Official statement from Scott Hubble concerning the Air8 air conditioner

VernaVerna Administrator Posts: 5,674
Scott Hubble is the CEO of nüCamp RV and he asked that I share the following with this forum and any other groups I am a member of. Please feel free to share it with any Facebook or other groups you belong to:

 nuCamp Friends and Family…

 

As you are aware, we stake our reputation on employing high quality components and taking care of the customer.  That means always doing the right thing – no matter what. 

 

One of the new changes for the 2020 TAB 400 was the implementation of the AIR8 Central AC/Dehumidifier.  This new unit not only offers the ability to dehumidify but lightened the tongue weight considerably, thus expanding the class of vehicles that could tow the 400 - along with allowing us to add the boondock platform for additional cargo.

 

In the early stages of the initial AIR8 investigation, we worked very closely with their management and were extremely intentional with heat chamber testing.  The results were fantastic and the prototype was approved for manufacturing.  As the 400’s made their way off of dealer’s lots and onto the highways, byways, state & national parks, campgrounds and ultimately new owner’s driveways, we received a handful of warranty claims for ‘performance issues.’  As with any claim, we immediately began investigating them alongside AIR8 management and Air Conditioning Engineers.  When our investigation was complete, there was no one single issue that could be identified the reason for lack of performance.  The only consistent observation that could be made was to increase airflow.  Undeterred by the lack of specificity, AIR8 made the commitment to nuCamp and the entire nuCamp family to further examine, reengineer and increase the overall performance of the AIR8. 

 

Of the hundreds of units we produced, there are fewer than 10 claims for units not performing adequately.  AIR8 has communicated to us that they stand 100% behind every unit that have been produced to date.  As a partner of ours, we stand behind AIR8.  Furthermore, AIR8 has agreed that where a unit has been identified, tested and verified as unable to perform as intended, the unit will be replaced with a upgraded unit.

 

Anyone considering a purchase of a 2020 TAB 400 should do so with confidence.  We are a family and will always take care of each other.”


By the way, Scott Hubble mentions “there are fewer than 10 claims for units not performing adequately”. 


IF your Air8 on the [email protected] 400 is not performing adequately, you must contact your dealer to have them take care of your warranty claim. If you want to double check to make sure your [email protected] 400 is on a warranty claim list, send an email to [email protected] and to [email protected] Be sure to have your VIN available to reference it in any correspondence, plus your dealer’s name. 

Above all, be nice, please. The nüCamp workers are doing their job and will do everything they can to get your Air8 problems rectified. 

Verna, Columbus, IN, 2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite white/red, towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost; [email protected] Administrator
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Comments

  • jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 5,763
    This is the key, right here:

    "Of the hundreds of units we produced, there are fewer than 10 claims for units not performing adequately.  AIR8 has communicated to us that they stand 100% behind every unit that have been produced to date.  As a partner of ours, we stand behind AIR8.  Furthermore, AIR8 has agreed that where a unit has been identified, tested and verified as unable to perform as intended, the unit will be replaced with a upgraded unit."

    Isolated problems, not widespread, both companies standing 100% behind their products. 

    2015 320 S | [email protected] Nights: 211 | 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk

  • davegctdavegct Member Posts: 18
    It was good that the CEO addressed the issue, but to me the message still leaves questions:
    1) what units are going in new 2020 TAB 400 - the original Air8, or the upgraded unit that is mentioned?
    2) what is the plan for 2021 model year - the original Air8, the upgraded unit or something else?

    i have sent customer care an email to try and get more clarity.
  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 98
    It's good to know that this issue has generated sufficient noise as to get to Scott, but the response doesn't really address the core question of how is a 6K-8K BTU Air8 supposed to be sufficient to cool the [email protected], when in the past a 13.5K BTU Coolcat was required. And to me the bigger question is what is the "upgraded unit" and is that now the new default unit for the 2020 and future 2021 [email protected] units?
    "Furthermore, AIR8 has agreed that where a unit has been identified, tested and verified as unable to perform as intended, the unit will be replaced with a upgraded unit."
    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 [email protected] 400 Boondock!
    2020 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
  • TexT@bers[email protected] Member Posts: 13
    So happy to see the AC discussion being addressed by nucamp.  We love our Tab 320S but have been considering going a little larger with either The Little Guy Max or [email protected] Living in Texas, the AC unit is very important to us.  Will wait and see how this issue resolves before making a decision.
    2015 [email protected] Sofitel 
  • TNOutbackTNOutback Member Posts: 326
    ChrisFix said:
    It's good to know that this issue has generated sufficient noise as to get to Scott, but the response doesn't really address the core question of how is a 6K-8K BTU Air8 supposed to be sufficient to cool the [email protected], when in the past a 13.5K BTU Coolcat was required. And to me the bigger question is what is the "upgraded unit" and is that now the new default unit for the 2020 and future 2021 [email protected] units?
    "Furthermore, AIR8 has agreed that where a unit has been identified, tested and verified as unable to perform as intended, the unit will be replaced with a upgraded unit."
    Someone please correct me, but I think the Cool Cat is 11,500 BTU, not 13,500. Also, if the job can be done with less, then I like that too, and probably means a single 2,000 or 2250 Watt generator could power the a/c unit and other things. 
    2020 [email protected] 400 BDL w/ solar
    2016 F-150 4x4 Crew, 3.5L Ecoboost
    Middle Tennessee
    YNWA LFC
  • JCALDJCALD Member Posts: 72
    Less is great if it actually works.  I am interested in seeing results on a hot Texas day before I can agree that dramatically reducing cooling capacity is a good thing.  Still really glad we found a new 2019 with the CoolCat.
  • JCALDJCALD Member Posts: 72
    They should set a new Tab 400 with the improved Air8 at a dealer near Fort Worth Tx in July for a real world test.  If it can sustain 80 degrees when the ambient temp is over 100 degrees then they have a winner.  This would squelch any further discussion. 
  • Tundra57Tundra57 Member Posts: 434
    Since there are many discussions concerning the coolcat and how it just managed in Texas conditions. I fail to see how the air8 with much less cooling capacity can still do the job. I don't believe the unit can be that much more efficient than the coolcat.
    As for the generator issue, the biggest single problem is startup current for the compressor. If you fit an after market soft start which significantly reduces startup current (or maybe Nucamp should as an option) then you can run the coolcat with a 2200 generator and it gives a longer runtime too.
    I believe Nucamp had the best of intentions and performing in a regulated oven to test cooler ability, obviously this time it was not a good real world test. The important thing is Nucamp is willing to fix the problem.
    Also although Nucamp says only 10 units have problems, if you search our discussions here you will find way more owners have complaints or concerns than the 10 mentioned.
    I like my coolcat thanks. :-).
    I also think is was sad that the heat pump option went away. I have used mine often in chilly weather and love it.
    I own a 2019 tab 400 boondock manufactured in December 2018 which I picked up new in June 2019.

  • AirBossAirBoss Member Posts: 159
    Been emailing with Aaron in NuCamp warranty dept. He indicated he'll be sending out a kit to make upgrades to my 2020 400. Seems straight forward but believe I'll have dealer make repairs as they ha e another smaller issue to take of as well.

    He also said he is playing phone tag with Elwell folks regarding the Air8. Not sure what that means but I'll stay tuned. I've not used the Air8 as yet but was curious based on threads on this forum.

    No engineer here but dropping BTU output by a factor of 50% (+/-) does seem problematic. Proof is in the puddin'! 
    2019 [email protected] 400 Stndrd w/solar;3-way fridge
    '04 Chevy Tahoe Z71 5.3L Dino-killer
    San Diego, CA
    www.vividimagex.com
    www.airbossone.com
  • davegctdavegct Member Posts: 18
    @AirBoss can you advise what the upgrades are that the kit is to be used for?
  • AirBossAirBoss Member Posts: 159
    Haven't received it yet but I believe it consists of screens and a deflector that routes exhaust air away from the air intake under the trailer. Could be wrong on that but advise once it arrives. Likely pertains to the Service Bulletin posted on this forum. 
    2019 [email protected] 400 Stndrd w/solar;3-way fridge
    '04 Chevy Tahoe Z71 5.3L Dino-killer
    San Diego, CA
    www.vividimagex.com
    www.airbossone.com
  • RFraerRFraer Member Posts: 13

    We appreciate the statement from Scott Hubble and it has eased some of our concerns but we still have reservations.  Last October we purchased a 2020 Tab 400BD with the Air8 AC unit (with vent kit). We noticed that with outside temperatures in the mid 80’s the Air8 was constantly running and struggled to keep the interior cool (74°). We have not contacted Nucamp because we have not used the camper in Summer temperatures but anticipate that temperatures in the 90’s will overwhelm our Air8. I would like to know what are the parameters for considering a Air8 to be  “unable to perform as intended”?

    In the vent kit service bulletin it gives performance diagnostic:

    Turn on Air 8 to cool. Crack open roof fan exhaust vent. Check cabin temperature in 20min. If it is not 10°F lower than the outside temperature inside the cabin, proceed with repair procedure. If cabin cools to 20°F or more below the enviromental temperature within 3hrs, the Air8 is within the acceptable working range.

    This is the test I will use when on our next camping trip were we have temps over 85°.

    I would also like to know what has changed with the upgraded Air8 unit?


  • VernaVerna Administrator Posts: 5,674
    By the way, Scott Hubble mentions “there are fewer than 10 claims for units not performing adequately”. 

    IF your Air8 on the [email protected] 400 is not performing adequately, you must contact your dealer to have them take care of your warranty claim. If you want to double check to make sure your [email protected] 400 is on a warranty claim list, send an email to [email protected] and to [email protected] Be sure to have your VIN available to reference it in any correspondence, plus your dealer’s name. 

    Above all, be nice, please. The nüCamp workers are doing their job and will do everything they can to get your Air8 problems rectified. 

    Thanks

    Verna
    [email protected] Admin


    Verna, Columbus, IN, 2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite white/red, towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost; [email protected] Administrator
  • tepe50tepe50 Member Posts: 22
    I am one of the people that have not complained yet officially I will be after this next trip if it doesn’t perform better than it did on the last trip. That trip I ended up at the factory for a warranty repair which they took care of my axle quickly. I did not use the air conditioning until later in the trip or else I would’ve said something to them at the factory. Unfortunately now my microwave started acting up which I’ve never used it seems to come on and run all by itself when plug in. Three days before I leave for a trip. 
    2020 tab 400 BDL & 2013 siver shadow 5x10
  • tabiphiletabiphile Member Posts: 174
    @Caschetta speaks to the point very succinctly. Scott's letter assumes a very defensive position while projecting positive intent. The message is very mixed and not confidence building. "Identified, tested, verified"...no, there is a problem. It has been verified, tested and verified. There have been enough customers reporting this so that the expectation should be, "yes, we have seen this issue, it is due to the underperformance of the Air8. Contact us and report your dissatisfaction and we will take care of it without any hesitation..." 
  • davegctdavegct Member Posts: 18
    i received a response today from Nucamp (Raphael) regarding the questions I asked.  As many on this forum are interested in this issue I thought I’d summarize the responses:

    Q: What AC unit is going in the latest production run [email protected] 400s?
    A: The original AIR 8 with the expectation that the new model, which is in production, will be released in the first quarter of this year. 

    Q: What are the AC unit plans for the 2021 Model Year?
    A: Still finalizing the build on the 2021 models and its policy to not release details of model year changes until the production model is finalized and production has begun. 

    Raphael reiterated that overall (so far) there has been a limited number of units that they have seen fail and have confidence that the majority of the AIR 8 units will operate as designed. They will stand by those units to resolve any issues that arise. 

    The message ended with “If you look back at the history of our company, you will find that we do not abandon our customers. We genuinely care about our customers and will do the right thing”.

    I appreciated the Nucamp response - they could have chosen not to respond to my questions.
  • TNOutbackTNOutback Member Posts: 326
    I don’t think anything has “failed’ in my Air8 unit; it is simply undersized with a couple of critical implementation issues (thermocouple location, exhaust design) that further handicapped the performance.  As another forum member stated, I’m sure there are others who have not seen these issues due to the climate they live and travel in.  I would not expect an owner in Texas or Tennessee to have the same Air8 experience as an owner in, say, the Pacific Northwest or a New England state.

    I am hopeful and confident they will get these issues sorted, and look forward to camping next summer.
    2020 [email protected] 400 BDL w/ solar
    2016 F-150 4x4 Crew, 3.5L Ecoboost
    Middle Tennessee
    YNWA LFC
  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 711
    RFraer said:

    . . . purchased a 2020 Tab 400BD with the Air8 AC unit (with vent kit). 

    In the vent kit service bulletin it gives performance diagnostic :

      Turn on Air 8 to cool. Crack open roof fan exhaust vent.
      Check cabin temperature in 20min. If it is not 10°F lower than the outside temperature inside
        the cabin, proceed with repair procedure.
      If cabin cools to 20°F or more below the enviromental temperature within 3hrs, the Air8
        is within the acceptable working range.

    Very Helpful information.  We all should try this at different Outside Temperature.
    2018 [email protected] 320 Spitched axle, 3020HE
    TV: 2017 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  23       Nights:  155 
  • CbusguyCbusguy Member Posts: 777
    Radiant chamber testing is fine.....But direct summer sun exposure is blistering especially in the south.   
    2009 GMC Canyon,   3.7 liter 
    2020 320s Boondock lite, With Lots of mods
  • cottonmouthcottonmouth Member Posts: 48
    I have a 400bdl being built now. I'm concerned about this issue. Jason reached out to me with a similar note to Scott's above. My question back to Jason was whether the new runs of 400s would receive the upgraded/re-engineered Air8s, and what is the BTU rating of the improved units. I'll wait to hear back before I make a final decision on whether to move forward with purchase. 
    2021 [email protected] 400 BDL aka Little Joe
    2019 Tundra Crewmax aka Hoss
    SE Louisiana
  • davegctdavegct Member Posts: 18
    @cottonmouth the answer to your question i got from Raphael at Nucamp was that new 400s coming off the line right now have the original Air8, with the upgraded units coming sometime in Q1.  I’ll be interested to hear what you are told.
  • jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 5,763
    Verna said:
    By the way, Scott Hubble mentions “there are fewer than 10 claims for units not performing adequately”. 

    IF your Air8 on the [email protected] 400 is not performing adequately, you must contact your dealer to have them take care of your warranty claim. If you want to double check to make sure your [email protected] 400 is on a warranty claim list, send an email to [email protected] and to [email protected] Be sure to have your VIN available to reference it in any correspondence, plus your dealer’s name. 

    Above all, be nice, please. The nüCamp workers are doing their job and will do everything they can to get your Air8 problems rectified. 

    Thanks

    Verna
    [email protected] Admin


    I think the important point is that that were fewer than 10 reported problems. Does that mean that some likely did not report, sure, but it also means that there are hundreds if not thousands of people who know nothing g if the problem because they are neither forum not FB members and they have not reported it, either. 

    It appears to be a somewhat isolated problem and probably no more of of an issue than other appliances would have.

    If you really have a question about the capability of the unit to cool the cabin, why not email tech support at nuCamp? The people who build, design, and support these trailers know what they are doing and will be able to provide you with a good explanation. 

    2015 320 S | [email protected] Nights: 211 | 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk

  • cottonmouthcottonmouth Member Posts: 48
    So I've read the message from Mr. Hubble, and I've read a few stories from customers who are disappointed with the performance of the Air8. However, I haven't read many positive reviews. I'd be interested in reading some positive experiences with the Air8 after the kit was installed and preferably during hot, humid weather. I think there's a stronger tendency for people to complain than to praise during instances like this, so I wanted to hear from satisfied owners, especially from the nuCamp 400 owners. Any nuCamp 400 owners satisfied with the Air8 performance out there?
    2021 [email protected] 400 BDL aka Little Joe
    2019 Tundra Crewmax aka Hoss
    SE Louisiana
  • JCALDJCALD Member Posts: 72
    So I've read the message from Mr. Hubble, and I've read a few stories from customers who are disappointed with the performance of the Air8. However, I haven't read many positive reviews. I'd be interested in reading some positive experiences with the Air8 after the kit was installed and preferably during hot, humid weather. I think there's a stronger tendency for people to complain than to praise during instances like this, so I wanted to hear from satisfied owners, especially from the nuCamp 400 owners. Any nuCamp 400 owners satisfied with the Air8 performance out there?
    We are 2019 Tab 400 owners and purchased it in October of 2019 specifically because of the Air8 issues on the 2020 and beyond Tab400s.  I will be really interested in response to cottonmouth’s question some time in mid July when current 2020 owners report real world performance results to NuCamp and the forum members.
  • Redfish24Redfish24 Member Posts: 25
    edited February 9
    So I've read the message from Mr. Hubble, and I've read a few stories from customers who are disappointed with the performance of the Air8. However, I haven't read many positive reviews. I'd be interested in reading some positive experiences with the Air8 after the kit was installed and preferably during hot, humid weather. I think there's a stronger tendency for people to complain than to praise during instances like this, so I wanted to hear from satisfied owners, especially from the nuCamp 400 owners. Any nuCamp 400 owners satisfied with the Air8 performance out there?

    Absolutely agree.   I am hanging on the fence right now on a 2020 for this very reason. Its the perfect trailer with options and colors the wife wants.  Those color changes ( inside and out ) in 2021 don't excite her. Even though I can order a 2021 for a $1000 more with possibly a better AC its an ongoing discussion in this house.   I like others, am afraid on ongoing issues, declining values, and possible residual issues in the 2020.   We are waiting impatiently and hoping good news is revealed soon.


  • TABakerTABaker Member Posts: 417
    I am hoping for a return to the Cool Cat in the 400.  I am in my 10th year of owning my [email protected] and I absolutely love that Cool Cat.  The negatives are noise, and the fact that the default is heat mode, and some have had the unit kick on in heat and continue to run, especially as units become old.  I've learned to live with the noise, and the fact that thing can absolutely freeze you out in upper 90 temps trumps the noise hands down.  I  love the fact that the Cool Cats being installed apparently do not have heat mode.  I wasn't aware Dometic made one that was air only, and I hope to purchase one when mine dies.
    Crystal & Daisy, a yellow 2007 [email protected] Q previously towed by a 2008 Jeep Liberty, and currently towed by a 2016 RAM 1500.

  • N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 831
    @TABaker the Cool Cats installed in the 400's through the 2019's can both heat and cool.
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
  • JCALDJCALD Member Posts: 72
    My 2019 400 CoolCat does both heat a cool which I really like.  The heat pump function enables you to quickly heat the trailer while the Alde catches up.  I also really like the Alde heat as well.  So nice to have options.
  • tepe50tepe50 Member Posts: 22
    I just got back from a trip down to Florida and  the Air8  just would not cool the trailer down even in 80° temperatures. This is the first time I really got to use it since I bought the unit last summer. My initial driveway test last year I was not impressed I thought I’d give a second chance. It seems to work very hard and get nothing done. But it looks like they’ve changed back to the previous unit cool cat. Hopefully they come up with an acceptable solution Not just a Band-Aid fix
    2020 tab 400 BDL & 2013 siver shadow 5x10
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