Solar for a Beginner

mburke79

Hi friends,

i was hoping to get to get some guidance on setting up solar for my 320CS. Most of the places we go don’t have hook-ups and I’m not a huge fan of the generator so I’d like to go the solar route. 

Please note - I’m a complete newbie - so if you get even a little technical, you’re gonna lose me. We need to power lights, fan, and charge a couple phones. If we can run a small keurig or the furnace, even better but those are not priorities for us. 

Any help or guidance is appreciated. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@mburke79,

A few lessons, but first a few things to consider:  

Solar panels charge your battery which in turn operates your 12 v appliances.  You don’t run appliances off of your solar panel.  A Keurig or any other 110 v appliance requires an “inverter” and adequate battery capacity.  Appliances that create heat such as a coffee pot, hair dryer, microwave etc require a much higher amount of amps and probably a bigger battery.

1.   How many amps a day will you use on average?  I can tell you we easily get by on less than 25 amps a day running some lights, Alde, pump, ARB frig.  Here is a handy discussion with member jkjenn’s famous chart:  
https://jenngrover.com/2015/11/guilty-as-charged-rv-battery-use-management/

2.  What is your battery capacity (amps) at the 20 hr rate?  Is it a true deep cycle?  New TaBs have dealer supplied batteries that typically provide 75 amps or less.  You can only use half of those amps before recharging to extend the life of a deep cycle battery.

3.  How long do you expect to camp without power?  If only a couple days at a time, with modest use of power, you may be better served by simply increasing your battery capacity to 100 amps or greater.

4.  If you determine that you will be camping beyond the limits of your battery, then increasing your battery capacity and adding a single 100 watt solar suitcase is typically sufficient for many people.

5.  You will need a charge controller that regulates the energy from the solar panels to the battery.  Some solar suitcases come with a charge controller already in line and these units are plug and play.  Others have separate charge controllers.  

I suggest starting to read here:  

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm

https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/how-much-solar-do-i-need-on-my-rv/


https://roadslesstraveled.us/rv-solar/


https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/rules-of-thumb-in-sizing-solar-systems/

gbhaney

Thank you. This is helpful to us, too. We want to get suitcase panels as we need the camper (2017 320S) in the shade because of our dogs, but want to add solar.

Sharon_is_SAM

Does your TaB have the solar charge port on the front tub?  Was the TaB purchased new?  I ask because you will want to confirm the port wiring arrangement.  

mburke79

@Sharon_is_SAM it was not bought new, but its a 2017.  I'm not sure about the port.  @jkjenn was kind enough to PM so I think I'm going to use her a resource as I work my way through this.  All of the responses so far have been so helpful!

Sharon_is_SAM

Can’t go wrong with jkjenn!

ScottG

Welcome @mburke79. Like you, I prefer camping in places that typically lack hookups. I'm also not a big fan of generators--I don't want to lug one around, and I don't want to listen to one in the next campsite over.

There are a boatload of solar resources and opinions out there. If spending hours digesting that material and working every detail out on paper appeals to you, than you are going to have a blast slogging through the minutiae. (And there's nothing wrong with that!)

On the other hand, if that sounds tiring and intimidating, take heart that it really isn't necessary. Sharon_is_SAM's excellent summary hit the main points you should know up front. A 100W solar suitcase is cheap (relative to a T@B, anyway)--pick one up and go camping!  I've always felt solar is dish best consumed in small bites. Learn the ropes, pay attention, and you will quickly figure out what works and what doesn't for your particular circumstance.

Photomom

I bought a 100 watt solar suitcase recently myself along with a smallish solar “generator” and have been doing some experiments to learn how solar works. One thing I’ve learned is that orientation of the panels with respect to the sun makes a measurable difference in the amount of power you harvest. I’ve run across a few really helpful resources.

https://www.teachengineering.org/lessons/view/cub_pveff_lesson01 Explanation of how solar elevation affects solar panel output

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/azel.html Calculator to help you determine optimum solar panel angle based on time of year and latitude

https://www.simplysolar.app/ An app for your iPhone that helps you adjust the position and angle of your solar panels. Works like the NOAA calculator but does all the work for you.

pthomas745

I agree with Scott G.  Solar can be overthought and overbought faster than an audiophile can tell you what you need for your stereo system.  I've used a simple Renogy "kit" from Amazon for several years, just the panel, the controller, the cables.  Keep things simple.  Much easier than it looks.  I have a flexible panel now, which weighs four pounds.  The dreaded Zamp connector, which has launched 10 billion web searches, is easy to deal with or work around. 

The importance of Jenn Grover's posts (linked above) cannot be overstated.  Understanding how to measure your "state of charge, "  and how much power you will actually use or are using, is crucial to successful solar power.

dragonsdofly

@gbhaney, if you have a 2017, it has the zamp port as standard. It was discontinued as standard equipment for model year 2018.

mburke79

Thank you, everyone.  I've been lurking in these forums for the past 8 months (since we bought our beloved 320) and I knew there was a lot of support here but I didn't realize just how helpful this community is.  I've been messaging with @jkjenn and she's going to walk me through the process which I couldn't be more grateful for.

Everyone has been so helpful!  Thank you!  I will report back and let you know what I decide to do based on Jenn's recommendations!

BrianZ

I learned a lot about solar & battery power from @jkjenn.  By using one of her spreadsheets to list our expected power consumption for a 5 day trip without hookups, I quickly realized I needed some solar and a battery with more Amp-Hours capacity.  We got a battery monitor, a solar panel & a 150 AH 12V golf cart battery, then a few months ago we made our first trip using solar, which I documented here..

http://tabforum.nucamprv.com/#/discussion/7926/boondocking-our-first-experience-documented

Sharon_is_SAM

Just thought I would share that Renogy now has a 10 amp PWM charge controller with an LED display and bluetooth ability - all for $20!  I believe this is adequate for at least a 100 watt panel which is where a lot of members start.  You can not really add more panels to this system, but it sure is a cheap toe dip into solar waters.

TerryV6

I've been very busy for a while and only now finding time to do some of these things.  We purchased a 200 watt suitcase panel from Renogy when they were on sale.  With a lot of suggestions, I bought the required extras, and there it sat.  I pulled it all out last week when we had our faux spring and tried it out.  My 40 watt panel that came with the camper does nothing.  The cables are a bit stiff and maybe I should tape them together to perhaps get them better under control.  I attached the cables to the panel and then put on the attachment in order to plug into the Zamp.  I appear to be charging well.  I will digging deeping to this as well.  I'd be curious if anyone has a routine they follow for the day...  Also will look into the discussions here about battery charge monitors.  









Here is the difference from my old panel... grin...

Sharon_is_SAM

Hey @TerryV6, you may like to bundle your lengthy extensions with 5/8 inch black loom.  Much easier to roll up one set of wires.
What gauge wire did you use?

TerryV6

Thanks Sharon,
I’ll give a highly technical answer.  They are the kind renogy recommended and sent me.... The cable says “Encore wire/Corp 8awg type photovoltaic wire gr2.  We are ordering stuff right now and I’ll add the loom.  Also adding a few glass fuses.  Still haven’t gotten around to running a ground for the Alde..

Sharon_is_SAM

8 awg!  You are all set.  

Olena

I'm not technical either, but I also like to camp without any hook-ups (where it's quiet and not busy!). I have a 2017 also and it has the Zamp plug, but I know from this forum that Nucamp is continually changing things, even in the middle of a production year. When I go camping, I usually go for two weeks at a time, and am just looking to power the water pump, fantastic fan (only to vent the stove for a few minutes - the fan is the biggest power draw for me) and lights once in a while (the lights in the T@B are such horrible bright kitchen lighting!).

So as a non-technical person here is what I do. I hope this helps!

- I do have a 120 Watt Zamp suitcase with built in charge controller. Expensive, but easy plug and play.

- The fantastic fan is only for venting when I turn on the stove, otherwise I have a couple of USB portable fans to keep cool - they work very well and hardly draw any power.

- I have a bunch of portable solar lanterns. They have nice ambient lighting and the charge lasts for many hours. The Goal Zero crush light even has a candle flicker setting!

- The battery in my T@B is still the basic dealer supplied battery.

- I keep a phone and a tablet charging in the USB ports most of the time.

- Coffee is made with a stovetop espresso maker! That makes nice strong coffee.

The solar suitcase is kept out all day, everyday and with that set-up the battery always stays almost fully charged.

Again, from a non-technical person, I hope this helps!

TerryV6

@Olena,
Thanks, that is exactly what I am looking for.  Do you have any theft fears for you panel.  I am researching this as well and will see how others here have dealt with that...  I think I did less research on my final paper for my History major.... grin...

Olena

It depends where I'm camping. I spend most of my summer in a provincial park on the shores of Lake Huron that's in a nice area and don't worry about theft. However, if I camp near an urban centre or go way up north where the situation is different, then I pack the panel away when I go out. Less charge time, but I can't see a clear way to secure the panel - those aluminum legs can be broken off pretty easily, so a lock and chain through those won't do much.

Sharon_is_SAM

@TerryV6, when we must leave the area, we have a sturdy 15 ft. cable lock that we secure to the trailer frame.  

ScottG

@Olena, I am reasonably tech savvy, but still take much the same approach you do: conservative power usage, full time solar, and morning coffee from the stove top. It is camping after all.  :-)

@TerryV6, I usually do like Sharon_is SAM and cable my panel to the T@B or a handy tree if I'm going to be gone for a time. I just loop the cable through the suitcase handle, which admittedly won't deter a determined thief for long. I vaguely recall others here have drilled out holes in the metal frame to accommodate a padlock.

pthomas745

The way I see it, solar confuses so many people that 99 percent of the people walking by in a campground wouldn't steal it because they would have no idea how to use it.

rkj__

Olena said:

It depends where I'm camping. I spend most of my summer in a provincial park on the shores of Lake Huron that's in a nice area and don't worry about theft.

Even at nice provincial parks, I still live by "don't leave out anything you are not willing to lose."  I will not be heartbroken if somebody steals my $100 panel, but I'd think twice about anything more valuable. 

ScottG

I guess it all depends on the level of risk you are willing accept. I'm inherently distrustful and would be righteously aggrieved if someone pilfered my stuff. However, I spend most of my days away from the campground, and those are the hours I need that solar panel out doing it's job. I'm also a little lazy and disinclined to have to break down and secure my portable grill, outdoor stove, chairs, tables, etc. every time I leave the site. I guess I consider myself "self-insured" but as with any insurance policy you hope you don't need to use it.  :-) 

rkj__

ScottG said:

However, I spend most of my days away from the campground, and those are the hours I need that solar panel out doing it's job.

That's pretty much true.  I guess to use any portable panel, you have to be willing to leave it unattended.

Cbusguy

Panels are getting very inexpensive.    

I install all of the expensive electronics in a locked tub screwed to the trailer frame,    Solar tech is improving almost monthly someone snags my panels I view it as an opportunity to upgrade.   100 watt panels are less than a $1 per watt, the last two I bought was HQST with are out of the same production plant as the renogy were $80 each.   

Solar suit cases are another marketing gimick,   I can add hinges and a handle to mine for less that $20 and have twice the wattage for half the price.

rkj__

Cbusguy said:

Panels are getting very inexpensive.    

I install all of the expensive electronics in a locked tub screwed to the trailer frame,    Solar tech is improving almost monthly someone snags my panels I view it as an opportunity to upgrade.   100 watt panels are less than a $1 per watt, the last two I bought was HQST with are out of the same production plant as the renogy were $80 each.   

Solar suit cases are another marketing gimick,   I can add hinges and a handle to mine for less that $20 and have twice the wattage for half the price.

As a result, solar panels are getting more an more popular.  I'm not too paranoid about my 40W panel getting stolen, because chances are, there are 5 more just like it, a few campsites down....

Cbusguy

you have a point,  I won't worry about my cheapo 100 watt panels when there is a couple hundred dollar solar brief case near by

TerryV6

Sharon_is_SAM said:

Hey @TerryV6, you may like to bundle your lengthy extensions with 5/8 inch black loom.  Much easier to roll up one set of wires.
What gauge wire did you use?

This is funny @Sharon_is_SAM,  I read your message but saw the pic.  I am now the proud owner of 25 ft. of 1/2” split foam...  It struggled with this for 15 minutes trying to get the 2 wires in that foam.. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@TerryV6, I think they are out of the 5/8 in loom.  Did the 1/2 “ not work?  As I remember, there was plenty of overlap, so I think it should cover your 8 awg.

We have 10 awg wire and it has a mind of it’s own, so I can imagine that yours is even worse.  It took 2 of us to split the loom and feed the wire.  Still, it was worth it.  Much easier to roll it up to store.