amps per day under similar conditions with our ARB, except our phantom draws from our SeeLevel, Victron battery monitor and CO/LP detector.

jkjenn

Your T@b has about .2ah phantom drain, pretty negligible. The Jensen can be a bit of an energy hog. The stereo draws 3.0ah and the TV,watching a DVD draws 4.0ah. A group 27 battery generally has a 95ah capacity (at a 20 hour run rate.) The Alde is about a .6ah draw after initial start-up.

Also, how much did you run the water pump? If you showered, that can be a bit of a drain (4ah.)

With the ARB averaging about 2ah and the entertainment usage, it seems that your generator use is pretty much spot on. Did you have the ARB battery monitor set to low or high?

Photomom

We did use Luci lights, never the T@B lights and certainly not the porch light. The ARB ran probably 22 hours a day as we’d switch the plug to the car when we went somewhere. It stayed in the car because bears. I fabricated an insulating cover for the ARB from reflectix but that was enough of a faraday shield that my fridge temp monitor didn’t work. Front panel averaged 36F. The battery is a 100AH group 27 which we’ve meticulously maintained.

I do plan to put a switch on the Jensen, and in the future we will switch the battery off when we don’t need the Alde running. We will come up with another way to charge the iPhones. Most of the places we stay have electric but campgrounds in the Adirondacks don’t.

Solar isn’t a practical option for us because we camp in the Northeast, lots of trees, and it always rains. 

We had an awesome week at Fish Creek Ponds. It was a rally for teardrop trailers and there were over 70 teardrops and other campers. Maybe 6 T@Bs, 10 T@Gs, lots of vintage, home built, and other trailers. We were able to take our kayaks out every day but one. The campsites there are all on the water and you can launch from your campsite.

Photomom

Would we get a better charge if we used a battery charger instead of the converter? 

Sharon_is_SAM

It might be faster.  Would you run the charger off the Tab 110 outlet?

jkjenn

I honestly dont think the Jensen switch will make much of a difference. 

You can save some battery by setting the battery monitor on the ARB to high.

I ran my ARB off my GZ Yeti 1000 on 12v this weekend and was pretty happy with the results. The temp ranged from 23 to 31. It was pretty perfect. I used the ARB with the TV inverter when I drove. 

Photomom

SAM said:

It might be faster.  Would you run the charger off the Tab 110 outlet?

Off the generator.

Photomom

We are still up in the air about the ARB. It’s one of those things that seemed like a good idea, but it’s pretty easy to find ice ... at DEC campgrounds vendors deliver ice and firewood right to your campsite...

Photomom

A point of interest - after driving 6 hours home, the Highlander’s alternator had kept the ARB cold, the car air conditioner running, AND had recharged the T@B battery to 12.6v.

jkjenn

Photomom said:

A point of interest - after driving 6 hours home, the Highlander’s alternator had kept the ARB cold, the car air conditioner running, AND had recharged the T@B battery to 12.6v.

Good to know. Were you running the T@b fridge on DC?

I haven't had a chance to test the new TV alternator and power distribution with the T@b, yet, but it did a great job with just the ARB. It was interesting to look at the real-time voltage ratings on the TV as I drove home, yesterday. The A/C defenitely taxes your TV.

Photomom

jkjenn said:

Photomom said:

A point of interest - after driving 6 hours home, the Highlander’s alternator had kept the ARB cold, the car air conditioner running, AND had recharged the T@B battery to 12.6v.

Good to know. Were you running the T@b fridge on DC?

The T@B fridge doesn’t work on propane, so we just used it as a pantry this trip. 

jkjenn

Photomom said:

jkjenn said:

Photomom said:

A point of interest - after driving 6 hours home, the Highlander’s alternator had kept the ARB cold, the car air conditioner running, AND had recharged the T@B battery to 12.6v.

Good to know. Were you running the T@b fridge on DC?

The T@B fridge doesn’t work on propane, so we just used it as a pantry this trip. 

Oh, that's right.  Stink.

I will say, it took me a few outings with the ARB to get a good feel for the best way to use it. I feel like this weekend was the best outing I had with it, and yesterday was truly hot!

A lot of people in the expedition travel community will install dual TV batteries and run the fridge off of it. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@Photomom, check the specs on your battery charger.  Not sure if it works as well off a generator.  I need to dig out mine for review.  They may be sensitive to voltage variations.  

Sharon_is_SAM

@Photomom, can’t you connect your generator directly to your Tab battery?  You said you were using the Tab converter, so it sounds like you connected the Tab electric cord to the generator.

Photomom

SAM said:

@Photomom, can’t you connect your generator directly to your Tab battery?  You said you were using the Tab converter, so it sounds like you connected the Tab electric cord to the generator.

It looks like there is a way. Needs a special cord. The instructions don’t say anything about removing the cell covers as shown in the diagram, is that necessary?


I’m a little perturbed about this comment in the manual. “Not regulated” could be pretty much anything.
Also, if the DC output is 12 volts, how can it charge a 12 volt battery?

Sharon_is_SAM

Does that mean you should monitor the charging process or does that mean it is potentially hazardous?

Photomom

SAM said:

Does that mean you should monitor the charging process or does that mean it is potentially hazardous?

No idea!

Ratkity

What the DC receptacle warning means is the charger on the generator has outputs JUST for automotive 12V battery charging. It probably has 3 modes, so plugging other appliances to charge or 6V batteries is not recommended since the output is variable.

The caps seen off the of the battery in your picture is an example of charging a lead-acid flooded battery. When charging a lead-acid battery, it off-gasses hydrogen. You don't want that to build up, so usually just loosening the caps is enough to vent gasses. Without consistently loosening the caps can cause a bulging case or worse, when you open the vent caps it could spray acid in your face. I don't recommend taking them completely off and putting them on the ground because of dirt, bugs, and/or losing the little caps (I like the battery type that combines 3 in one bar).  

Also, after charging, check the distilled water level in all 6 cells. I keep a small 1L bottle of distilled water because it's easier to pour. A couple of tablespoons a year per cell is all I need to add and I keep the battery at a full charge via solar when the camper is parked (no loads - cutoff is flipped).

If you overfill a cell, acid along with distilled water gets on the top. Don't mop it up. Replace the caps so they seal and put a baking soda/water paste on the mess. It neutralizes the acid to water and salts. THEN mop it up. Sorta messy, but it works. Rinse the baking soda mixture up with distilled water.

Photomom

@Ratkity we charge the battery all the time without removing the cell covers. Every time the trailer is plugged in the converter charges it. What am I missing?

Ratkity

Growing up, I was always taught (by Dad) to loosen the caps of the battery when being charged and then add distilled water afterwards. Then let it sit overnight so chemicals can mix. There were two modes. Deep cycle and normal. It's something I've always done when attaching a stand-alone charger to a battery with no load.

The converter charges at a slower rate to due the rate needed by sealed AGM batteries so those don't bulge or crack the case. With a flooded acid battery, the bulk rate is higher (14.4V vs 13.8V). It causes less off-gassing of hydrogen. The converter rarely goes into bulk mode in the camper. It stays in absorption and float modes the most. I think it's even mentioned in the converter manual.

A decent stand-alone charger will allow selection of the battery type (flooded, gel or AGM - and in the future, Lithium when those batteries become cheaper). Sometimes a flooded battery can be "equalized". That's putting a high voltage to the battery for a couple of hours (must be monitored). It adds life to the battery by removing the sulfur buildup on the two lead plates inside the battery. Taking off the caps when doing that is necessary because hydrogen off-gasses quickly. Also, water boils off, so be prepared to add a bit of distilled water. I don't believe that's possible to equalize AGM batteries (although I heard of one - Trojan I think). 

Did this help?

db_cooper

We bought our T@b when it was a year old, and the previous owner was pretty meticulous.  The original group 24 battery would always read 12.2 after a night with only the Alde and a bit of water pump. Realistically, if the water pump is 4ah, you're only going to use 1 amp per fresh tank fill, takes me less than 15 minutes to drain the tank through the pump.

We went with the 2 golf cart setup, and that's the best mod I've done to date.  If you plan to not have hookups much, it's a great way to go.

ScottG

Photomom said:

...
Solar isn’t a practical option for us because we camp in the Northeast, lots of trees, and it always rains. 

We had an awesome week at Fish Creek Ponds. It was a rally for teardrop trailers and there were over 70 teardrops and other campers. Maybe 6 T@Bs, 10 T@Gs, lots of vintage, home built, and other trailers. We were able to take our kayaks out every day but one. The campsites there are all on the water and you can launch from your campsite.

Just noticed this thread. Coincidentally, I was at lovely Fish Creek Pond last year at the same time the Tear-up-the-Adirondackers were there. Lotsa' T@B sightings that year (but so far this year is a bust...).

How were the bugs?

Can't help you much with the ARB, but I also camp in the trees and hav had reasonable success with solar. The key is plenty of extension cord and a little willingness to move the panel once in a while. Of course, some sun is also required, but--knock on wood--I've yet to experience so much straight rain that I had to resort to something other than the panel.

Photomom

ScottG said:

Photomom said:

...
Solar isn’t a practical option for us because we camp in the Northeast, lots of trees, and it always rains. 

We had an awesome week at Fish Creek Ponds. It was a rally for teardrop trailers and there were over 70 teardrops and other campers. Maybe 6 T@Bs, 10 T@Gs, lots of vintage, home built, and other trailers. We were able to take our kayaks out every day but one. The campsites there are all on the water and you can launch from your campsite.

Just noticed this thread. Coincidentally, I was at lovely Fish Creek Pond last year at the same time the Tear-up-the-Adirondackers were there. Lotsa' T@B sightings that year (but so far this year is a bust...).

How were the bugs?

Can't help you much with the ARB, but I also camp in the trees and hav had reasonable success with solar. The key is plenty of extension cord and a little willingness to move the panel once in a while. Of course, some sun is also required, but--knock on wood--I've yet to experience so much straight rain that I had to resort to something other than the panel.

This was the Tear Up rally. The black flies were gone but the mosquitos were plentiful and the deer flies had just come out by the end of the week. 

ScottG

How successful were you at keeping the bugs out of the camper? Have you done the "bug fuzz" retrofit or were the hairnets sufficient?

I think it was my rant about the skeeters at Fish Creek Pond last year that set the whole bug fuzz thing in motion!  :-)