Official statement from Scott Hubble concerning the Air8 air conditioner

ChrisFix

@Dutch061
Brad,
Chapel Hill here...and I feel for everyone struggling to stay cool in their beautifully designed and built campers.
I truly hope this gets fixed for those affected very soon.

AirBoss

@ChrisFix
It's a known issue and as long as those of use with underperforming Air 8's stay on the case with Elwell and nuCamp, I'm fairly confident it will end well. 

AirBoss

@Dutch061
Believe it's rated at 10.5BTU's. Which when compared with the purported upgraded Air 8 Plus is still 3000BTU's higher. 

RFraer

I think the air8 is 6.5k btu. We went camping this week in out 2020 and were miserable in Temps over 85 F. I was a engineer for almost 40s and made my share of mistakes but this takes the cake. It is such an obvious error and should have been discovered in the first hours of testing.

TNOutback

@Dutch061 here’s the answer to your question about the Cool Cat BTUs.  This screenshot from a new video on the 400 posted by NuCamp.  That’s a 69% increase in BTUs over the Air8; no wonder @ChrisFix is getting drastically better performance out of his unit!
(By the way, the Nucamp video is a beautifully-done tour of the 400!)

Dutch061

Well, as mentioned by several, it will need to be fixed to the level of satisfaction necessary for everyone involved. I believe that NuCamp will make it right, even if they have to trade people out of their existing camper(s) in order to do so, time will tell.

In theory, it should take less than 4200 BTU to cool a 400 based on square footage; this is for Zone (Region) 1 which is the southern half of the southern states, plus all of TX, New Orleans, and Florida (the warmest part of the USA). Of course this is for a building and not an RV, but 7 to 8K should be more than adequate.

Allegedly the Ari8 is 6000 BTU as per the manual that I have. It would be good to know where Elwell actually sourced these from, because Truma (Germany) makes a very similar unit that the standard size is 2.4 kW or just over 8200 BTU's. The smaller unit is just over 1.8 kW or 6100 BTU's. Somehow, I don't think these come from Germany but I could be wrong. If they do come from Germany, upgrading of units could also include a heat pump, which would be a great bonus.

Based on the testing I have done so far, I believe that a large part of my issue is related to ambient temperature sensor location. But again, I go to the higher country during the summer and generally don't need to have AC at all most of the time.

The truth will be know as soon as someone gets the upgraded unit from Elwell. Until then it is all speculation on whether or not it will be an acceptable repair.

Brad

***Edited to correct my error in calculations regarding BTU's and Elwell Specs***

AirBoss

@Dutch061
Agreed in large measure. Though the one calculation I ran indicated 6000BTU +/- to cool the cubic feet of a 400 in a hot climate with average insulation on a sunny day. Be that as it may, like you, I'm fairly confident Elwell and nuCamp will make it right. 

Curious if anyone has investigated the possibility of swaping out the Air 8 for the Cool Cat, in the same location (under the bed in 2020 400)? I know the dimensions don't match up exactly but curious if electrical and ducting could be modified along with a little wood-butchering to make the Cool Cat fit..unless it's also too tall. Seems that might be a show stopper more than LxW.

TNOutback

@AirBoss I believe the CC is too tall it fit in there.  intake/exhaust is all wrong too.

AirBoss

@TNOutback
Haven't looked both up but kinda suspected that was the case. So did nuCamp redesign the bed to accommodate the Cat or did they put it back up front? 

TNOutback

@AirBoss I believe it is back to where it used to be up front based on some videos I’ve seen. Performance aside, I really like having the a/c under the bed.  the space under the dinette seat is cavernous and much easier to access than the under bed space, especially when you have the bed made up with sheets, and in our case, a foam mattress topper.

ChrisFix

The 2021 Coolcat is back up front under the driver's side dinette bench where it used to be. And I agree that area would be awesome storage.

AirBoss

@TNOutback
@ChrisFix
Kinda figured as much. Yes, I like having the unit under the bed. Like you TN, bed is made up all the time with a 4" foam topper so I'd rather not have to go diving under there unless I absolutely have to. The dinette storage is a great space. Like to keep it on the light side to avoid extra tongue weight. 

AirBoss

To All:
Just heard from Elwell. They're working with nuCamp on finalizing the new Air 8+ installation and testing it under a wide variety of conditions (heat, humidity, etc.) to ensure that when they ship the upgraded units to dealers/customers, they statisfactorily resolve the known issues. 

Again, no timeline. They hope to have a timeline soon.

Basically, not much more than what we already knew but good to know all parties are efforting the situation. I expressed to them that while I don't wish to be a pain in the neck, history tells me that being ones own best advocate is the best course of action. 

If it happens before fall, great. If not, sounds as though we should be in good shape for 2021.  

TNOutback

@AirBoss hope they are testing in direct sunlight; that’s where I’ve seen the most problem.

TabberJohn

TNOutback said:

@AirBoss hope they are testing in direct sunlight; that’s where I’ve seen the most problem.

Also curious if they will test white versus silver campers. 

AirBoss

@TabberJohn
Assume you're referring to the color of the roof? Brought that up in another thread. I understand silver isn't in keeping with the color "pallet" of the rig, but white would most definitely be better. There's a reason most all RV's have white roofs after all. Would be too difficult to transition from silver to white at some point on the roof, then back to silver, so the appearance from the ground remains the same. Just me thinking outloud... 

As it stands I don't believe that's on the docket. For the time being, I've resorted to installing Reflectix insulation on the interior frames of the three large acrylic windows. It does help considerably. That, coupled with new vent grates, exhaust deflector, relocation of temp sensor, and more BTU's in the Air 8 Plus will, hopefully, result in a much more comfortable rig. 

It's obvious installing the Air 8 in the 400 was not the best move. The fact that they've moved back to the Cool Cat in 2021 and were willing to suffer some increased tongue weight to do it speaks to that point.

TNOutback

Also curious if they will test white versus silver campers.   

@AirBoss I think they already have.  Note that on 2021 models, body color option appear to only apply to the “side walls”; no longer the top. The top only comes in white.

AirBoss

Good...should have been done years ago. 

jkjenn

TNOutback said:

Also curious if they will test white versus silver campers.   

@AirBoss I think they already have.  Note that on 2021 models, body color only applies to the sides; no longer the top. The top only comes in white.

Nope. Silver, and I am glad

TNOutback

@jkjenn good to know;  the website options say “sidewall color”, so I assumed that only mean the sides.

jkjenn

Does anyone have an email address or phone number for Elwell? I have a question and their website seems to be down.

AirBoss

@jkjenn

jwelwell@elwellcorp.com

360.608.0916

jkjenn

Thanks @AirBoss!

AirBoss

They're based in Washogal, WA. I believe so PDT. 

CHIcampers

@jkjenn, are you by any chance reaching out to Elwell to check timing of when the  new air8's will be released for the 2020's?   This morning, I was told by the Emily in the Nucamp warranty team that Elwell is testing a new air8 to replace the units currently in the 2020 that are not working because of ventilation and sensor issues.  Basically it would still go under the bed as it is today but would correct the bad ventilation and running the sensor to another area out of the under-bed compartment.  Elwell would either send out a tech to do the install or we would be pointed in the direction of an authorized dealer to do the work.  So would be great to get more detail from Elwell directly, as well as, when the new improved air8's will be available.

AirBoss

@jkjenn
@CHIcampers

Yep, that's my understanding as well. Testing in various environments to ensure the updated version will resolve the issues. No timeline on that at this point. I understood that the sensor relocation may be separate from the installation of the new unit. But then I'd argue that if the new unti will follow relatively soon after the sensor is ready, one appointment to accomplish both would be a better way to go about it. 

jkjenn

I am reaching out about having to manually reset the AC if the power goes out.

AirBoss

@jkjenn
Ah, got it...keep us posted on what you find out.

Thanks!

CHIcampers

@AirBoss, thank you for all your comments on this thread....

"For the time being, I've resorted to installing Reflectix insulation on the interior frames of the three large acrylic windows. It does help considerably." 

     Could you send pics of "OTTO" with the Reflectix insulation?

"That, coupled with new vent grates, exhaust deflector, relocation of temp sensor, and more BTU's in the Air 8 Plus will, hopefully, result in a much more comfortable rig."

     Is it your understanding that all of this is what we can expect from what Elwell is working on right now?

AirBoss

@CHIcampers
I don't have a pic of it and I keep it in a storgage facility so don't have immediate access. Can tell you I use this Reflectix material. Also use Reflectix tape on all edges.  
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflectix-48-in-x-25-ft-Double-Reflective-Insulation-Roll-BP48025/100052556

I cut the material to fit along the edges of interior frame of each of the three acrylic windows and I keep the windows locked in the "vent" setting so there is some circulation in the gap between the window and the Reflectix. I used velcro in all corners (loop side on frame, hook side on Reflectix) and along the long edges of the frame to keep the Reflectix in place. 

Is it your understanding that all of this is what we can expect from what Elwell is working on right now?

The new vent grates and exhaust deflector came from nuCamp (shown here). Actually my rig (built in in Aug/Sep 2019) already had the grates installed at the factory. nuCamp sent me the deflector after I contacted Aaron in Warranty. Easy to install with 6 screws (provided).


Elwell is working on developing an upgraded Air8 A/C unit (Air8 Plus). Plan in that they will provide techs who will swap out the units and install the relocated sensor as well. 

That's what I understand at this time. Obviously that may change over time.