New Tab 400 has some issues

Verna

@idletab Call your dealer and they will direct you you to the person you need to speak to. I do not know the individual’s name. 

JEB

idletab said:

Could I even install a sway bar at this point?

Also, I'll report back after calling folks later today.

A new sway bar shouldn't be a problem.  The plate that bolts to the frame is pretty standard across manufacturers.  Attach the new plate with the six self-tapping screws that come with the kit and you should be good to go as far as prepping the trailer side.

falcon1970

I guess one important question would be how much you paid for it.  If you got a significant discount (which I sorta doubt) the dealer may have already considered all of this.  Still, he should have been up front with you about its history.
The bolt holes in the frame will reduce the structural strength of that c-channel somewhat but I don't know to what degree.  You can mediate this a bit (if it comes to that) by putting appropriately sized short bolts, with a fender washer on both sides, through each hole and snugging the nuts up tight.
For comparison, here are some photos of the roof vent from my TAB400.  This might help you determine if the roof vent on yours was modified from the factory original.

Bayliss

@idletab, do not let this go or accept it.  You may not get a fast resolution, but you should prevail.  I am optimistic that nüCamp will help you out and make this right.  Although I suggested two approaches for dealing with this, I personally would go to the dealer first (after being prepared with facts and photos to present to them.)  Assuming someone at the dealership (e.g., a tech,  or someone else who prepares or services the campers the dealer sells) caused the damage, it is the dealer's responsibility and they can't simply claim they "didn't know."  Plus, as @VictoriaP points out, you can share with nüCamp the dealer's response and they can use that info to go to bat for you.

As @ScottG commented, this is completely unacceptable.  If the facts are behind you, which they appear to be, it may take a bit of time and persistence, but you have a very good chance of prevailing.  Even if you can't get a new camper (which I feel you should), the dealer and/or nüCamp need to make this right.  BUT, you must bring it to the dealer's attention today.  If you have someone you trust that can help you out with this, or go with you to the dealer (for moral support if nothing else), that may help.  Remember, be assertive if the dealer pushes back, but you can only do that if you go there prepared with facts and photos.

Don't accept "sorry," "too bad," or "no" for an answer.  Point out that they did not disclose the roof damage, apparent re-caulking, and that they removed something from the tongue of the trailer without informing you.  Point out that it appears as though whatever was removed, was recently removed.  The fact that it was there at all and removed is strong evidence that the camper may have been previously used.  If you look at the photo you shared with us, you can still see the square outline of what was removed, plus it appears dirty and/or possibly spider webs in that area.  I'm not saying it was in fact previously used/owned, but it sure appears like it was.  

I am curious whether the "as is" language was conspicuous, or simply hidden in the contract.  From what you have told us, it likely was not conspicuously posted, so that is your best argument if they raise it.  Generally, "as is" language is only included in the sale of used vehicles.  Colorado may have laws that allow dealers to disclaim implied warranties, but I would expect that the law would also require a dealer to post such language in a conspicuous location/manner.  Generally, that type of notice will be posted on the window sticker, but you often won't see such a sticker on a T@B or other RV.  I did a quick search to give you an idea of what "as is" actually means.  I am not asserting that the info contained at the below site is completely accurate, or is similar to how it is handled in Colorado (the document was prepared by a Michigan lawyer), but it will give you a general idea of the law.

http://lehtoslaw.com/if-you-didnt-get-what-you-bargained-for-or-it-doesnt-work-return-it/

Start off your conversation with the dealer in a respectful manner.  Explain that you believed you were buying a NEW trailer, but after you got it home you discovered signs that it may have been used, or there were obvious defects (damaged roof, for example), that were not disclosed by the salesman.  Depending upon how the dealer reacts to your concerns, you may want to file a complaint with the Colorado Attorney General - - Consumer Affairs Division, or separate Colorado Department of Consumer Affairs.  Also, you can probably find helpful information or advice on their websites.  You can also look at Consumer Reports' web site for advice.  Although this is not a "Lemon Law" situation, reviewing information on how to deal with lemon law violations may further educate you on the relevant law in Colorado.  Similarly, Small Claims Court material produced by your state or local court may provide helpful advice.  Knowledge is power.  You just need to search for it and see what you can find.

For whatever it is worth, here are a couple photos of what that caulking job should look like when a new camper leaves the nüCamp factory:





Can anyone who owns a 2019 T@B 400 tell us whether the roof vent in @idletab's photo is a factory installed cover?

HANG IN THERE, @idletab.  We are all rooting for you and hope this all works out to your satisfaction in the end.  

idletab

@falcon1970 Mine looks similar, but it has a fuse port and a twist lock, otherwise looks the same. One of the vent covers is black so if sort of looks like there was a change or replacement.

In other news:

Talked to the dealer. Even though I still feel a bit deceived, to their credit they called me first thing after I texted my salesman and they're allowing me to come in just when I'd need to to still make a trip, on the way out of town at that. They said the unit had been prepped for someone who then backed out and their rookie service personnel removed the sway bar inappropriately. He also said they honestly didn't know about the roof damage and that there hadn't been damaging hail since they received the unit in September.

The sales manager and service manager, after speaking to both, have committed to:

-Inspecting the roof to ensure dents haven't caused damage

-Recaulking the roof

-Adjusting cabinets, but they admitted they made need new parts on this one and so may need to come back after the trip

-Reinstalling sway bar and giving me that and the sway hitch for free, this is valuable to me as I wanted this setup

How fair does this sound? 

I know there's an element of just wanting to be happy and ready for my trip in this, and I'm still peeved that it sounds like I may not get compensation for the dents as cosmetic as they may be, but I'm tempted to feel satisfied by this ASSUMING the repairs are performed well, but I need compensation for the roof.

VictoriaP

idletab said:

How fair does this sound? To be honest, I'm not super concerned about the dents as long as they don't affect water intrusion or the structural integrity. I'm more concerned that there's already water damage I can't see or that there is a greater than normal chance of it occuring due to what I've discovered. While I do hate that I had to feel this way, the dealership seems to want to help and I am getting something installed that needed to be done anyways.

It would be fair to me, but I’m not the one who needs to be happy here. As long as there are no structural issues, and they correctly fix everything else to your satisfaction, of course.

Bayliss

@idletab - - P.S.  Just a thought.  I do not know what color T@B 400 you purchased, but I see one on the Windish RV site that is listed as "Sale Pending."  It also indicates that it is a new 2019.  ( https://www.windishrv.com/rv-search?s=true&types=102&stocknumber=400 ).  IF that is your camper, take a photograph of that page so you have it before it is removed from their site.  If that is not your camper, but  yours is still posted there, then photograph that so you have the info re it being advertised as new.

N7SHG_Ham

The roof vent in question is the bathroom vent and that does look stock 2019 on a 400. I wouldn't say my new 400 has a super clean caulking job either, but I don't have the dents. That sway bar was on there a while, rust transfer to that label doesn't happen overnight unless the mounting plate was already rusty.

Biggest issue with my new 400 was moved to dealer when salt brine was on roads, still working on cleaning remains of that off, fixed a couple other minor issues and everything else was about perfect.

I don't think the unit you got meets NuCamp's normal high quality, but may be somewhat issues that happened post factory. The are tons of horror stories about other brands, this one is one of the ones from a NuCamp product that might qualify on those pages, but depending on how handled may end up being a happy story. Since NuCamp has already contacted the dealer, that is about 100x better than most manufacturers!

Bayliss

@idletab, I was probably typing my previous two posts while others were posting comments, so I was not aware of those comments when I posted mine.  It is unfortunate that the dealer was tipped off before you could confront them.  I'm not buying the "rookie" mistake claim.  Someone in authority directed them to remove the sway bar attachment.  It is evident that it was on the camper frame for some time before being removed (i.e., rust is visible.)  Regardless, if you are happy with the proposed resolution, it is what it is.

idletab

@Bayliss I see where you're coming from and I really appreciate the vigor and interest from you and others here - what a great community. 

I'm not 100 percent happy with the solution, for sure. The holes are annoying, and the disclosure should have happened regardless of whose fault it was, but the holes would have been drilled anyways for the sway bar shortly. The caulking is janky, but the 400s don't apparently have the cleanest caulking per photos in this thread and *apparently* it will be fixed, and from what I understand stripping and reapplying caulk is pretty normal RV activity. The roof dents I am the least happy about.

C'mon folks, tell me if this is a sane approach or not!

Cbusguy

Including the sway bar is the right thing to do.   the cabinet repairs are expected under warranty.    

I am interested in seeing what becomes of the roof and the caulk job.

I don't believe his issues had anything to do with nucamp quality or production issues.    But everything to do with a bad RV dealer.

Hats off to nucamp for dealing with it a heroic time frame. 


@Bayliss my guess is they would have put bolts back in the swaybar holes and new owner would have been none the wiser.   Beside then they could charge them for the sway bar install.

gspdx

@idletab, I am so glad you brought this up here.  I know this is an extremely stressful situation for you but hopefully you will get this resolved to your satisfaction.  Getting the sway bar included would be fine, but I would keep and eye on it and make sure they install the same brand of bar and not drill more holes in your frame.

As far as the roof, it just looks like they did some damage that can't be undone. I also see what looks like cut marks that run as a right angle and are not completely covered by the sealant.  Not really sure since I am just looking at a photo.  You might want to stress that this damage should have been considered in the sale and you would not have purchased it as a new unit with this type of damage.  Maybe you can get some kind of monetary compensation.

This could happen to anybody.  It's important for us as consumers to stay vigilant.  Your info here helps all of us.

Marceline

@idletab-
If you decide to accept a resolution that involves you keeping the trailer IMO you should get something for the dents- at minimum something in writing saying that they will cover the cost of any future issues (roof leaks? cracks?) arising from the roof damage. If they don’t want to offer that warranty some money back on your purchase price. Or maybe the dealer bears the cost of an extended warranty for that trailer.  A “new” trailer shouldn’t have dents.

N7SHG_Ham

If you wanted a sway bar, then OK, no cost to you, if you didn't, then new trailer!

The dents, I would get a discount of whatever the factory would charge for a new roof, should be somewhere around $5k, then if you want to get the roof fixed, OK, otherwise you got a "new" Tab for a good price with some existing damage.

Other alternative would be a new trailer and they sell this one as used.

ChrisFix

The trailer sway bar is cheap - $50...so not much of a concession from the dealer, particularly since he already drilled your frame without your knowledge.
https://www.amazon.com/CURT-17200-Sway-Control-Kit/dp/B000HLO7QA/ref=sr_1_5?crid=XT8ML2E0R0TU&keywords=trailer+sway+bar&qid=1559239588&s=gateway&sprefix=trailer+sway%2Caps%2C214&sr=8-5
The story that it was installed for another customer might be true, but the amount of rust left behind indicates it was on there for a fair amount of time, so color me suspicious of that claim.
IMHO, the dealer owes your $$ to offset the damage to the roof. Would you have paid the same amount for the 400 if you knew it was damaged? I know I wouldn't have - and your resale is immediately affected by this damage. How much, I don't know, but it has a real value for certain.
Good luck with getting a resolution that works for you and enjoy your new 400 when you do!

utahusker

I would demand a replacement trailer, if it were me.  But, you aren't me 😀

gspdx

For what it is worth - I just bought a "used" 2019 T@B 400 BDL 2 weeks ago.  The original buyers purchased in January and never used it.  Never had water in it, never had the propane tank filled, tags and tape still on things.  We paid $6K less than we would have paid at a dealer for the same new.

idletab

Just to be clear, it does appear new inside besides the adjustment issues. Everything looks and smells clean. I'm very jealous of your good deal though. 

I definitely want compensation. Just not sure if a replacement is the right way to go, with the fight I'm sure that would entail.

gspdx

Just wanted to give you an example if you are going to try and negotiate some compensation. 

DenisP

It it sounds like you are heading towards a solution. It must give some comfort knowing that along with this group, NuCamp is giving full support. It also appears the dealer is on board and just need to come to terms. Best of luck. 

idletab

The dealer is definitely showing signs that they're willing to work with me on the basics, which is great! But we haven't worked out any solution or compensation for the roof, nor has NuCamp had the chance to tell me whether this dent impacts my warranty or the integrity of the structure. I'm cautiously optimistic but there's still quite a few unknowns, and a new roof/trailer replacement definitely doesn't seem to be in the cards yet.

lkc001

@idletab  I missed seeing this post until today.   You have received some excellent feedback here.   I would like to add that I knew as soon as I saw your dealers name that there was probably shenanigans going on.  I went to that dealer twice while I was looking to purchase a Tab & both times got the skanky used car dealer vibe with at the least, uninformed information, and worst, outright lies to questions I asked of my salesman/manager.  I always ask questions I already know the answer to or already have expectation of a reasonable offer, etc.  They failed.   I have posted the name of that dealer here and on another Tab forum before.   I ended up going all the way to Colorado Springs (I live in Northglenn) to Sun City Trailers to purchase mine.  That is how much I distrust Windish in Longmont.    I would demand a TRADE for a truly NEW RV if that's what you paid for, because that is not what you got.   them not knowing about the holes drilled in the frame and that may be some delamination going on up on the roof and not just a "dent".    I would play hard ball and keep nucamp in the loop and/or use them to get you what you paid for in good faith!  Best of luck.

edited for language — Verna, T@B Admin

rcuomo

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that a sway bar was previously installed. And yes you can reinstall a sway bar using those holes but I would use bolts not the normal self tapping screws that commonly come with the kit. 

easttntab

Automotive  body shops routinely pull dent. I would think it's doable.

atlasb

The roof material is aluminum so it might take a special body shop or one working on ford trucks.  The Aluminum stretches if I remember correctly.

idletab

When we showed up to the dealership, they had no record of our request despite confirming a date and time with the service manager. They said they would never have been able to recaulk the roof in that amount of time anyways, so we left on our trip unfixed.

NuCamp has also told us they did not cause the damage nor will they repair or assist with compensation in any way. Not totally sure how I'm feeling about NuCamp CS right now.

mreric

i had a bit of a scratch  on the window to my " new unit"     well it did not look new,  i asked for the reasonable compensation where we were both happy.  i was willing to live with the scratch as the compensation was satisfactory.    can you live with the dents?    

some of the caulking on my 320 was not great either,   right off the factory,  i got a free tube of caulk and did it myself to my liking.  aesthetic pleasing look.   i would suggest the same.   i dont make a huge deal out of stuff that i can repair myself in a few minutes

Sharon_is_SAM

@idletab, so sorry you have had a crummy dealer experience.  Unfortunately, not all TaB dealers are equal when it comes to customer service and it is a good idea to keep nuCamp informed of the results.  NuCamp can’t control the dealership behavior and I can’t say that I blame them for not covering the repair that has nothing to do with the build quality.  Upon return from your trip, make another appointment in person, get it in writing from the service manager and sales manager.  

Ratkity

easttntab said:

Automotive  body shops routinely pull dent. I would think it's doable.

I think it's called paintless dent repair. They use a little bit of heat and pressure to pull out a dent because metal wants to go back to the shape it was molded to originally. Not sure it will work on a curved roof, but I've seen it work on a curved bumper on a truck and I'm a convert!!

webers3

@Sharon_is_SAM "NuCamp can’t control the dealership behavior" Really? Amazing how much bad service RV owners tolerate when it comes to dealers and manufactures that they would not tolerate in any other area of business.