Official statement from Scott Hubble concerning the Air8 air conditioner

Verna

Thanks, @ChrisFix. I removed it. We just have to watch out for the potential for fraud today, don’t we.

crohrbacher

@ChrisFix Thanks. Didn't think of that.

crohrbacher

@Verna Thanks for taking care of that!

[Deleted User]

Why can't a Cool Cat be installed in place of the Air8 and would it cool that much better?   I plan to run a generator  driving in 100+ air temp and 140 degree pavement temperatures and run the air conditioner as necessary in the Trailer as I have before in motor homes during the summer for several days driving on Interstate 10 and 8 through Texas, New Mexico and Arizona to the Pacific Coast without going into motels, restaurants, and public restrooms. The 400 to me is a means of travel during the pandemic which could go on for a long time.  

AirBoss

Curious how you plan to "run a generator" while you're driving. 

Denny16

@Rich1941. A CoolCat AC is larger than the Air 8, and has a back condenser setup like a window AC.  The Air 8 is under the bed, no back access for vents, to cool the condenser.  The CoolCat was mounted under the drivers side dinette seat, with the cooling vent on the drivers side of the trailer.  You could retrofit a CoolCat back in its original location, and remove the Air8, but the holes left in the floor would need to be sealed.
cheers 

[Deleted User]

AirBoss said:

Curious how you plan to "run a generator" while you're driving. 

I'm investigating small lite propane generator secured beside propane tanks in front to charge batteries and upgrade inverter to power AC for short periods. I also have an A/C outlet in my telluride TV to exploit,  Am close to canceling my order for 2021 400 standard boondocker because the A8+ design will never work in Texas summers.  IMO the 400 needs a properly sized roof air unit like their Cirius Truck Campers. A floor unit without ducting violates the law of physics that hot ar rises and cold air drops that a roof unit take advantage of. Roof air solves their  problem with hitch weight( weights and balance) that they tried to fix by moving from cool cat forward port side to smaller BTU A8 aft center. 

[Deleted User]

Denny16 said:

@Rich1941. A CoolCat AC is larger than the Air 8, and has a back condenser setup like a window AC.  The Air 8 is under the bed, no back access for vents, to cool the condenser.  The CoolCat was mounted under the drivers side dinette seat, with the cooling vent on the drivers side of the trailer.  You could retrofit a CoolCat back in its original location, and remove the Air8, but the holes left in the floor would need to be sealed.
cheers 

 @ Denny16. Am close to canceling my order for 2021 400 standard boondocker because the A8+ design will never work in Texas summers.  IMO the 400 needs a properly sized roof air unit like their Cirrus Truck Campers. A floor unit without ducting violates the law of physics that hot rises and cold air drops that a roof unit takes advantage of. Roof air solves their problem with hitch weight (weights and balance) that they tried to fix by moving from cool cat forward port side to smaller BTU A8 or A8+aft center.  

TNOutback

@Rich1941 NuCamp switched back to the Cool Cat for the 2021 model.

[Deleted User]

TNOutback said:

@Rich1941 NuCamp switched back to the Cool Cat for the 2021 model.

@TNOutback, thanks there's hope and I need to see where they put it, how they cooled compressor coils and any ducting for cool air vents and return air to be cooled. @TNOutback you made my day.

ChrisFix

@Rich1941
The 2021 T@B 400 has the Coolcat exactly where it had always been...under the driverside dinette bench. And it works perfectly, even with the trailer in direct sun in NC with 95+ degrees and high humidity. There is no reason I can think of to need it running while traveling to cool the camper. The Coolcat will cool it down in very little time once you make camp - as in 15 minutes or less. I'm talking from experience with a 2021 400.
And while I'm contributing to this thread hijack - this discussion should be in a different thread.

Denny16

I concur with Chris on this, the CoolCat is more than adequate to cool the TaB400, and was used without any issues in 2018 p/19 models, only the 2020 model has the Air8.  You would need a generator unmute AC while driving, it takes 120VAC at 20 amps to run, so the minimum would be a Honda 2200i or a 3KW unit from other manufacturers.  A roof mounted AC would be difficult to install due to the roof curve.

Cheers 

grsiepka

So myself, and from what can see on one of the Nucamp FB pages many others, are on a list to have the AC unit fixed/replaced.   How many replacements has Elwell completed? I think 2 people in this thread right? 

AirBoss

I believe Elwell installed four Air 8 Plus units around the country to test in differing climates. One is NW, mine is San Diego and couple other is the SE. I could be mistaken and apologies if I've misrepresented the facts here. Know it's a sensitive matter for all concerned. 

Denny16

So @AirBoss, how is the Air8+ performance, a slight or significant improvement over the original Air8?  SanDiego is not exactly the hottest part of California, but you get around to different parts of SoCal, where it does get hot.

That said, I grew up in the Calif. Central Valley area where it gets hot in he summer, and did not have AC.  I lived in a 1958 30-foot RV in SanDiego for several years while in college.  I was in Old Town, Santee, and Chula Vista, without AC, but again I was younger then.  We have a CoolCat in our TaB400, don’t use it much, but the last few days it would have been grand during the current heat wave here.  However, the trailer is in the shop and not here 

Had the Tab not even included an AC, we would still have purchased it.  Yes the CoolCat is better than the Air8, but the Air8 is better than nothing.  With improvements in AC technology we may even see an efficient AC that can run on a 12VDC, 500 amp hour house battery system. 
cheers

AirBoss

True, San Diego (actually Carlsbad area) is not Death Valley (thank goodness!), but we've had a heat wave recently and more on the way. Was up in Lone Pine area couple weeks ago...104 when I arrived and climbing. Not my kind of camping, that's for sure! Did Harvest Host outside Ramona and spent few days at Santee Lakes as well. Toasty comes to mind...

I did run some tests on the Air 8 Plus and have forwarded those to parties concerned, as I believe the others may have done. No doubt more to come on this in the coming weeks as those parties assess the results of our "field tests" and weigh what, if any, next steps are necessary. Lots of moving parts I imagine.  

twocutes

A couple of friends installed the air deflector on my 2020 T@B 320 CSS BDL this weekend.  Since the air inlet and outlet are right next to each other, I'm thinking it may run more efficiently, but time will tell.  The deflector definitely reduced the outside noise at the back/clam.  The deflector opening is facing towards the front of the camper.  

TNOutback

Sharon_is_SAM said:

Found this regarding the insulation:

How are your trailers insulated 

Created by: Michael Skidmore 

Modified on: Thu, 24 Oct, 2019 at 8:47 AM

---

How are your trailers insulated

For the Tab/Tag/Cirrus- The R-value of the cut insulation we place between the rafters is rated as a 3.6. We use a foiled double bubble, which lays on top. Unlike traditional insulation this product is not rated by an R-value. Bubble insulation is rated by it's reflectivity and emissivity. R-values are based on thermal resistance (how long heat takes to pass through the product), the thicker it is the higher the R-value. Bubble insulation is very thin, 1/8", but has a high reflectivity, 96%, and a low emissivity, 4%. Only 4% of radiant heat passes through the insulation, we are not trying to slow the way heat passes through the insulation but trying to slow the way heat passes through the insulation but trying to eliminate heat from passing through it. The R-value of the Azdel and block insulation combination is rated as a 4.5.

I was reading a building sciences article in a professional journal when I came across a mention of the proper installation of foil-backed wrap in residential walls and roof assemblies.  In it, it said that foil wraps are useless unless there is an air gap in front of them - a dead air space to trap the heat.  If the wrap is in contact with the outer surface, it has zero thermal resistance and simply passes the heat to the interior.  The article said many builders neglect this practice and they lose the thermal properties of the foil wrap. After reading that, I recalled this discussion on the forum and the description of the roof insulation.  I hope then, that the roof assembly is put together such that there is indeed an air gap above the foil; otherwise its intended effect is lost.

Bayliss

@TNOutback, you should send the info to nuCamp and see what they say about it.  If they are not installing the insulation in the most beneficial manner, maybe they will in the future.  Thanks for sharing what you learned.

Lloyd

Does anyone have any idea when the Air8 warranty issues are going to be officially addressed? Thanks.

Dutch061

Lloyd said:

Does anyone have any idea when the Air8 warranty issues are going to be officially addressed? Thanks.

I agree, it is way past time.... Come on NuCamp, let's hear from you instead of the rest of the people who have this problem...........

The first post by an owner with an Air8 issue was June of 2019, that is 15 months and still no fix??????

ecstatic

At this point it is obvious that this issue cannot be fixed, or that they are unwilling to fix it.  It has been swept under the rug and I am pretty disappointed in the lack of response.  IMO they dragged this out until all of our warranties ran out and so much time has passed that they can conveniently ignore it.

Denny16

The Air8 issue is being sorted by Elwell, who distributes the Air8.  From my understanding, a slightly larger Air8 is being developed/tested to replace the original Air8 units that are not cooling properly.  

grsiepka

Emailed Nucamp warranty yesterday asking for an update and got an email back saying "We are currently working on a solution and we will get back to you with more information mid next week." I'd recommend folks here do the same. Will be sure to share any info i get back. 

Dutch061

grsiepka said:

Emailed Nucamp warranty yesterday asking for an update and got an email back saying "We are currently working on a solution and we will get back to you with more information mid next week." I'd recommend folks here do the same. Will be sure to share any info i get back. 

Not trying to stir the pot but I received a similar response on August 27th that they would be contacting me the end of next week. That would have been September 4th, so almost 4 weeks ago at this time and crickets is the word in NC.

@Denny16, if you have read some of the responses from those with the Air8+ you will realize that this "slightly largerAir8" is also inadequate.

Denny16

Yes, performance seems to depend on how hot the ambient air temp. is.  Those Air8+ units are seem to be prototypes for filed testing.  So lack of response probably indicates they are coming up with a better design.  

Cheers

johnfconway

I think @Dutch061 first noticed that the Elwell Air8 units are likely rebranded Trumas.

https://www.truma.com/int/en/products/truma-air-conditioning

The two compact units look exactly like the Elwells and if you convert Watts to BTUs, it comes out. There is also a corporate relationship with Ken Elwell.

Not a big deal, just business. We already know the Elwell Air8+ is still undersized for a big bunch of the US from May through September. Not so much in Europe where these were originally designed and used. What I hope is happening is an engineering scramble to turn Air8+ into an Air8++. Just an observation and opinion.

johnfconway

Links showing corporate connections:

http://truma.net/about/news/Truma-and-Alde-Join-Forces-in-North-America

https://rvbusiness.com/the-buzz-alde-changes-norm-in-heat-systems/

Second link has Ken Elwell as CEO of Alde. Not sure how my mind changed that to "Roger"!

Lloyd

Any official word on this issue?

Verna

@Lloyd, any official word from the Air8 company will be posted here as soon as we Administrators and Moderators are notified. To date, there are no official announcements.