Official statement from Scott Hubble concerning the Air8 air conditioner

Dutch061

If these are truly the Truma units from Germany, the larger unit on their website is 2.4 kW or just over 8200 BTU's with a Heat Pump. It will be interesting to see if that is what is actually installed or not, in my case I think the additional BTU and properly locating the ambient sensor will take care of any issues I may have. But then again, I haven't been in full sun yet trying to keep it cool in hot weather either.

Brad

TNOutback

jkjenn said:

I am reaching out about having to manually reset the AC if the power goes out.

@jkjenn there is a battery backup optional accessory that maintains backup power to the control panel - if that is what you are after.

grsiepka

ChrisFix said:

The 2021 Coolcat is back up front under the driver's side dinette bench where it used to be. And I agree that area would be awesome storage.

So if the 2021's are coming with the Coolcat again, why is NuCamp even bothering with the "new improved Air8+"  to retrofit into the 2020 400's

jkjenn

I received clarification from Elwell that there is no way to auto.atically restart the AC, so pet owners should make note. Probably better to leave the pets with windows open and fan running, if at all possible or take them with you.

AirBoss

Dutch061 said:

If these are truly the Truma units from Germany, the larger unit on their website is 2.4 kW or just over 8200 BTU's with a Heat Pump. It will be interesting to see if that is what is actually installed or not, in my case I think the additional BTU and properly locating the ambient sensor will take care of any issues I may have. But then again, I haven't been in full sun yet trying to keep it cool in hot weather either.

Brad

@Dutch061
I've reached out to Elwell with that same question but have not heard back. Found that unit on line and sent the link asking if this is the replacememt. 

Will advise if I hear back...

johnfconway

grsiepka said:

So if the 2021's are coming with the Coolcat again, why is NuCamp even bothering with the "new improved Air8+"  to retrofit into the 2020 400's

Hopefully it is because nuCamp sells amazing, high-end trailers and it would do no one any good to not right a technology error.

AirBoss

@grsiepka
The CoolCat is too tall to sit under the bed in the footprint of the Air8. Relocating a CoolCat to the dinette in the 2020 would be a fairly major mod (wiring, ducting, etc.) and it would not be beneficial to the current tongue weight calculus of the 2020 and would rob the 2020 400's affected of a large storage compartment. 

I'm confident that Elwell and nuCamp will make this right to the greatest extent possible. 

TNOutback

I received a call from Elwell this afternoon.  Sounds like things are progressing in a good direction.

rh5555

Elwell now have a fix so that the fan runs continuously (at your selected speed) with the compressor cycling in and out as needed when in cooling mode.  This should help a lot!  I was a beta-tester and it works well - just waiting for some hot weather to put it through its paces.  Stay tuned.

Travelin3D

This is good news. Do you know what the fix consists of? I hope this will apply to the 320’s as well. I have a 320 BDL with the Air8 and on a recent month-long trip to the Midwest and back the A/C got a real workout. The cooling capacity was good but the cycling on and off gets old pretty quickly. My only other complaint is that the fan speeds should more accurately be labeled MED, HIGH and READY FOR TAKEOFF. A truly low fan speed would definitely be more pleasant.

Since the complaints have been with the 400, I hope the 320’s won’t be left out in the “cold.” 😉

AirBoss

@Travelin3D
I'd suggest contacting nuCamp and/or Elwell for clarification of the scope of these tests and prospective replacements. Best of my knowledge, it's been only the 400's as the larger cubic footage of the 400's seem to push the Air8 beyond it's capabilities. 

And I take your point regarding the fan. Makes sure your seat backs and tray-tables are in their full upright and locked position!  

Mouseketab

While I don't have a 400 and probably never will. All I'm hearing is they will fixt the Air8 to run to expected specifications, and what I'm hearing is those expected specifications is to cool the unit only about 20 degrees. As many have said, on a 100 degree day, 80 is too hot. The CoolCat can get my trailer to 60, and that's what I want

AirBoss

Well, we are about to find out pretty soon. 

I'll keep ya' posted. 

rh5555

@Travelin3D, the fix is a software change to system parameter.  It is done through the touch panel.  I would think it is equally applicable to the 320.

Travelin3D

@rh5555 thanks, I would think so too. I will try to reach out to nuCamp/Elwell for some clarification.

jhooper1

Newbie. 2nd trip out. 2020 400BDL. Cna't find answer elsewhere. Air8 seems to cool okay in 90+ degree weather in Missouri. But, it cycled on and off, often all night long, keeping me awake. Any tips? Thanks.

Whipster1

Don't have one but on our 2019 T@B 400 BDL we have a USB fan that we point toward the thermostat and it moderates the air temp in the trailer and controls our on/off issues.  It's a $20 option you might try.  Works for us.

Denny16

Air8 is coming out with a mod to change this, register your Air8 with the nuCamp Warranty dept. to get the upcoming mods for the Air8 to improve its functionality in the TaB400.
cheers

AirBoss

@jhooper1
Elwell is field testing an upgraded Air8. As @Denny16 indicated, contact warranty folks at nuCamp and get your name on the list. 

Two items in the works are relocating the "thermostat" for the unit so it senses ambient air temps with better acuracy and installing upgraded Air8 a/c units. 

In the mean time, yes, the USB fan is a work-around. Many different models out there. I went with the Opolar 8" USB w/110V adapter so you have options.

Good luck...

ADRawli

We have a 2019 400 with the Cool Cat AC, so it’s not exactly an “apples-to-apples” comparison by any means, but I will say that even the Cool Cat cycles on and off regularly to keep things at temp.  

2 points to make, and take these as only as you might deem relevant as applicable to the Air 8:

1) If the Air 8 has this option as the CC does, you can chose to set your fan to Low or High at all times (vs Automatic, which turns the fan on/off).  The fan will stay running at that speed, and only the AC compressor would kick on/off to cool the constant fan driven air.  That might be less disruptive as you sleep.  We leave ours on automatic as we’ve grown used to the on/off.  But of course, we’re not sleeping directly on the unit either, since the CC is under our dinette vs under the bed as is the Air 8.

2) This may not apply, depending on the confusing conversations I’ve been hearing on the exact placement of the thermostat temp sensor with the Air 8, but I’ll share it anyway.  We find that directing the vent‘s airflow away from the thermostat has an impact on how frequently our Cool Cat cycles.  If we direct it right at the thermostat, then that air cools very quickly, but also warms up very quickly as well after the CC shuts off.   So, we find much more rapid cycling with that option.  When we direct the air away from the thermostat, I believe it cools everything else in the trailer “first”, then finally once the air near the thermostat is also cool, shuts it down.  Since all areas are cooler relative to that space by the thermostat, it seems to take a lot longer for everything then to warm back up.  This means that it cycles less frequently, staying both on and off for longer periods of time.  I think we also can set the thermostat a bit higher in temp when we do it that way as it seems to maintain more comfort throughout the space.

Keep in mind these are not scientific assessments, only more anecdotal in nature per our experience.  I realize you Air 8 owners are awaiting a more comprehensive solution to what appears to be a woefully under-capable design at current, so hopefully all will be addressed with those upcoming Elwell mods, but maybe doing something similar to what we do will at least help a bit in the meantime.  I’m rooting for you all, to be sure.

Dutch061

rh5555 said:

Elwell now have a fix so that the fan runs continuously (at your selected speed) with the compressor cycling in and out as needed when in cooling mode.  This should help a lot!  I was a beta-tester and it works well - just waiting for some hot weather to put it through its paces.  Stay tuned.

By doing this, they are forcing air past the ambient temperature sensor that s located in the inlet side of the unit to keep a "more accurate reading" of the air temperature inside the camper. Although not a true fix, it is a good temporary move until the rest is decided on how to take care of it.

A true fix would involve relocating the ambient temperature sensor outside of the air inlet of the air conditioning unit. Ideally, that sensor would be located in or near the control panel like it is in any other temperature controlled system unless it is set up for remote temperature monitoring. Adding the option for a continuous fan operation and compressor cycling, is a bonus and I agree that it would be a better option than having the entire unit turn on and off all night.

I have stated from the beginning that I thought the BTU's in our 2020 400 BDL may be sufficient but without being able to monitor inside temperature accurately that it is very difficult to truly gauge the function.

Brad

 

rh5555

Here is the video on how to re-program the AIR8 on both 320s and 400s as provided by Elwell.

A few things of note:

• You need to start the whole process with the AIR8 turned off and with the TAB connected to shore power
  
• You have to be reasonably fast when keying in the codes - it times out if you're not quick enough
• When I did this, it seemed that it took longer than 3 seconds for the system to enter programming mode (the first step) so be patient
  
• When I did this, I found that when entering the 8699 code, I had to press the triangle button after entering the final 9 before pressing the power button.  It could also be that I was too slow to press the power button the first time I tried, and it timed out on me.  The second time worked fine – I cannot say if it was the extra press of the triangle, or if I’d gotten faster at pushing the buttons.

Good luck everyone!

Dutch061

@rh5555, Thank you for the link to the video! I will update mine tonight and see if I can test it tomorrow.

***Edit*** Simple change to make and it definitely made a difference due to having air flow across the ambient temperature sensor continuously which allows a much more accurate temperature reading.

Brad

johnfconway

Minor point. Shore power on and Elwell off. Start pressing fan and double triangle buttons together with Elwell off to start reprogramming process.

Super hot today even at 6100 ft. elevation. Cabin temperature is 105 degrees. I think the reprogramming worked, but it will be quite awhile before I can witness compressor off while fan runs on low.

Thanks for passing this on!

Dutch061

Okay, here is what I have experienced after making the programming changes that allows the fan to run continuously and my initial preparations and disclaimer.

1. I set the air conditioning to 74 degrees fan on low last night.

2. It is not a "true test" because I only used the Elwell display for my internal readings, so location of the ambient sensor is not accurate to the location of the control panel

3. External readings, I used a non contact infrared thermometer

4. Sun - Shade are visual and subjective

Based on my results that are displayed below, the change in the fan is not sufficient to be able to hold the set temperature in direct sun light. Of course the results would be way worse if you were to start out by traveling for a few hours getting a good thermal load before you attempted to cool the inside.

So, although it is much improved, I have to admit that I have been wrong about the unit being sufficient if the ability to more correctly read the ambient air temperature sensor issue was resolved. I for one, will be anxious to learn what AirBoss is "sworn to secrecy over" and look forward to an upgraded unit with additional BTU capabilities.

Short of additional BTU's, this just isn't going to work properly, I now know that for a fact. So giddyup Elwell, let's get this issue resolved once and for all, some have waited for over a year............

johnfconway

Dutch061 said:

1. I set the air conditioning to 74 degrees fan on low last night.

2. It is not a "true test" because I only used the Elwell display for my internal readings, so location of the ambient sensor is not accurate to the location of the control panel

3. External readings, I used a non contact infrared thermometer

4. Sun - Shade are visual and subjective

Disappointing! Were you in NC?  >50% relative humidity?

Couldn't help but notice that Mr. Elwell is an executive with Alde US. When you search Alde US, it's listed under Truma. Hope all of these interconnections yields the more robust Truma A/C unit as replacement. "Sleep mode" fan and heat exchanger would be nice!

Dutch061

@johnfconway , yes sir in NC and humidity at 38% currently as per weatherbug sitting in my back yard. Granted, an improvement over previous performance but will not suffice in the summers here or further south.

My confusion is that if this is actually a rebranded Truma unit, the Germans are usually way ahead on technology so this should have never been an issue unless of course the baseline calculations were simply wrong.

I would say that the roof is much better insulated on a Tab 400 than the 2017 Tab 320S we had because there is a lot less thermal transfer through the roof but the BTU's are simply not adequate to keep up.

Brad

AirBoss

@Dutch061
Curious if you used your infrared temp guage on the interior roof of your rig. Do you have factory solar installed? Just using the old hand contact test, I seem to notice a difference in tempurature where the panels are located vs. elsewhere around the roof. 

Dutch061

@AirBoss, I did not use it inside on the roof today but have done a few comparisons earlier this year and can safely say that the thermal transfer on our Tab 400 BDL is much less than our previous Tab 320S. Funny thing is that the air conditioner sucked in the Tab 320 too. Wait, maybe that isn't funny because I am admitting that I am not very smart. LOL....

If I remember correctly last summer when I checked the 320S, external was close to 150 in full sun and the internal was nearly 110. The only fortunate thing so far with the 400 BDL is that we have only gone to the mountains this year. There was thoughts of going to the Outer Banks but I don't care for the beach in the heat. People get in the water, sorry I saw Jaws in 1975 when it came out. There are things in that water that will turn you into excrement!

Brad

tepe50

I have similar results after the upgrade. Which is the same as before but the unit is still under powered. You can cover the windows with reflective heat shield but I didn't buy the camper so when I'm sitting in it I can look out the windows. It's just taking a way too long and I'm just about over it because it's summertime we can't really use the camper how we would like to.