T@B Acceptable Mid-Size SUV Tow Vehicle

jgram2

@jenniferlzr I think it had ~135k on it and I would have driven it another 135, but DH got his wish and now we’ve a V6 4WD. We put a boatload of money into it over ~ 4 years. Don’t buy used without good maintenance records and an assessment by a reputable mechanic, then cross your fingers. That V8 was definitely a more formidable machine. Towing was easy and I imagine this one will tow fine too but cannot attest to it as we haven’t been able to take it out yet. Soon I hope.

Denny16

Look up any used TV’s in Kelley Blue Book to get a fair used market value for your area.  

Cheers

Polanskyster

I'm looking to purchase a 2020/21 T@B400.  My TV is a 2020 Audi Q5 with tow capacity of 4,400 lbs and tongue capacity of 440. Should I be concerned about using this TV?

Denny16

An Audi Q5 is not an adequate TV for the Tab400, read this entire thread for info.
cheers

dlb

Denny16, Explain your reasoning.  Not everyone needs a truck.  The Audi has the tongue weight clearance and tow capacity clearance for a 2020/21 400.  Tongue weight is in the 300 range and we of 3000 pounds.

Snide sarcasm is not appreciated. 

dlb

 Polanskyster. Check out the various Audi forums.  There are many people towing with the Q5.  It needs to be properly set up, factory hitch package etc.  There are examples of folks towing trailers that are larger than a Tab 400.  The 3.2 engine is what many folks have who tow.  I have the SQ5 with the suspension and hitch package.  It is the vehicle we plan to tow with once we get a 400.  We have towed sport boats for years with the big GM SUV’s. No need for over kill using that vehicle to tow a Tab 400.

N7SHG_Ham

@dlb the frontal area on a tab 400 may be considerably more than the boats depending on size. I pull a 400 with full size pickup and in my opinion it pulls very hard for size, not aerodynamic at all.

It looks like all versions of the Q5 can tow 4400 pounds if properly equiped. The more concerning number is the 1000 pound limit on the vehicle for payload. Let's say 350 for hitch weight (might be conservative) and that drops you to 650 available in the vehicle, subtract 300 for two skinny passengers and you are left with 350 capacity for all other cargo. I think it would be very easy to overload the Q5 unless you are very careful. I didn't see the hitch weight capacity listed but if 400 or over that should be ok.

Just be careful to have adequate vehicle, never hear on these fourms about too much tow vehicle, BUT often threads like this can I tow a Tab with xyz? In almost all cases the question is to justify a marginally adequate vehicle. If you have the big GM vehicles still, use it, fuel economy will be about same as smaller tow vehicle and possibly better and probably a considerably better experience.

Denny16

dlb said:

Denny16, Explain your reasoning.  Not everyone needs a truck.  The Audi has the tongue weight clearance and tow capacity clearance for a 2020/21 400.  Tongue weight is in the 300 range and we of 3000 pounds.

Snide sarcasm is not appreciated. 

Sorry, that was a typo.  Others have posted that they felt the Audi was not safely up to the task.  First of all, the 350lbs tongue weight is on a dry trailer, nothing in it.  Add 30 labs for full propane bottle, 20-40 lbs for water in the tanks, and you are up to 400 lbs.   The measured tongue weight Of a loaded TaB 400 is 400-450 lbs

The Tab curb weight is around 2800 to 2900 lbs, once you add the kit needed for camping, full butane bottle, 30 gals of water (285 lbs), and  all your kit, you are at 3500 lbs on the average.  Add in the frontal drag from the trailer, and you are not towing a teardrop trailer.  The max loaded weight on the Tab 400 is 3900 lbs.  

“While the The Q5 Premium does not offer a trailer hitch, which means you won't be able to tow with that model. But the Premium Plus and Prestige have a 4,400-lb maximum towing capacity and 440-lb tongue weight. ... “.  The tongue weight limit and added stress you put on the Audi with a maxed out tongue weight is the Is issue here.  You want to keep your trailer weight, including tonguevweight, to around 75 percent of the TV max limits, not be right at those limits.

A tow vehicle needs to be able to not only pull the trailer but control it and stop it.   In normal under 50 mph you might be fine. But you have a list that is at the edge of being the max your Audi can handle.   Also, the Audi is a unibody construction, and stressing it with a heavy trailer, with considerable wind drag is going to wear it out quickly.  I saw a photo of an Audi that competly drooled its towing draw bar, due to metal fatigue.  

The a TaB needs a vehicle that has a towing capacity that exceeds trailer weight and drag by at least 25 percent, so you need a gross trailer weight capacity of at least 5000 to 6000lbs and a tongue weight max at 500 to 600 lbs, with a draw bar assembly attached to a solid frame, that can handle the total gross weight of the TV and trailer combined with the normal cargo/passengers weight, and still not be maxed out.

The Audi would handle the TaB 320, not sure I would want to risk towing a TaB 400nith the Q5.  A large truck frame based SUV or mid size truck, yes, but not anything smaller.

The bottom linens what you feel comfortable doing and if you feel the Q5 is up to the job, that is your choice.  It is just not one I would make.
Cheers 

Polanskyster

Thanks for the info N7SHG_Ham, the 2020 Audi Q5 has a payload max of 1,569 lbs so I guess I can gain a few pounds.  Also the dry Tongue is 318 lbs.  Audi max Tongue weight is 440 lbs.

After posting my question I spoke to the Audi USA rep. They confirmed the Audi Q5 should have no problem towing the 2020/21 T@B 400.  

Cbusguy

@N7SHG_Ham you can absolutely have too much tow vehicle it says so on the tongue of my 320.

It should not be towed by a 1 ton or larger vehicle.

jkjenn

The Jeep Grand Cherokee has a pretty hefty tow capacity. Also, check out the Dodge Durango.

N7SHG_Ham

@Cbusguy of course you are correct on 3500 and up trucks, wasn't my point, way more towing or trying to justify with towing with undersized vehicles.

MikeDawn265

I've found this to be very helpful if you you can find the actual numbers for your Tow Vehicle and Trailer. Use the excel spreadsheet on the page. https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/?fbclid=IwAR1Apz1vacgTbkTsZVWXwKr5itN5R-o-KeQFqOFV3YlABHFzKymzpMEnh5A 

JCALD

My 19 400 says a max TV rating of 3/4 Ton on the trailer tongue 

Tampakayaker

N7SHG_Ham said:

@dlb the frontal area on a tab 400 may be considerably more than the boats depending on size. I pull a 400 with full size pickup and in my opinion it pulls very hard for size, not aerodynamic at all.

So why didn't they put the hitch on the back end and tow it narrow end forward?

Verna

Because the traditional teardrop that was first introduced prior to WWII was made with the bed at the front with headroom to sit up, with the galley in the narrow end. 

The teardrop shape became more popular after WWII when the Soldiers discovered they could travel in expensively to see our country’s sights that their fellow soldiers told them about. They used leftover aluminum from the manufacture of the fighter and transport  planes to cover the teardrops. The teardrop shape was easier to make and the shape has continued on and has evolved from a simple 4x8 teardrop to the much larger T@B 400.

DougH

And a streamlined half body has much better coefficient of drag.  Tall curved side forward, lower height pointy end behind.

GatorEgg

Tampakayaker said:

N7SHG_Ham said:

@dlb the frontal area on a tab 400 may be considerably more than the boats depending on size. I pull a 400 with full size pickup and in my opinion it pulls very hard for size, not aerodynamic at all.

So why didn't they put the hitch on the back end and tow it narrow end forward?

There are other brands pointy end forward.  Probably originally part of marketing.  “Teardrop”.

AirBoss

Anyone concerned enough about frontal area causing stability, towability, or fuel mileage to try an airfoil mounted on their TV? 

Cbusguy

Everytime the fuel cost discussion comes up.   I chuckle.

You spent high dollars on a premium trailer and you are complaining about spending an extra 3-5 cents  per mile on fuel.

Shrugs

AirBoss

@Cbusguy...I tend to agree with your comment, however; there is nothing wrong with trying to get the most out of each gallon of fuel. Even at $0.05/mile, a 7000mi trip could net $350. Not big dollars...but little dollars make big dollars (even when they're not in the dark!). 

N7SHG_Ham

For me, after driving diesels for two decades it is more than the MPG, the TQ is the seller for me.

Denny16

You can use the added torque when towing a TaB 400 or other larger trailer, not sure it is much of an advantage towing a 320 ?
cheers

luv2travel

I know this post is from May, but I have a comment and question.  I have a 2015 Audi Q5 and I have more than easily towed my 2012 T@B anywhere I wanted, including up and down the Rocky Mountains.  I hardly noticed it was back there (some steep mountain downhills did make me remember I had an object that wanted to add to my speed;).  Plus, the non-towing mileage approached a happy 29/30mpg.  I am starting my search for a newer used vehicle and I think I want the Subaru Ascent. I live in NE Wisconsin and had a Subaru Outback before the T@B happily tumbled into my life and the Outback handled the snow fantastically-like I was on an ATV.  Since I will be spending more time driving without my camper in sketchy weather than towing my beloved camper, I want to seriously consider the Ascent.  I see a few negative comments, and a few positive.  I am currently not worried about towing capacity and I have used the U-shaped hitch stabilization gadget that eliminates any rattling/ loose-feeling in the connection. Sorry for the long post, but I would like to hear why I should/should not buy an Ascent. 

VictoriaP

luv2travel said:

I know this post is from May, but I have a comment and question.  I have a 2015 Audi Q5 and I have more than easily towed my 2012 T@B anywhere I wanted, including up and down the Rocky Mountains.  I hardly noticed it was back there (some steep mountain downhills did make me remember I had an object that wanted to add to my speed;).  Plus, the non-towing mileage approached a happy 29/30mpg.  I am starting my search for a newer used vehicle and I think I want the Subaru Ascent. I live in NE Wisconsin and had a Subaru Outback before the T@B happily tumbled into my life and the Outback handled the snow fantastically-like I was on an ATV.  Since I will be spending more time driving without my camper in sketchy weather than towing my beloved camper, I want to seriously consider the Ascent.  I see a few negative comments, and a few positive.  I am currently not worried about towing capacity and I have used the U-shaped hitch stabilization gadget that eliminates any rattling/ loose-feeling in the connection. Sorry for the long post, but I would like to hear why I should/should not buy an Ascent. 

If you plan to stick to your 2012 Tab (320 equivalent model), the Ascent will do a fine job. If you’re thinking to eventually go up to a 400, it’s a little more borderline as the actual 400 tongue weight appears to potentially be significantly higher than spec according to people who’ve take the time to weigh theirs. But we do have people currently towing the 400 with an Ascent too. The only truly negative towing experience I’ve seen posted is from someone who from the description had the wrong hitch height and yes, needed a tightener. Towing posts over on the Ascent forum have generally been positive.

As a 4 time Subie owner and on my 2nd Outback, I have mixed emotions about the Ascent. I personally did not enjoy driving it because of the increase in size versus the Outback. It’s just not as nimble, and for everyday driving as a solo driver, I simply don’t need the extra seating and cargo. But I do think the 3 trim levels with 5k towing capacity are well suited for towing a 320-sized trailer, and I expect its sketchy weather performance will be as good as any other Subaru. Non towing mileage will be significantly lower than your Q5 though.

Go test drive one, preferably used as the turbo engine has to be broken in and does perform a bit differently once that happens—I’ve driven a brand new one versus one with about 3k miles, and the difference in acceleration from full stop is noticeably smoother. If they’ll let you do an extended/weekend test drive, I highly recommend it. 

gderrick

We have a 2020 Ascent Limited without the panoramic sunroof (too much weight) so this gives us 1200 lbs of payload to work with.  We are towing a 2006 Dutchmen T@B CS so dry in the mid 1400 lb range.  The Ascent does a great job with good visibility, comfortable, and ample storage.  With our light load driving up our NM mountains the Turbo Four is up to the task but I'm not sure it would handle 3000 lbs or more very well.  Gas mileage isn't great with normal mixed in the mid 20's and mid teens towing.  I love the hidden factory hitch but the factory receiver drop isn't enough at 6 inches you'll need 8 inches of drop for level towing.

I really like this SUV and my wife absolutely loves it so it's the right choice for us.

You'll need a Premium trim or higher to get the 5000 lb tow capability.  The highest trim levels weigh more giving you less available payload.

Positive:  Safety features like the Eyesight Driver Assist work well and are top-notch.

Negative: Safety features like the Reverse Automatic Braking work too well and can bring you to a screeching stop while trying to backup if you don't turn it off beforehand.  Even when off it will beep and scream at you highlighting your trailer tongue as an impending crash object. 

CharlieRN

rkj__ said:

Olena said:

I go through the same mental exercises too - I love my T@B 320, but one day would like more space. However, I don't want a huge car or truck (I have a Ford Escape now) because gas is expensive and for 8 months of the year I am not towing anything.

The only camper that I have seen that potentially will tick all the boxes is the Safari Alto (fixed roof series). I was able to see one at an RV show and they are very nice but I do admit they lack the character of the T@B! Altos are made in Quebec and I have heard there is an 18 month waiting list. I think the price is similar to a T@B 400.

https://safaricondo.com/en/caravanes-alto/

I’ve also checked out the Alto at the RV show. If I could not have a T@b the Alto would be my choice. I seem to spot more and more of them on the road with each season that passes. Last spring, I saw 3 in the same campground!

Don't want to hijack this thread but wanted to mention that I also checked out the Alto Safari Condo R(retractable).

It is a very nice camper with a ton of great features. Even with options (almost everything is an extra-cost option), the weight for the smaller retractable roof model (R1723) is only about 2,000 lbs. I was interested enough to contact the sales rep in Quebec and can confirm that the wait list is long (~13 months). Alto does not have any operations south of the border, so delivery is in Canada - at their Quebec location or one of their sales offices in ON or BC. If you could somehow get one now, during the pandemic, they have an arrangement where they bring the camper to a location in upstate NY, just over the border. The price for a basic R1723 was just under $40k CDN (about $30k US) and closer to $38k US once you added options like refrig, LPG hot water, heat, solar, TV, etc).

In the end, with the T@B dealer 20 miles away and "only" a 5 month lead time, I decided the Boondock was a better choice for a first camper.

luv2travel

Thank you so much to all of you!  I learned so much and I appreciate the thorough efforts in your responses.  Very grateful.  😊

hamrx

When I tow I prefer rear wheel drives.  that's all I have to add.

4ncar

Denny16 said:

You can use the added torque when towing a TaB 400 or other larger trailer, not sure it is much of an advantage towing a 320 ?
cheers

I beg to differ. The available low end torque in a diesel allows the transmission to upshift far less then a standard petrol engined vehicle. It also allows one to get up to highway speed much quicker then a standard petrol engine. Lastly, fuel economy is fantastic, relative to a standard petrol engine. I used to tow my 320S Outback with a JKU Rubi, and frankly...it was terrible. Both diesels I’ve had since the Rubi achieved ~20 mpg average while towing. No more “right lane, with flashers on” uphills for me either. Torque is everything in towing, even in a 320!